lafemmevxka
Member
It seems to me that there's no right way to be anything at all unless you keep it private, esp in terms of religion. Even if atheism is the anti religion, people congregating to exclaim and to denounce sounds pretty religious.
Has Atheism become its own Religion?
- Thread starter sideburnsnbellbottems67
- Start date
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
So in your opinion, would people gathering for a marijuana forum be a marijuana religion?
Inviolate
Member
I would say no. Atheism is a lack of belief in a God. It is not a way of life. Simply the result of thinking what is perceived as clearly. There's no atheist code of ethics or way of the atheist. An atheist could then go on to be come a Atheist Naturalist, an Atheist Humanist, an Atheist Buddhist, an Atheist Materialist etc etc (i hate classifications personally, too many isms and schisms, not ital). One of my quotes is "Beware the Cults" They are much more subtle than you think. What you were observing was militant atheism, which has the traits of a benign cult. It is simply a result of the tendency for some to take things to extremes (it's not limited to religious folk!).
Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
The reason I would like for you to pick a type of scientist Mr. Morgentaler, is that will facilitate our communication.
If you prefer not to think about the mystical aspects of scientist flavors beyond your experience, then perhaps you pick a discipline?
Entropic Population geneticists pheel phun, don't you agree?
Do you feel comfortable touching lightly the subject?
Which type of scientist are you becoming, Mr. Morgentaler?
"The fact that the religious have a . . . "
Is an example of generalization beyond belief.
"Whatever happens after they start looking at things with a critical eye is up to them."
= deconverting Christians.
lafemmevxka
Member
You have a good point. To some, yes...I would say that any gathering where you are exclaiming (showing off your grow, smoking it, preparing it all etc) and denouncing (laws, bills, seizings) could be a form of marijuana religion. But then again...that's if you bend your mind to think of it that way. If anything I would say this is the Sunday School of the religion. It's to learn. It's only a part of it.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
One person mentioned that the lack of belief in a specific deity or deities categorizes Atheism as a non religion. While technically this is true, I ask why should Atheists pay taxes into a system that awards exemptions to religious organizations? Anton Lavey addressed this issue with the creation of a potential religion for Atheists. He established the Church of Satan in 1966. He published The Satanic Bible which explains that Satan and Hell are basically metaphors. Satanic ritual is used for psychological purposes and is optional. Violence is discouraged. Excellence and celebration of self is encouraged. Nature is revered. The political goal is to achieve true separation of church and state. Repeal all tax exemptions for religious organizations.
The only caveat is the Christian hate. Anton was deeply irritated by the hypocrisy of Christianity in particular, hence the name Satanism, which beautifully reflects the ridiculousness of manmade religion IMO.
Personally I support religious freedom as long as it does not encourage violence or interfere with free trade. I agree with Morgentaler that when a religion imposes itself on others, they can expect resistance.
The only caveat is the Christian hate. Anton was deeply irritated by the hypocrisy of Christianity in particular, hence the name Satanism, which beautifully reflects the ridiculousness of manmade religion IMO.
Personally I support religious freedom as long as it does not encourage violence or interfere with free trade. I agree with Morgentaler that when a religion imposes itself on others, they can expect resistance.
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Can I be a super-secret secular scientist too? Or whatever your calling yourself this week.
Once you establish that you're more than a canned ham extolling such interesting topics as "WTF does it take to be a flyer?", and your made up world of mystical science, maybe I'll talk about my career aspirations.
stonedroach
Active Member
Only 5% of biologists of the National Acadamey of Sciences have a belief in a God. I have "faith" that it's realy less than 5%.
sherriberry
New Member
its a global system... opposing religions... its intentional, and its controlled.
For one, its competition to see which set of lies can trick people into doing things that bring about a richer society.
second, its a great way to control populations.
third, animal instincts.. of just about every mamal... is to mimic a more powerful individual than itself or "learn from" and copy. THis brings success.
god, by definition of almost all religions is... a much more powerful intelligent being than ourselves.
christianity does a great job of asking "how do we want people to act, and therefor who does god need to be?"
back when zues was the god, a punisher, take a look at societies, people idolize power, they idolize god. Monkey see monkey do... and all they did was fight back then, war all the time.
today, we have people who are starting to realize... a difference between a monkey and a human is...
when the monkey encounters a banana shortage and starts starving, its instincts say to fight the other monkeys and kill them if necessary, if they eat the bananas too.
meanwhile, humans have the intelligence to notice the banana shortage coming, and plan ahead, and plant another banana tree.
One of the realities of life is genetic mutation, and not all mutations are favorable. Thus, every generation, you are going to have some individuals smarter than their parents, and some dumber.
here is the global system in a nutshell...
it has to remain a secret that earth cant hold infinite humans... even tho its pretty obvious if you think about it. and why is this such an important secret? because if people know killing has to occur, then they kill when they want to.
so whats the problem if killing is necessary?
the problem is if EVERYONE kills only 1 person during their life....
humanity would eventually become extinct. Think about it, 8 billion people minus 8 billion people = 0 people... if the last 2 people alive killed eachother simultaneously.
and if people kill more than one person, it just increases the rate that we all become extinct.
thus, step 1 to eternal life for humanity is... dont kill eachother
but... killing has to occur, so what happens when people realize "god says dont kill" is an impossible commandment?
to keep people from noticing the obvious about earth not holding infinite people, we have a controlled killing mechanism, and it utilizes the principle of oposing teams.
opposing teams allows a religion and a government to preach "no killing within the community... everyone born on your plot of land, or of your color, or of your religion, are good"
and the important other key is... dont let the other religion, color, or territory "corrupt" your perfect team, and this will please god, so much that if you DIE FOR IT, you will be rewarded.
this programs people to have an exception in their head to when killing can occur, and that exception is war.
we are programmed from a very young age to understand war... to be obediant to our leaders, and to die for the team.
what this all boils down to is... it allows the world leaders to control the populations like floodgates.
people naturally want to fight, especially the dumber ones who cant solve the problem (like plant another banana tree) and instead resort to their ape instincts to kill off the other individuals invading their resources to survival... like an ape.
this is where it gets cool...
i think everyone and their mom wishes for world peace, oh how great it would be...
but is the reason we dont have world peace lava monsters? boogy men? aliens attacking us?
or is the reason we dont have world peace because a human, an individual human, decides that the best solution to a problem is to get violent?
the answer is obviously yes.
now, ask yourself something...
do you hate all chinese people? or is it possible to be friends with one? do you hate all people from all other religions, or is it possible to be friends with one?
now ask yourself if you have any enemies from your neighborhood... chances are you do. any enemies that claim to be of the same religion as you? you probably do. Any enemies that are the same race as you, and you probably do.
so lets call a spade a spade... friendship is based on more important qualities than skin color, name you call god, and which side of a line you were born on...
and wouldnt it be great... if since we live on a planet where... if people have more than 2 kids per couple... then the populations will rise...
wouldnt it be great if the killing that has to occur to keep the populations in check... was focused evenly and fairly, on any and all races, any and all religions, any and all territories?
wouldnt it be great if the most easily provoked people who resort to violence were killed off first?
well, thats exactly what opposing teams and war does.
its not an exact slaughter...
but essentially... individuals who find killing a logical solution... are handed a gun, and marched to a designated territory, away from the peaceful communities... and the people are pitted against eachtoher, based on, skin color, name of god, side of line born on....
attributes that seem important to an ape... not a logical human who understands that if we are going to save people from saddam, then why are we killing those people who he forced to march at us,,, and not him?
assassination of world leaders is a war crime. Its agaisnt the law. So next time bush or obama get up and say... this leader over hear needs to be stopped.... if you think that killing his abused peons makes sense... frankly, your a human who is part of the problem.... your dna sucks, your brain doesnt work for shit...
here, heres a gun... go kill the peons that are brainwashed by the evil leader... good work ape.
and look at what happens. The peaceful people who we like being around, who dont play the blame game, and arent ingrateful for what we have... they stay home and work... and the ones who want to fight are on average... the first to be killed.
if you are going to control population.... create a system that attacks the trait of an individual that you dont like.
.. and the meek will inherit the earth.
As stated originally, the opposing teams are fully intentional... think about it... its 10 times more logical that a single team will gain momentum, and take over the whole earth...
but every time this starts to happen, the other world leaders do their best to reason with that leader... that making the entire world all one color, all one god, all one country... wont make life better.
then the wars will stop, because there will be no more enemy team.
then the populations will rise...
and eventually, it will dawn on all of humanity that killing has to occur, and instead of the violents getting killed off.... now it goes the other way... the violents prey on the peaceful... and with a clear conscience, and no fear of god, for if god wanted killing to not happen, he would have made earth expand at an incredible rate to hold all population increases.
and then it all goes back to blaming god, and now god is percieved as a dick again for making killing have to occur, and then the monkey see monkey do humans become dicks because they think god is one... and then life goes to shit.
religions, are evolving lies. Its a darwinism of religion itself... whichever religion can make people act nice in the communities, and respond to commands to kill themselves off at the drop of a hat....
this is the world leaders main goal. However, the world leaders dont agree on which religions are the most effective, and thats fine, it fits into the opposing team mechanism...
so they allow eachother to perpetuate lies.
think about it... every religion says its true, and theres probably 20 of them. That means at most, 5% of the population has truth. And 95% of all population has to be functioning on pure bullshit as we speak. Thats the fact.
so like it or not... lies DO work... just some better than others.
and the other biggest illusion of religion... this concept of "perfection"
perfection was not created here in this universe by whoever god is if there is a god.
if i ask you for the pefect car, you might say a corolla... becuase it gets the best gas milage.
top fuel dragster because it goes the fastest in a straight line
indy car because it goes the fastest in a loop
pickup because it can pull a boat.
In this world... there are laws, and there are tradeoffs. There will never be a perfect car, just more and more variety of cars and what they are capable of.
same goes for humans. We mutate farther and farther away from eachtother. Wouldnt it be nice to be on a planet with people, who have vast different capabilities, and specific strengths where you have weakness and visa versa...
and have those people appreciate youre differences and you theirs?
the last thing those people will do is pick up a gun and want to kill you because you are different...
and thats what the opposing teams and war generates... its a trap for the ingrateful dumbasses.
think about it... if you are happy with life... you dont want to go to war.
if you see the glass half full and have the intelligence to understand variety, and understand that life is a gift, and maybe you dont know everything, and maybe you should settle for less and give tomorrow a chance because you might learn something you didnt know....
the last thing you do is pick up a gun.
you want to be on a planet with 8 billion who resort to violence?
of you want to be on a planet with 8 billion who work hard, and give eachother a chance?
the global system is cloaked... by individuals with weak brains... and their ignorance to appreciate what is going on.
war is not a bad thing. War is a great thing. People who want to get violent are the bad thing. War is keeping them in a chain of obedience and command, and tricking them into mowing eachother down in a designated area away from the peaceful communities.
this is all made possible by the preservation of opposing teams.
world leaders dont hate eachtoher. They hate the masses. World leaders have everythign in common with eachtoher... they got off their asses, and rose to power, and tried to help their team... instead of sit on their couch and parrot cnn and fox news hosts who hate life, and blame everything on the other team.
people who take responsibility
and people who point blame.
world leaders are like shaq, kobe, and lebron... they might be on opposing teams, but they like hanging out with eachtoher more than a guy who doenst play basketball.
world leaders have eachtoehrs backs... and keep any one team from winning out.
when i say world leaders, i dont necessarily mean the ones in the spotlight.
there is a sysetm of persuasion and control in which they can control the presidents, prime ministers and kings you think are in charge.
people have no clue how good we have it... they wish for eternity, but they never fathom eternity in pitch blackness with nothing. Eternity is kept interesting with variety and abundance. Variety and abundance are made possible by infinite mutation and the lack of 1 perfection ever existing. We have a life that is interesting until the end due to the fact that mutation occurs.
and yet we dream of perfection, and think its heaven.... and think this 100 years of life is torcher.
religion is like 3rd grade. Its not bad. it gets you to 4th grade. Its the people who want to believe they know it all and have an all powerful ally, and hes got their back... so they dont need to progress to 4th grade...
these people are the problem. not third grade. not religion.
i think there is a god, and more powerful beings than ourselves... but i think that the vast majority of humanity has created an unrealitic image of what god is and takes away from the true gifts weve been given.
we didnt earn life. I didnt build earth. I didnt invent gravity. but here i am, enjoying all of it...
and we look forward to a "better" place called heaven?
it is no different than a 16 year old girl getting a car as a gift and complaining that she has to change the oil and that it needed a new water pump after a year...
instead of appreciating that she didnt have to work to earn the 20,000 dollars it took to purchase the car.
who do you think parents want to buy another car for, the daughter who throws it in their face every time something goes wrong with it,
or the daughter who thanks them, and knows shits gonna happen, and appreciates that she doenst have to work to buy it, only to maintain it...
people think god owes them a heaven.
rest assured, if there is a god... he doesnt owe us shit. If this was the last life we ever got... id suggest growing up to the point where you appreciate this gift that you didnt have to work a day for... but simply get to show up and enjoy it and maintain it.
people preach against religions because they think if they can unify humanity, it will stop the wars.
what they dont realize is... things are about as good as they can be... with opposing teams.... they jsut lack the imagination to fully fathom the alternatives.
... thats enough for tonight
For one, its competition to see which set of lies can trick people into doing things that bring about a richer society.
second, its a great way to control populations.
third, animal instincts.. of just about every mamal... is to mimic a more powerful individual than itself or "learn from" and copy. THis brings success.
god, by definition of almost all religions is... a much more powerful intelligent being than ourselves.
christianity does a great job of asking "how do we want people to act, and therefor who does god need to be?"
back when zues was the god, a punisher, take a look at societies, people idolize power, they idolize god. Monkey see monkey do... and all they did was fight back then, war all the time.
today, we have people who are starting to realize... a difference between a monkey and a human is...
when the monkey encounters a banana shortage and starts starving, its instincts say to fight the other monkeys and kill them if necessary, if they eat the bananas too.
meanwhile, humans have the intelligence to notice the banana shortage coming, and plan ahead, and plant another banana tree.
One of the realities of life is genetic mutation, and not all mutations are favorable. Thus, every generation, you are going to have some individuals smarter than their parents, and some dumber.
here is the global system in a nutshell...
it has to remain a secret that earth cant hold infinite humans... even tho its pretty obvious if you think about it. and why is this such an important secret? because if people know killing has to occur, then they kill when they want to.
so whats the problem if killing is necessary?
the problem is if EVERYONE kills only 1 person during their life....
humanity would eventually become extinct. Think about it, 8 billion people minus 8 billion people = 0 people... if the last 2 people alive killed eachother simultaneously.
and if people kill more than one person, it just increases the rate that we all become extinct.
thus, step 1 to eternal life for humanity is... dont kill eachother
but... killing has to occur, so what happens when people realize "god says dont kill" is an impossible commandment?
to keep people from noticing the obvious about earth not holding infinite people, we have a controlled killing mechanism, and it utilizes the principle of oposing teams.
opposing teams allows a religion and a government to preach "no killing within the community... everyone born on your plot of land, or of your color, or of your religion, are good"
and the important other key is... dont let the other religion, color, or territory "corrupt" your perfect team, and this will please god, so much that if you DIE FOR IT, you will be rewarded.
this programs people to have an exception in their head to when killing can occur, and that exception is war.
we are programmed from a very young age to understand war... to be obediant to our leaders, and to die for the team.
what this all boils down to is... it allows the world leaders to control the populations like floodgates.
people naturally want to fight, especially the dumber ones who cant solve the problem (like plant another banana tree) and instead resort to their ape instincts to kill off the other individuals invading their resources to survival... like an ape.
this is where it gets cool...
i think everyone and their mom wishes for world peace, oh how great it would be...
but is the reason we dont have world peace lava monsters? boogy men? aliens attacking us?
or is the reason we dont have world peace because a human, an individual human, decides that the best solution to a problem is to get violent?
the answer is obviously yes.
now, ask yourself something...
do you hate all chinese people? or is it possible to be friends with one? do you hate all people from all other religions, or is it possible to be friends with one?
now ask yourself if you have any enemies from your neighborhood... chances are you do. any enemies that claim to be of the same religion as you? you probably do. Any enemies that are the same race as you, and you probably do.
so lets call a spade a spade... friendship is based on more important qualities than skin color, name you call god, and which side of a line you were born on...
and wouldnt it be great... if since we live on a planet where... if people have more than 2 kids per couple... then the populations will rise...
wouldnt it be great if the killing that has to occur to keep the populations in check... was focused evenly and fairly, on any and all races, any and all religions, any and all territories?
wouldnt it be great if the most easily provoked people who resort to violence were killed off first?
well, thats exactly what opposing teams and war does.
its not an exact slaughter...
but essentially... individuals who find killing a logical solution... are handed a gun, and marched to a designated territory, away from the peaceful communities... and the people are pitted against eachtoher, based on, skin color, name of god, side of line born on....
attributes that seem important to an ape... not a logical human who understands that if we are going to save people from saddam, then why are we killing those people who he forced to march at us,,, and not him?
assassination of world leaders is a war crime. Its agaisnt the law. So next time bush or obama get up and say... this leader over hear needs to be stopped.... if you think that killing his abused peons makes sense... frankly, your a human who is part of the problem.... your dna sucks, your brain doesnt work for shit...
here, heres a gun... go kill the peons that are brainwashed by the evil leader... good work ape.
and look at what happens. The peaceful people who we like being around, who dont play the blame game, and arent ingrateful for what we have... they stay home and work... and the ones who want to fight are on average... the first to be killed.
if you are going to control population.... create a system that attacks the trait of an individual that you dont like.
.. and the meek will inherit the earth.
As stated originally, the opposing teams are fully intentional... think about it... its 10 times more logical that a single team will gain momentum, and take over the whole earth...
but every time this starts to happen, the other world leaders do their best to reason with that leader... that making the entire world all one color, all one god, all one country... wont make life better.
then the wars will stop, because there will be no more enemy team.
then the populations will rise...
and eventually, it will dawn on all of humanity that killing has to occur, and instead of the violents getting killed off.... now it goes the other way... the violents prey on the peaceful... and with a clear conscience, and no fear of god, for if god wanted killing to not happen, he would have made earth expand at an incredible rate to hold all population increases.
and then it all goes back to blaming god, and now god is percieved as a dick again for making killing have to occur, and then the monkey see monkey do humans become dicks because they think god is one... and then life goes to shit.
religions, are evolving lies. Its a darwinism of religion itself... whichever religion can make people act nice in the communities, and respond to commands to kill themselves off at the drop of a hat....
this is the world leaders main goal. However, the world leaders dont agree on which religions are the most effective, and thats fine, it fits into the opposing team mechanism...
so they allow eachother to perpetuate lies.
think about it... every religion says its true, and theres probably 20 of them. That means at most, 5% of the population has truth. And 95% of all population has to be functioning on pure bullshit as we speak. Thats the fact.
so like it or not... lies DO work... just some better than others.
and the other biggest illusion of religion... this concept of "perfection"
perfection was not created here in this universe by whoever god is if there is a god.
if i ask you for the pefect car, you might say a corolla... becuase it gets the best gas milage.
top fuel dragster because it goes the fastest in a straight line
indy car because it goes the fastest in a loop
pickup because it can pull a boat.
In this world... there are laws, and there are tradeoffs. There will never be a perfect car, just more and more variety of cars and what they are capable of.
same goes for humans. We mutate farther and farther away from eachtother. Wouldnt it be nice to be on a planet with people, who have vast different capabilities, and specific strengths where you have weakness and visa versa...
and have those people appreciate youre differences and you theirs?
the last thing those people will do is pick up a gun and want to kill you because you are different...
and thats what the opposing teams and war generates... its a trap for the ingrateful dumbasses.
think about it... if you are happy with life... you dont want to go to war.
if you see the glass half full and have the intelligence to understand variety, and understand that life is a gift, and maybe you dont know everything, and maybe you should settle for less and give tomorrow a chance because you might learn something you didnt know....
the last thing you do is pick up a gun.
you want to be on a planet with 8 billion who resort to violence?
of you want to be on a planet with 8 billion who work hard, and give eachother a chance?
the global system is cloaked... by individuals with weak brains... and their ignorance to appreciate what is going on.
war is not a bad thing. War is a great thing. People who want to get violent are the bad thing. War is keeping them in a chain of obedience and command, and tricking them into mowing eachother down in a designated area away from the peaceful communities.
this is all made possible by the preservation of opposing teams.
world leaders dont hate eachtoher. They hate the masses. World leaders have everythign in common with eachtoher... they got off their asses, and rose to power, and tried to help their team... instead of sit on their couch and parrot cnn and fox news hosts who hate life, and blame everything on the other team.
people who take responsibility
and people who point blame.
world leaders are like shaq, kobe, and lebron... they might be on opposing teams, but they like hanging out with eachtoher more than a guy who doenst play basketball.
world leaders have eachtoehrs backs... and keep any one team from winning out.
when i say world leaders, i dont necessarily mean the ones in the spotlight.
there is a sysetm of persuasion and control in which they can control the presidents, prime ministers and kings you think are in charge.
people have no clue how good we have it... they wish for eternity, but they never fathom eternity in pitch blackness with nothing. Eternity is kept interesting with variety and abundance. Variety and abundance are made possible by infinite mutation and the lack of 1 perfection ever existing. We have a life that is interesting until the end due to the fact that mutation occurs.
and yet we dream of perfection, and think its heaven.... and think this 100 years of life is torcher.
religion is like 3rd grade. Its not bad. it gets you to 4th grade. Its the people who want to believe they know it all and have an all powerful ally, and hes got their back... so they dont need to progress to 4th grade...
these people are the problem. not third grade. not religion.
i think there is a god, and more powerful beings than ourselves... but i think that the vast majority of humanity has created an unrealitic image of what god is and takes away from the true gifts weve been given.
we didnt earn life. I didnt build earth. I didnt invent gravity. but here i am, enjoying all of it...
and we look forward to a "better" place called heaven?
it is no different than a 16 year old girl getting a car as a gift and complaining that she has to change the oil and that it needed a new water pump after a year...
instead of appreciating that she didnt have to work to earn the 20,000 dollars it took to purchase the car.
who do you think parents want to buy another car for, the daughter who throws it in their face every time something goes wrong with it,
or the daughter who thanks them, and knows shits gonna happen, and appreciates that she doenst have to work to buy it, only to maintain it...
people think god owes them a heaven.
rest assured, if there is a god... he doesnt owe us shit. If this was the last life we ever got... id suggest growing up to the point where you appreciate this gift that you didnt have to work a day for... but simply get to show up and enjoy it and maintain it.
people preach against religions because they think if they can unify humanity, it will stop the wars.
what they dont realize is... things are about as good as they can be... with opposing teams.... they jsut lack the imagination to fully fathom the alternatives.
... thats enough for tonight
yellowrain53
Well-Known Member
holy crap.....please tell me you cut and paste that......
Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
How about super-secret secular population geneticists?
The Reason Being I would like to discuss a few points that require you to keep a bit of that part of your mind focused.
"Someone's getting angry now, and talking in full sentences. I see a trend here. "
The trend I see is that by engaging me you are beginning to progress down a slippery intellectual slope of mystical logic rather than just throwing internet stones and closet hiding.
A Mystical Scientist is one that accepts the reality of and is fascinated by the Mystery of all the cool phenomena in the known multiverse.
Without disclosing any personal information, Mr. Morgentaler, may I ask you again what is your favorite scientific discipline?
"A survey conducted between 2005 and 2007 by Elaine Ecklund of University at Buffalo, The State University of New York and funded by the Templeton Foundation found that over 60% of natural and social science professors are atheists or agnostics. When asked whether they believed in God, nearly 34% answered "I do not believe in God" and about 30% answering "I do not know if there is a God and there is no way to find out,"[63] According to the same survey, "[m]any scientists see themselves as having a spirituality not attached to a particular religious tradition."[64] In further analysis, published in 2007, Ecklund and Christopher Scheitle conclude that "the assumption that becoming a scientist necessarily leads to loss of religion is untenable" and that "t appears that those from non-religious backgrounds disproportionately self-select into scientific professions. This may reflect the fact that there is tension between the religious tenets of some groups and the theories and methods of particular sciences and it contributes to the large number of non-religious scientists."[65]"
The Reason Being I would like to discuss a few points that require you to keep a bit of that part of your mind focused.
"Someone's getting angry now, and talking in full sentences. I see a trend here. "
The trend I see is that by engaging me you are beginning to progress down a slippery intellectual slope of mystical logic rather than just throwing internet stones and closet hiding.
A Mystical Scientist is one that accepts the reality of and is fascinated by the Mystery of all the cool phenomena in the known multiverse.
Without disclosing any personal information, Mr. Morgentaler, may I ask you again what is your favorite scientific discipline?
"A survey conducted between 2005 and 2007 by Elaine Ecklund of University at Buffalo, The State University of New York and funded by the Templeton Foundation found that over 60% of natural and social science professors are atheists or agnostics. When asked whether they believed in God, nearly 34% answered "I do not believe in God" and about 30% answering "I do not know if there is a God and there is no way to find out,"[63] According to the same survey, "[m]any scientists see themselves as having a spirituality not attached to a particular religious tradition."[64] In further analysis, published in 2007, Ecklund and Christopher Scheitle conclude that "the assumption that becoming a scientist necessarily leads to loss of religion is untenable" and that "t appears that those from non-religious backgrounds disproportionately self-select into scientific professions. This may reflect the fact that there is tension between the religious tenets of some groups and the theories and methods of particular sciences and it contributes to the large number of non-religious scientists."[65]"
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
GT, didn't we have this discussion awhile ago?
Agnosticism is not a middle ground between atheism and theism. It asks a different epistemological question. Theism and atheism deal with belief, agnosticism and gnosticism deal with ability to know. I don't know a single atheist that is not also agnostic. Many theists are also gnostic, they 'know' there is a god. Many theists are also agnostic, they certainly believe, but admit that no one can really know. That is the position that I and most atheists I encounter also take, that although I don't believer there is sufficient evidence in support of a god, there is no way to know for sure.
It is fallacious to assume atheists are all strong atheists (they claim they know there is no god) rather than the extreme doubt that a weak atheist position holds (they will say they believe there isn't a god but make no claim about KNOWING there is none). Just like science can never prove anything, it only deals with degrees of certainty, atheists generally will admit there is no way to absolutely prove that a god doesn't exist but the evidence that there actually is one is non-existent so the default position for any logical, rational individual is that there is not one.
You call yourself an agnostic but that doesn't fully describe your beliefs. Do you personally think there is a god? Do you think there is evidence to support the position on the existence of a god? To say you are agnostic without answering those questions and then make the claim that yours is really the only valid stance is untrue and a cop-out.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
What is religion. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader gray areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :
1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
8. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
9. A social group bound together by the above.
To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion? http://atheism.about.com/library/...ligion.htm
1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
8. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
9. A social group bound together by the above.
To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion? http://atheism.about.com/library/...ligion.htm
Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
A flexible imaginary boundary exists separating knowledge and belief.
"The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of mystic, revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality.[5] "
"The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of mystic, revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality.[5] "
doc111
Well-Known Member
How about super-secret secular population geneticists?
The Reason Being I would like to discuss a few points that require you to keep a bit of that part of your mind focused.
"Someone's getting angry now, and talking in full sentences. I see a trend here. "
The trend I see is that by engaging me you are beginning to progress down a slippery intellectual slope of mystical logic rather than just throwing internet stones and closet hiding.
A Mystical Scientist is one that accepts the reality of and is fascinated by the Mystery of all the cool phenomena in the known multiverse.
Without disclosing any personal information, Mr. Morgentaler, may I ask you again what is your favorite scientific discipline? Mine is astrophysics. I kinda like chemistry as well though. Biology is kinda fun. I know I'm not morgan but I think science is the coolest!
"A survey conducted between 2005 and 2007 by Elaine Ecklund of University at Buffalo, The State University of New York and funded by the Templeton Foundation found that over 60% of natural and social science professors are atheists or agnostics. When asked whether they believed in God, nearly 34% answered "I do not believe in God" and about 30% answering "I do not know if there is a God and there is no way to find out,"[63] According to the same survey, "[m]any scientists see themselves as having a spirituality not attached to a particular religious tradition."[64] In further analysis, published in 2007, Ecklund and Christopher Scheitle conclude that "the assumption that becoming a scientist necessarily leads to loss of religion is untenable" and that "t appears that those from non-religious backgrounds disproportionately self-select into scientific professions. This may reflect the fact that there is tension between the religious tenets of some groups and the theories and methods of particular sciences and it contributes to the large number of non-religious scientists."[65]"
.................
doc111
Well-Known Member
Wow! That was quite a rant! Wars will not cease as long as different groups have different agendas. It's pretty much that simple. And in a world where natural resources are becoming more scarce wars will more than likely increase in the future. It's one of the sad realities of life I'm afraid.
Woodstock.Hippie
New Member
"It's one of the sad realities of life I'm afraid. "
That and Zombie babies.
"That and Zombie babies.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Sad yes, reality? Not so sure."It's one of the sad realities of life I'm afraid.
That and Zombie babies.
8deez8
Active Member
What about vampires and witches?..
Vampires are physically addicted to adrenaline. They are real.
You poke at the personal experiences had that bring souls to Christ. Each Christian has his own testimony to share, mostly all sharing the basic moment of humility and asking for God with sincerity.
They are not evidence-based and are therefore not valid.
What kind of God would He be if you had to be smart enough to find the evidence?
In other words, if everyone is not given equal opportunity, he would not be the perfect God He is.
And the evidence will be more than obvious when people disappear and your godless world revolution is realized and the leader signs a 7 yr treaty with Israel.
I bet even then you will turn away because your tired soul just doesn't want to hear it.
sherriberry
New Member
And in a world where natural resources are becoming more scarce wars will more than likely increase in the future. It's one of the sad realities of life I'm afraid.
correct, it is a sad reality of life.
and the problem is we live on a planet with many people who focus in on the bad, instead of appreciate all the good.
And these things you mentioned, are not mans fault, so who will the blamers blame?
no one but the being who supposedly has all the power to change it... god.
and if people start blaming god for these harsh realities, it will become the status quo that god is a dick, he doenst really care about us, hes going to let us suffer.
now, and the christians you know, and every other religion... that are nice people and turn the other cheek because they believe god will make it up to them 10 fold in heaven... if they just ENDURE the bad shit that happens here on earth...
they would no longer be this nice if they thought god was a dick, and wont be making anything up to them later.
if telling a lie, makes it 75 degrees out... would you tell it when its 3 degress and freezing? why not?
temperature is enviorment
8 billion people we interact with in a day... are also enviroment.
if telling a lie made those people more pleasent to be around, would you tell it?
heres another harsh reality of life... everyone has a limit to what they can understand.
if you take a dog to a vet, the last thing you are going to do is make the dog march up to the operating table on its own free will, knowing its about to be cut or given a shot.
instead, you cater to the dogs lack of understanding, and you bribe it with a treat it understands, and you stay its friend, and pretend the vet is the bad guy, and you apologize for taking the dog there, and you try to make it up to the dog later for enduring the pain.
the reality is, you have the intelligence to see the good in the vet... the dog doesnt understand the good, only feels the pain, not understanding the long term benefits that come.
such is humanity, and we have people with much lower iq's than others.
the people with the lower iq's, you can debate with them all day long, just like a dog, but in the end, they are still going to see the glass half empty and think that the world leaders, and god, are both dicks.
and this is why instead of force feed people to appreciate the reality of life, and the gifts we have been given...
we settle for "ok, fine, please ENDURE this horrible circumstance, and god will bless us later"
we add in an imaginary friend that replaces simple cause and effect.
"If you endure this shot from the vet, god will bless you by making your disease go away"
except, instead of tell the dog that, we tell humanity that, and then they get up at church and comment on how when they follow the 10 commandments, their life is better.
instead of realizing, its 10 things that bring more happiness in the long run if you can face the pain in this instant when your ape instincts say to do otherwise.
focusing on the real problems, doesnt make humanity appreciate life anymore.
keeping people sheltered from the real problems, so that it doesnt interfere with their concept of a nice god.... is what we want to do, because it makes people happy in the now.
now is all we have control over. who cares if people are ignorant. If they want truth, they can dig for it and earn it.
otherwise, rest assured there are pre designed lies to allign with your ape instincts, and trick you into getting life right, or eliminating your dna from the gene pool.
people who understand religion dont want it destroyed. Everyone has free agency to appreciate the morals of religion, just like the morals of christmas and santa.
if you dont think lies are a good thing, then dont tell your children about santa, or the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy.
but chances are you will, because you know the lies are there to help them have fun while learning important morals to life.
same goes for false religions and political propoganda. They are lies people enjoy hearing... and at any time, a person can prove they arent a fool, by maturing and rising above the bullshit.
It is a filter.
It keeps the losers having fun as they kill eachtoher off without them noticing whats going on.
its what the movie the matrix was refereing to. Higher ups in the cia know everything that i just said, so does skull and bones, so did the free masons in our countries developments.
they will lie... the cia bold face admits they lie and keep secrets. But they also care about humanity, and try to do the best they can with the cards weve been delt.
the masses are whiney bitches who dont want to help, but just want to complain and point blame instead of peacefully try their best, to make this world a better place by controlling the only person they can control... themselves.
instead they yell, and rant about the other team... and the other team is nothing more than a different color, on the different side of a line, wiht a different name for a made up god.
and they wonder why the world leaders dont mind to see them die.
its blatent stupidity if you stop and think about it.
and if you want humanity to get smarter, its been proven that intelligence is genetic... children with smart parents have a better chance at being smart in that specific area as well.
and if something is genetic... killing off and keeping the unwanted trait from reproducing and influencing the nect generation... is the only solution.
another harsh reality of life...
people cant handle the truth... the truth makes them mad because it pops their ignorant bubble of pride that they have that their team is the best, thus making them better.
its what a peacock wants to hear... "no need for improvement, you are on the winning team, you are gods favorite, in the end everythign will be okay"
thats not truth. Truth is there is no such thing as perfection. But there is such thing as infinite progression.
So quit sucking on the opium that joining the right team is goign to solve all your problems, and start focussing on improving your self to where you can solve your problems, or you make friends with and bring something positive to the table to others who can help you solve your problems as well.
the fox news cnn whining is getting old.
2012 will be a hot one, the masses are proving their inability to reason, and their capability of complaining about things that arent even important.... more and more by the day.
if you think the world leaders arent going to take full advantage of a prophesy date like 2012, to do a lot of killing, and re instill peoples faith in a higher power...
you are poorly mistaken.
Its easy to let a war begin...
the chore is keeping it from happening day in and day out.
the people on this planet want to fight about stupid shit instead of get off their ass and solve the problem peacefully.
these people are the problem.
these people are going to get what their ignorant ape imaginations wish for.