Hasbro's Desert/Outdoor/Mandala/ Fox Farm/Organic/ Grow Thread

[Hasbroh]

Hi,

Might as well make this my grow thread.

First time grower here. I'm waiting for my Mandala Seeds Krystallica,Rishi Kush, and three free seeds to arrive. Really excited to finally get started!

I'm looking for some input re. soil and beds. Since I'm near Tucson (110+ degrees) I think a raised bed will offer the best soil temps as compared to pots. The Krystallica is supposedley very desert tough, not sure about the Rishi Kush as it is new.

I'm thinking in the 4'x8'x12" deep bed size or thereabouts, which will be about $250.00 with Fox Farm Happy Frog/Ocean Forest and maybe some extra worm castings. Put in about 5 or 6 seedlings and thin out any males or sex in pots first?. I also need to keep them under about 5 or 6'. Also thinking of using shade cloth.

Opinions on bed size? Depth? Shape? Soil ratios? Remember, Mandala plants don't like additives and extra fert. Thanks in advance, love this forum.

 

[Hasbroh]

Sorry for lack of updates. Photobucket won't download from My Pictures on my new computer. Will get it figured out.

I was dissapointed with the lack of feedback to my queeries re. desert growing but I guess there aren't a lot of people trying to grow in 110 degree conditions, understandably. I chickened out last year. I have found a couple of local guys with strong outdoor desert experience that also grow organically and have been very helpful. Hopefully this thread will help others that are reluctant to try desert growing.

I'm going with:
About 25 bags of Happy Frog Potting Soil,
two bags of HF Soil Conditioner,
two bags of Wiggle Worm worm castings.
Bags of a local compost to top coat when 100 degrees approaches and after plants are 4 or 5 weeks old.
Teas for the fertilization. Will make a really neat brewer with one of those blue water bottles.
Will most likely make my own soil after this grow. I wanted a controlled definable soil to keep things simple and more predictable.

The bed has increased to about 5x9x12-16" so at least 45 cubic feet.
Galvanized poles and stretched wire for security and holding shade cloth on sides and top.
Diamondback and Mojave rattlesnakes for security (bet that got your attention!!!). More on that later, lol.
Flower/shrub bed in front for camoflage.

3,5, or 7 plants - still not sure yet, on a triangulated pattern.
Will pot up to 1 gal. pots and move outdoors daily and set in planter with soil around containers to keep roots cool until ready to plant in bed.

That's all I can think of. Again, sorry about no pics, will rectify soon.

Haz

 

[delta9tetra]

From my experience, the 2008 edition of Krystalica thoroughly enjoyed the heat. It seemed to thrive in it. A friend and I had two 600's in a small closet with only a box fan for exhaust and it loved it. I can't wait to see your outdoor Krystali. We plan to put the new 2012 edition out this year. I've never ordered direct from Mike and Jasmin before. Please let us know how it went.

 

[Hasbroh]

Still haven't figured out how to download the pics to my laptop or to get Photobucket to play nice but taking lot's of them.

End of day two, put eight seeds (four Krystallica/four Rishi Kush) in Light Warrior. However many females I get will go in the planter. Even two will be fine. Picked and dug to the 8" level tonight. 4-8" to go.

Installed Growonix 100 reverse osmosis two days ago. Brought ppm down from 492 ppm to 23 ppm. Tap pH is very high and used pH DOWN to bring it down to about 6.5.

Oh, decided to use CocoPure coir fiber as a top dressing to help insulate and cool the soil. Will use my laser thermometer to do a temp comparison.

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 3 1/2

Four of eight were up this morning, seven of eight this afternoon. As of day four (tonight, 96 hrs.) tallest one is a touch over one inch. True leaves are out on all four Krystallica, one of Rishi Kush. Mandala said they would pop in 3-5 days and they did. Very pleased! Taking pics.

Area under HPS lamp is about 95 degrees with fan on. Soil surface is 75-77 degrees. Footcandles about 900. Not sure about how high I should be going yet but it will get much hotter. Any suggestions? With lights off room is 85 and will drop to about 70-75.



Day 4

Last seedling is up this morning. Put them under hps for first two hours, then under partial shade at 900 candles for a couple more, then under shade with 2,000+. Watered a small amount from the bottom this afternoon.

If I get about four females out of the eight I might put two in the outdoor planter and two indoors just for a quicker learning curve and a sooner harvest from the indoor plants. Then grow another batch and plant two more outside in a few months so they don't grow as big. Krystallica wants to be about 9' and I really need to stay below 5'. Hate to keep it that small as the head bud supposedly gets very large but so do the side buds.

Here's Mandala's sight. It's excellant and very informative. http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Catalogue/Krystalica-2012

Day Six, 4/11

Will only be about 80 degrees today. Winds are pretty rough, 20-30 mph. I have bricks holding the little seedling tray down. I figure they better get tough now not later! Plus it helps to keep plant shorter. I'm trying to water as little as possible but with the little soil, heat, low humidity, and wind, they dry out pretty fast. Gave each plant about 1/4 tablespoon this morning and will give them their first saturation watering (1 tablespoon) around noon. The constant wind and fan has kept them at the same height as yesterday, around 1 1/2-1 3/4" (40-45 mm), that's a good thing. A little trivia; in college (many moons ago) I did a research paper on wind movement of plants and it's affects. In a still air greenhouse shaking plants for 30 seconds a day kept them almost exactly half the height of the non shaken plants. The study also used windy testing with similar results. So maybe I can keep them much shorter by doing the same. We'll see, lol.

Water was closer to 7 pH I realized and dropped it to 6.5 today.

Washed and bleached some used Monrovia 1 gallon pots to be ready. After sexing in these pots they will go into the ground. Some will go into larger pots and grown indoors, I think.

Noticed one of the eight wasn't moving with the sun (phototropism). Watered and it eventually started moving. No lack of turgidity but it was perhaps too dry to respond? Too much free time today...

Day 7, 4/12

These little plants really like the heat. Cold front moved in last night and they have hardly grown. Might just leave them inside where it's toasty untill it warms up again.

Three Krystallica are 2", one is 1 1/2". I'm pretty sure the little one was the one that sprouted a day later than the rest. Rishi Kush are all 1 1/2".

 

[Hasbroh]

Reserved for pics.

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 9, 4/14

Cold and windy, had to move them in all day. Wind bent one yesterday, flopping back and forth at the base. Figured it was a gonner but wired it up and seems to be fine. Went up to 24 hours lighting last night.

Have the lamp at about 3,000 candlepower on the leaves, leaf temps around 90, soil surface around 80. Can I move lamp closer?

Goofed and started plants in the little trays, should have started in 4" pots. Easier to keep moist and since Mandala suggested planting seed .6"/15mm deep, the root growth area is very small - about 1/2 the depth of the soil. Annoying. Will probably shift tomorrow so roots can develop down. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[kamut]

Are these somewhere you can easily get to them, like a backyard. I think that makes a big difference in outdoor-are we talking TLC or every plant for herself?
I would consider a shade cloth to give the plants 75% sun or something-the sun is really direct where you are. I too live in the desert-in NM, but I don't do outdoor.
What is this guard rattlesnake? Is he on a leash or what?
I would consider some coco coir or something real absorbent in your soil for water retention. Even those plastic pellets that expand, if you will have any difficulty getting water to them on time.
I would think holes in the ground would be cooler than a raised bed-and hold water better.

 

[Hasbroh]

Yeah, it's very accessable and the bed actually is sunk 8"+ with the dug out soil used in a surrounding planter of 4", so it is fully ground level. I'm going to use shade cloth on the sides and top, the top being removable. Coco coir will be used as a mulch.

 

[Budbonics]

Im south of Tucson and the heat isnt the problem. Its the cold desert nights. I use happy frog organic and worm castings on the top of Ocean forest soil. And i just water. I am.still researching teas and brewing them, so i just use plain ol water. But im using mexican bag seed I have no good genetics. Keep it up though, youlook like you know what you are doing. You could try Subcools soil mix its amazing. Sometimes on hot days ill foliar feed. That seems to cool them down. Im also on a mountainside so i get good sun and a nice cool breeze. The last few days of weather have been terrible.

 

[Hasbroh]

A cold frame or a simple pvc hoop would work for you for cold evenings. Be careful with foliar feeding in the summer sun as it will burn the foliage. I can't use Subcool's mix as Mandala seeds require no fert for 3 or 4 weeks and very little afterwards although I'd bet your mix with the Ocean Forest as the next layer would work. I have a horticulture background but haven't grown anything from seed since college so I'm just a newb. Good luck with your grow. Cure that bag weed well and you might have some decent stuff, better than the bag you got it from!

 

[Budbonics]

Thanks for the tips man very much appreciated

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 10, 4/14/12

Spent a very gratifying hour or two re-potting to 4". The roots were perfect, just starting to circle at the bottom. Used 4" instead of 1 gal. pots as they fit on an eight pack tray and fit easilly under the HPS light. That will make it easier to daily transfer plants from garage to outdoors(24/0 lighting). 2 parts worm castings to 10 parts Happy Frog potting soil. Budponics, I did one Rishi Kush with some Ocean Forest on the bottom just for kicks. Took pics but still haven't fixed the computer /photo deal yet.

Just put anti uv/glare film on the garage windows. Ten little windows let in a lot of heat. Hopefully it won't reach 110 degrees this summer in there!

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 13, 4/18

Window film does cut the temps in the garage but at 8:00 pm it's 88 degrees in there and it's only April...

It's amazing how much faster these little plants grow outside compared to under the lamps. In an hour or two I can see a difference outside with partial shade, barely anything in the garage after the entire evening. Need to get them out a little earlier as they would get a couple more hours outside. Still a little nervous going full sun all day and it's hitting the high 90s this weekend.

I was going to use cocoa fiber for a top dressing mulch but have been using the leaf stalks from a palo verde (Cercidium 'Desert Museum') around the 4" pots. It's like a fine pine straw, blondish in color. Very fluffy and easy to work with (pictures coming).

Pretty tedious notes but trying to give as much info as possible for future desert growers.

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 16

Aside from one plant cupping all the plants are perfect. I think the cupping is attributed to the fact that this is the same plant that was bending back and forth in the wind on two seperate occassions. Perhaps the vascular system has been compromised and cannot respirate efficiently enough? I imagine if there is "scar tissue" from the bending the problem will get worse? No babying, it's out in the hot sun, 95 today. Ok, maybe I'll stick it in the shade and see what happens. A couple others cupped slightly last night under the lamp so I raised it several inches. A few hours later they were fine. problem is I don't know which variety they were as I shift them around. So, gave them a solid watering and will monitor them closely today.

 

[kamut]

Keep us posted. I am interested in this topic. There is less info out there on desert grows.

 

[Hasbroh]

Keep us posted. I am interested in this topic. There is less info out there on desert grows.

Day 17, 4/21

Going to be 101 today. If you haven't lived in the desert you just can't realize how friggin' hot it really is. "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" Yeah, sure. I've lived and worked outdoors all of my adult life in the SE/SW US. Humid areas such as Boca Raton, Hilton Head Island, etc. They get rough, don't get me wrong. But the desert is still a lot rougher. Plus, I'm above Tucson's elevation so sun is more intense. Nuts. Plus being a 56 year old thick blooded Irishman raised in the NE doesn't help , either.

Rishi Kush are 3 1/2" to 4 1/4". Krystallica are 4 1/2 to 5". At least a 1/4" a day. They haven't seen any cool weather for a week now. Garage doesn't get below the 80s plus they are under a lamp anyway. Stems are thickening the last two days. Palo verde straw mulch is great.

Have been putting seedlings out at around 6:30 am in the rising sun. Shade from a mesquite is just starting to dapple them, 11:30 am. 95 degrees. Will leave under tree until later afternoon and place in direct weakening sun. Temp will be at highest of the day but with the weaker sun they will be ok.

Still messing with watering. I'm generally reluctant to water too much. Yesterday morning's saturation watering is still holding 30 hours later. The worm castings also make the soil more dense and water retentive. When the roots start taking up their share of the container it will be easier to discern but then it will soon be time to step up. Really learning a lot in spite of 30 years in the hort. biz.

Have been obsessing over where to build an indoor grow area for the plants that don't go outside. Garage or my bedroom. Just can't make up my mind. I take care of my brother and he needs it pretty warm due to his health. It ws 90 in the tv room last night, lol. Sheesh, and the garage is even hotter. I might just cook them in the garage and move them inside for a cooler lights off time. Maybe 16/8? These will be in big containers eventually so this coild turn into a comedy of errors as I try to shift six foot plants in 15 gallon containers around. Then there's the filtering....

edit: Fourth nodes on all are developing.

3:00pm: well, dam. Since it's been 33 hrs. since the last water I went ahead and checked the root growth on the smallest and largest plants. All the way to the bottom and starting to mildly circle the 4" pots. Still capable of breaking up if not careful. So I watered fully (water coming out bottoms) and will hold off watering for two days and then step up. That will be a total of 9 days in the 4" pots. I feel reluctant to go to my "1 gallon" Monrovia pots as they are really about 3/4 gal pots and with the fast root development they will outgrow them too quickly. I would like to be able to sex them in the next containers so a larger pot will be required. I guess I'll go to the grow shop and pick up some bigger pots. Size suggestion, please. 2, 3 Gallon?

 

[Hasbroh]

Day 20, 4/24


Repotting
Decided to step up to (real) 3 gallon containers. They hold equal in volume to about 14 of the 4" pots. Same mix as 4". I plant very full, with the plant base a little higher than the new pot. It will settle but allows for a little more soil and I like the way the roots develop. Works for other types of plants at least. Keeps moisture away from trunk, too. Watered with about 60-80 ounces of water. Not enough to saturate pot but some very slight draining and enough to soak root ball.
edit: Put them out under a mesquite, about 2,000 candle power until later afternoon full sun. Think I'll go full sun all day tomorrow. They should be fine, high of 94.

Next time I will start from seed directly from 4" pots and repot to two gallons. These Mandala seeds really take off just as they claimed. And so far are breezing through the heat, just as claimed. I'll probably stick with Mandala, maybe try some more cooler oriented seeds in the winter for indoors. Maybe more in the Indica direction. Cool thing with Mandala is that all of their seeds are "built" to take heat and arrid conditions.

Thinking of sexing by eventually covering a branch (12/12) or else I'll be growing even the males until fall. Any opinions?

Grow Closet
Pretty sure I'll build a closet in the garage in the 7'x7' or 6'x8' range. 7 1/2' to 8' tall. Very hot in the summer but can pull cool air in at the base through a hole in the wall that comes from my bedroom and exhaust through the ceiling into the attic. I seem to be leaning towards larger plants in large containers and I will be able to grow four good sized plants with 4/400 HPS/MH vented lights. Also get 250 watt bulbs for more flexibility.
To repeat, Two of the total eight plants will be planted outdoors in the planter (6'x8') and however many remaining females will constitute the indoor grow. If I get one female I'll get one 400 watt lamp, three females will beget three lamps, etc. Input welcome. I realize I'd get more feedback with pics but they will come eventually.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

I wouldn't buy lights based on how many females u get this grow. I would think more in the future.... Like a single dimmable 600 or 1000. You can pull a lot off a single 1k hung vertically with four big plants shaped in a box around it. but it's kind of a pain...........i would go with 5 gallons also

 

[Hasbroh]

Thanks, I should have been clearer. My intent was to eventually have four 400s that can be changed to 250s. That way I could have more adjustability and be adaptable to different age/sized plants. I was also considering a 1000 but felt it wouldn't be as diverse with just one lamp. I also may try the four plant method and then want to change it up so I'm still in the developmental stage. Appreciate the input.

Fives sound about right, maybe sevens. Am I realistic thinking a 30" veg would work about right? 60" total or thereabouts? Or a bigger single plant that I can angle light from the four corners....

Edit:
Day 21, 4/25

Ahhh, clouds today and tomorrow. About 90 today, 80 tomorrow. Brrrr!!! Didn't realize it but all the leaves are flat now as opposed to turned slightly upward. Curious to see at what temp they turn back upward with the new 3 gallon pots. Growing really fast now, can hear them stretching. Neice is visiting my brother so had to move plants in just now. They're under a 150 HPS, poor things. They are in the 1,500 to 2,000 candle power range. Will pick up a 400 HPS Saturday or maybe a 600.

edit:
10:00pm
I'm just amazed by how fast these little plants respond to, well, everything! The leaves are already changing size and getting a darker color from the lower light both outside - due to clouds - and from having to space larger pots further from light indoors. Think I'll keep plants under the mesquites when the sun comes back as usual, don't want to stress them. I do like giving them the morning and late afternoon sun, though, which can be done from under the trees. And when I get the new bigger lamp Saturday I'll start the lamp up higher and monitor closely with light meter and laser thermometer. Need to start keeping better notes re. cupping (read stress response) in relation to leaf temp, light intensity, and soil temps/moisture. Some ornamental plants in my garden last year could take leaf temps of 125, for instance, provided they had enough soil mass and or moisture in a planter bed and some could only handle about 105. Respiration played an integral part in the process, of course, so it will be interesting to see the relationships with cannabis in both pots and garden beds. Yada, yada, yada, just blathering.


Day 21, 4/26



Noon
20-30 mph winds with 45 mph gusts. 76 degrees. 35% humidity, which is very high, usually around 10-15%. Have plants surrounded by chairs but might just bring them in as the chairs may become airborne. Were just sprinkled with some rain, very rare this time of year. Best water around but not worth the risk. Ahhh, well.

Edit:mehh, tightened up the chairs and used the palo verde straw to bolster the stems and left them out. Sun is out now and they really need to take some higher rays. Hope I don't regret it. Part of the learning curve. Leaf temps around 80. Straw makes it a lot easier to water, keeps soil steady.