Guns don't kill people, gun owners kill people.

looks like that site is supporting the claim that higher ownership of guns = more gun crimes. i may be looking at that wrong though. what do you think that im claiming?

Doer said:

This is just as bad, because you can leave the key in. But, it is the fumbling in a life or death situation, that is a nightmare.



Now, think of the boondoggle, think of the money shifted by law to these lock manufacturers. OK, you are thinking.....really?

If this passes I will have only one alternative, and costs 3 - 10x a gun lock. I tell the only place for a handgun is in the Sofa. That is where you are likely to get surprised, if we go by the facts you ignore for fear.

Can I draw and fire from one of these stupid lock boxes, no? Still aren't thinking? Too bad.






That is bullshit, I don't think these devices should be forced upon people. It is a money motivated scam and makes no sense. I had not seen a trigger lock, it makes the weapon cumbersome. I would support a better engineered mechanism that is sleek and intuitive if I was buying one. I would not mandate it. I was asking you because I don't know shit about the gun itself. You and I are actually on the same page.

Click to expand...

That is bullshit, I don't think these devices should be forced upon people. It is a money motivated scam and makes no sense. I had not seen a trigger lock, it makes the weapon cumbersome. I would support a better engineered mechanism that is sleek and intuitive if I was buying one. I would not mandate it. I was asking you because I don't know shit about the gun itself. You and I are actually on the same page.

Really? The state without the Castle Doctrine, where my brother lives, is number 1 in violent crimes vs the number of loaded guns in the home = 1%.

It is County by County in Mass. and most all Sheriffs just say no. The last gun practice range closed long ago, etc. When you are sure the homeowners are pussy scared you are free to pillage and plunder.

Are you blind or ignoring?

Alabama OTH, is very near the bottom of violent crime and has similar demographic to Mass. But, loaded guns are 13%

Alabama has 13 x the loaded guns per capita than Mass. But, it is 43th in violent crime. There is your correlation.

So, I don't know you, but I hope you see the lie you are pushing off with....goes without saying....take a note.

Don't you feel weird now? I hope so.

my only point was that even if i assume that there is a positive correlation between gun owning states and non-gun owning states, that still does not merit the regulation of them. I said "it goes without saying" simply because thats what the post was positing. I conceded to the claim because that wasnt the point i was trying to make.

Statistics are the easiest way to manipulate people. USA has the most murders and the most guns. That is a fact not a statistic. It does not mean get rid of guns, it merely shows a problem and a need to reform. 10,000 deaths per year is not fear based rhetoric or liberal guilt.....we can do a lot better.

Hey, take this personal. FUCK THOSE LIES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TD] Honduras[/TD]
[TD]91.6[/TD]
[TD]7,104[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Central America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] El Salvador[/TD]
[TD]69.2[/TD]
[TD]4,308[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Central America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Ivory Coast[/TD]
[TD]56.9[/TD]
[TD]10,801[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Western Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Venezuela[/TD]
[TD]45.1[/TD]
[TD]13,080[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]South America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Belize[/TD]
[TD]41.4[/TD]
[TD]129[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Central America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Jamaica[/TD]
[TD]40.9[/TD]
[TD]1,125[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] U.S. Virgin Islands[/TD]
[TD]39.2[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Guatemala[/TD]
[TD]38.5[/TD]
[TD]5,681[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Central America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Saint Kitts and Nevis[/TD]
[TD]38.2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Zambia[/TD]
[TD]38.0[/TD]
[TD]4,710[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Uganda[/TD]
[TD]36.3[/TD]
[TD]11,373[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Malawi[/TD]
[TD]36.0[/TD]
[TD]5,039[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Lesotho[/TD]
[TD]35.2[/TD]
[TD]764[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Southern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Trinidad and Tobago[/TD]
[TD]35.2[/TD]
[TD]472[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] South Africa[/TD]
[TD]31.8[/TD]
[TD]15,940[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Southern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Colombia[/TD]
[TD]31.4[/TD]
[TD]14,746+[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]South America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Congo[/TD]
[TD]30.8[/TD]
[TD]1,180[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Middle Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Central African Republic[/TD]
[TD]29.3[/TD]
[TD]1,240[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Middle Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Bahamas[/TD]
[TD]27.4[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Puerto Rico[/TD]
[TD]26.2[/TD]
[TD]983[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Ethiopia[/TD]
[TD]25.5[/TD]
[TD]20,239[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Saint Lucia[/TD]
[TD]25.2[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Dominican Republic[/TD]
[TD]25.0[/TD]
[TD]2,513[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Tanzania[/TD]
[TD]24.5[/TD]
[TD]10,357[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Sudan[/TD]
[TD]24.2[/TD]
[TD]10,028++[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Northern Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Saint Vincent and the Grenadines[/TD]
[TD]22.9[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Guinea[/TD]
[TD]22.5[/TD]
[TD]2,152[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]Western Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Dominica[/TD]
[TD]22.1[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Caribbean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Mexico[/TD]
[TD]22.0[/TD]
[TD]26,037[SUP][8][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]Americas[/TD]
[TD]Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


You came on here to lie, so knock it off. 10K deaths? Boo Hoo. 25% of the auto deaths....grow some spine.

darrellduaner said:

gun owners dont kill people; murderers kill people. It goes without saying that in States with higher gun ownership have higher gun violence rates. The fact of the matter is that yes, guns do make it easier to kill an individual and so the amount of gun violence increases disproportionately; This does not merit the regulation of firearms in ANY way, however. What should be done is swifter, more severe punishment for gun crimes; this would be a viable solution, not restricting everyone's 'right' to have a firearm. Merely possessing ANYTHING should not be a crime, or an infraction, or whatever, and it most certainly does not warrant fines, fees, or jail time

Click to expand...

Possessing a lot of things should be a crime in my opinion. You would be comfortable with morons and explosives nextdoor?

Grow some class.....you are just mean spirited. You come on here because you can get away with talking to people the way you do.....plain and simple. If you left the house I bet you wouldn't say a thing. My spine is fine and I would show you that after school.

burgertime2010 said:

Possessing a lot of things should be a crime in my opinion. You would be comfortable with morons and explosives nextdoor?

Click to expand...

not my business. no victim, no injury, no crime. period. if i feel unsafe, i should take proper precautions or move. i have no 'right' to interfere with my neighbor's business. besides, how easy is it for morons to get explosives anyway?

burgertime2010 said:

Grow some class.....you are just mean spirited. You come on here because you can get away with talking to people the way you do.....plain and simple. If you left the house I bet you wouldn't say a thing. My spine is fine and I would show you that after school.

Click to expand...

No. I am blistering your hide as best I can from afar, for lying. You want to hide behind gentile PC-PA. 1984. Get it?

And fellow? You better not run across a controlled confrontation.

I have them most every day. It is part of my job to educate out all this PC-PA. You can't stand the words? 1984.

burgertime2010 said:

Possessing a lot of things should be a crime in my opinion. You would be comfortable with morons and explosives nextdoor?

Click to expand...

All this newspeak....would you feel comfortable? Gosh man. Seems so metrosexual....get it?

burgertime2010 said:

Grow some class.....you are just mean spirited. You come on here because you can get away with talking to people the way you do.....plain and simple. If you left the house I bet you wouldn't say a thing. My spine is fine and I would show you that after school.

Click to expand...

Lol talking about class when you shit on someone for having AS 2 pages ago? You clearly stated as FACT that higher gun ownership = higher crime, then Doer showed you that you were completely wrong. Now you're embarrassed and instead of admitting your mistake you say "you're meannnnnnn!"

darrellduaner said:

not my business. no victim, no injury, no crime. period. if i feel unsafe, i should take proper precautions or move. i have no 'right' to interfere with my neighbor's business. besides, how easy is it for morons to get explosives anyway?

Click to expand...

Law are there to protect the people not to strip you of freedom. I don't trust people. If the possession of something has only one use and that is sinister why do you support that? What good comes out of such liberty? Attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted robbery no victims, no injuries, but they are criminal. When my neighbor is too stupid to account for my welfare it victimizes me. Waiting for an explosion is not the way I play ball. The freedom to hurt yourself I support....but when it infringes on others it is oppressive.

Bombur said:

Lol talking about class when you shit on someone for having AS 2 pages ago? You clearly stated as FACT that higher gun ownership = higher crime, then Doer showed you that you were completely wrong. Now you're embarrassed and instead of admitting your mistake you say "you're meannnnnnn!"

Click to expand...

I have talked with him about it before and you are seeing out of context. You don't see the whole picture

burgertime2010 said:

I have talked with him about it before and you are seeing out of context. You don't see the whole picture

Click to expand...

Bombur sees it and you are lying again.

Doer said:

No. I am blistering your hide as best I can from afar, for lying. You want to hide behind gentile PC-PA. 1984. Get it?

And fellow? You better not run across a controlled confrontation.

I have them most every day. It is part of my job to educate out all this PC-PA. You can't stand the words? 1984.

Click to expand...

PC-PA 1984 I don't share your whatever it is you are ranting about. Just pretend I care or whatever you need to. I am enlightened and agree with you about everything you have ever said to me, you are right and I am wrong, no debate.....

burgertime2010 said:

Law are there to protect the people not to strip you of freedom. I don't trust people. If the possession of something has only one use and that is sinister why do you support that? What good comes out of such liberty? Attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted robbery no victims, no injuries, but they are criminal. When my neighbor is too stupid to account for my welfare it victimizes me. Waiting for an explosion is not the way I play ball. The freedom to hurt yourself I support....but when it infringes on others it is oppressive.

Click to expand...

conspiracy and attempts do carry with them damages. my statement of no injuries should have been 'no corpus delecti'. unfortunately, i cannot think of a justification for infringing on someones freedom that wouldnt create a nexus for 'justifying' some other infringement on a different freedom.

My best friend has AS. I know what I said sounds bad, but it is necessary. I know this disorder well.

darrellduaner said:

conspiracy and attempts do carry with them damages. my statement of no injuries should have been 'no corpus delecti'. unfortunately, i cannot think of a justification for infringing on someones freedom that wouldnt create a nexus for 'justifying' some other infringement on a different freedom.

Click to expand...

True. It is common sense that basic safety standards must exist. Any law is infringing on freedom as you define it though. A compromise has to be reached. On your island you can do whatever. This is a country of millions of people.

burgertime2010 said:

True. It is common sense that basic safety standards must exist. Any law is infringing on freedom as you define it though. A compromise has to be reached. On your island you can do whatever. This is a country of millions of people.

Click to expand...

property rights must not be infringed upon. that includes drugs, weapons, explosives, nerve gas, and anything else. if the individual has not harmed anyone, how can you justify taking his property? how could you charge him with anything?