Have to flush, have a few questions. +rep for help.

I'm a newbie on my first grow who has had several problems. I'm looking at another problem and have a few questions.

To get everyone up to speed, I started by mixing FFOF and Bone & Blood meal (got some bad advice). I was getting minor nute burns for the first 3 weeks then it stopped. I fed them just 1/3 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom in each gallon to give them K & minor nutes the following week.

At the same time I had realized that the pH probe I was using was only meant for dirt and I got 3 simultaneous bug infestations. I switched from distilled to spring water and began to pH it to 6.3 - 6.5 using an aquarium pH test kit and ended up getting some funky looking leaves (pH fluctuation) but that stopped a few days later. And I finally got rid of my bugs and now I have 3,000 lady bugs in there and stockings over my air intake. My exhaust runs through ONA liquid so I figure that's a good bug barrier. I do still fear a return of the spider mites, but so far so good.

Yesterday, about 3 weeks since the minor nute burns stopped, and 2 weeks since the Tiger Bloom feeding, 2 plants were showing nute burns again. Today one of those 2 plants are a lot worse having minor nute burns up & down one side of the plant. So I guess I'm gonna have to flush. I filled all 21 of my one gallon jugs and will have to flush them one at a time.

OK, so here are my questions.....

OK, the current questions are, will flushing flush out the Mycorrhiza and will I have to retreat?

Do roots continue to grow after you put the plants into flower. (question related to Mycorrhiza treatments)

I have 2 plants showing nute burn. After flushing those 2 should I wait on the other 5 to show nute burns before I flush?

What are the possible causes of leaves without discoloration curling downwards? (doesn't seem nute related and I don't overwater though I beleive I have been underwatering - Last watering straightened some of the leaves, but not most)

Is flushing really the best solution, or will it prohibit growth & limit the yeild? (in other words, should I just water extra heavily & wait it out)

+rep for help with these questions.

DannyGreenEyes said:

I'm a newbie on my first grow who has had several problems. I'm looking at another problem and have a few questions.

To get everyone up to speed, I started by mixing FFOF and Bone & Blood meal (got some bad advice). I was getting minor nute burns for the first 3 weeks then it stopped. I fed them just 1/3 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom in each gallon to give them K & minor nutes the following week.

At the same time I had realized that the pH probe I was using was only meant for dirt and I got 3 simultaneous bug infestations. I switched from distilled to spring water and began to pH it to 6.3 - 6.5 using an aquarium pH test kit and ended up getting some funky looking leaves (pH fluctuation) but that stopped a few days later. And I finally got rid of my bugs and now I have 3,000 lady bugs in there and stockings over my air intake. My exhaust runs through ONA liquid so I figure that's a good bug barrier. I do still fear a return of the spider mites, but so far so good.

Yesterday, about 3 weeks since the minor nute burns stopped, and 2 weeks since the Tiger Bloom feeding, 2 plants were showing nute burns again. Today one of those 2 plants are a lot worse having minor nute burns up & down one side of the plant. So I guess I'm gonna have to flush. I filled all 21 of my one gallon jugs and will have to flush them one at a time.

OK, so here are my questions.....

OK, the current questions are, will flushing flush out the Mycorrhiza and will I have to retreat?

Do roots continue to grow after you put the plants into flower. (question related to Mycorrhiza treatments)

I have 2 plants showing nute burn. After flushing those 2 should I wait on the other 5 to show nute burns before I flush?

What are the possible causes of leaves without discoloration curling downwards? (doesn't seem nute related and I don't overwater though I beleive I have been underwatering - Last watering straightened some of the leaves, but not most)

Is flushing really the best solution, or will it prohibit growth & limit the yeild? (in other words, should I just water extra heavily & wait it out)

+rep for help with these questions.

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You should always be watering heavily with plenty of runoff, if not every time at least every other time. also jesus for first timer you must have been posting lots and lots with 800 posts, rock on happy growing

super2200 said:

You should always be watering heavily with plenty of runoff, if not every time at least every other time.

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Thanks for the help +rep

I didn't know that and no one seemed to want to answer watering questions. So I was underwatering while I learned what's enough and what's too much. I figured underwatering is better than overwatering.

DannyGreenEyes said:

Thanks for the help +rep

I didn't know that and no one seemed to want to answer watering questions. So I was underwatering while I learned what's enough and what's too much. I figured underwatering is better than overwatering.

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What happens is the NPK values get all messed up. The plant is only going to take what it needs from what you feed it so you end up with messed up levels. I let my soil dry and even let my plants droop a bit before watering, when I do water though I make sure to have runoff so I flush any left over shit out including salt build ups and keep the nutes consistant. Over watering is watering too often and not allowing the roots to ever get oxygen as they are sitting in moist soil all the time. Letting the soil dry out good forces the roots to search and reach for water instead of rotting and pulling back.

dont over water because the leaves will droop down which you would be drowning them , and you should also research the problem with leaves curling and problems like that.if its hydro it should be around 5.7 ph and soil 6.5 ph ,
After you put nutes and the next day you see problems then you probable do have nute burn and if not check your Ph ..

not necessarily, if u underwater that means ur limiting the plants prtential to uptake nute and water through its roots. Prople tend to have a slurred meaning of what overwatering really is, U can dunk ur pot into a jug of water and soak ur soil to the bone and still technically be just normaly watering it. Overwatering is when ur constantly doing that process. A plant takes oxygen in through its roots aslso and when u water ur basically filling all the little pockets of air with water. If u dont let your soiul dry out in between watering then the oxygen wont get into the plant resulting in what people call over watering. Just give ur plants a nice soak every few days depending on soil conditions. Sick ur finger 2inches into the soil and if its not moist give them a watering. Also for the flush . its good to flush plants every once adna while anyways so u might as well do the other plants, nothing bad can come from flushing other then a PH inbalance if there is a difference in the water used to flush with.

marijuano1 said:

dont over water because the leaves will droop down which you would be drowning them , and you should also research the problem with leaves curling and problems like that.if its hydro it should be around 5.7 ph and soil 6.5 ph ,
After you put nutes and the next day you see problems then you probable do have nute burn and if not check your Ph ..

Click to expand...

or not allowed runoff when watering soil and its finally burning with levels all screwed up. may not be the one feeding or level your feeding at but the fact that all that shit is building up because you water and never allow runoff

super2200 said:

or not allowed runoff when watering soil and its finally burning with levels all screwed up. may not be the one feeding or level your feeding at but the fact that all that shit is building up because you water and never allow runoff

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\

true but he should also check up on other problems besides nute burn..

super2200 said:

What happens is the NPK values get all messed up. The plant is only going to take what it needs from what you feed it so you end up with messed up levels. I let my soil dry and even let my plants droop a bit before watering, when I do water though I make sure to have runoff so I flush any left over shit out including salt build ups and keep the nutes consistant. Over watering is watering too often and not allowing the roots to ever get oxygen as they are sitting in moist soil all the time. Letting the soil dry out good forces the roots to search and reach for water instead of rotting and pulling back.

Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. When I first started and had just planted the clones someone told me to water till I see run off. (5 gallon pot & 1" - 2" clones) I did what he said and the clone almost died. I had to prop it up & the whole 9 yards. So I investigated, found out about root rot and have been overly cautious since. I'm sure the plants can handle it a lot better now.

I also thought about the roots searching out for water and I was also letting the plants droop a bit before watering. But I had read that underwatering can cause the root growth to be limited so I've been trying to keep that from happening the last couple of weeks. All my plant's roots are at the edge of the pots except 1. I found a way to get them to do it without underwatering though. I just water from the edge of the folliage to the edge of the pot/planter. This way the roots have to grow out toward the edge of the pot to find water. The 1 that still hasn't quite made it all the way was the runt and she's just about caught up with the rest.

I'll start watering heavier from now on, but will that fix a minor nute problem or do I still have to flush those 2 plants that are showing nute damage?

marijuano1 said:

dont over water because the leaves will droop down which you would be drowning them , and you should also research the problem with leaves curling and problems like that.if its hydro it should be around 5.7 ph and soil 6.5 ph ,
After you put nutes and the next day you see problems then you probable do have nute burn and if not check your Ph ..

Click to expand...

Thanks for your help +rep

I've looked everywhere for leaves curling down with no discoloration but have seen nothing that comes close. That's why I'm asking here.

I've been pHing the water to 6.3 to 6.5. It's just about impossible to get it exact every time using an aquarium pH tester kit.

I'm hesitant to try nutes till after I've flushed, if I flush which I probably will. If it continues then I know it's a deficiency and if it stops then I know it's a burn. But nute burns cause small & underdeveloped roots so if that's what it is I don't want to make it worse.

It can easily be a deficiency. I started with FFOF which is pretty rich in most nutes, and I added bone & blood meal so I know they don't need N or P. But except for that 1 small feeding I haven't added any more K or minor nutes.

BTW, love the pic. The best Joker we're likely to ever see. Sucks that we lost him, but his performance will never die.

Bigol'Bong said:

not necessarily, if u underwater that means ur limiting the plants prtential to uptake nute and water through its roots. Prople tend to have a slurred meaning of what overwatering really is, U can dunk ur pot into a jug of water and soak ur soil to the bone and still technically be just normaly watering it. Overwatering is when ur constantly doing that process. A plant takes oxygen in through its roots aslso and when u water ur basically filling all the little pockets of air with water. If u dont let your soiul dry out in between watering then the oxygen wont get into the plant resulting in what people call over watering. Just give ur plants a nice soak every few days depending on soil conditions. Sick ur finger 2inches into the soil and if its not moist give them a watering. Also for the flush . its good to flush plants every once adna while anyways so u might as well do the other plants, nothing bad can come from flushing other then a PH inbalance if there is a difference in the water used to flush with.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help +rep

I was told that flushing will shock the plants and cause lower yeilds. Is that not true?

I just learned that the probe isn't worth shit for testing moisture. The plants droop for 3 or 4 days before it says the soils dry 2" to 3" under the top. So I started using my finger a couple of weeks ago. But I used a 1/3 perlite mix so it's hard to tell if it's moist, but I'm working on it.

super2200 said:

or not allowed runoff when watering soil and its finally burning with levels all screwed up. may not be the one feeding or level your feeding at but the fact that all that shit is building up because you water and never allow runoff

Click to expand...

I only fed the one time, so most of this is caused by the original soil mix (FFOF + Bone + Blood meal). I always thought that the plants would either grow big enough to handle it, or the plants would absorb enough of it that it would stop burning them. I guess I was wrong.

marijuano1 said:

\

true but he should also check up on other problems besides nute burn..

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The only other problem that I can see that it may be is the pH, which I have a handle on now.

It could also be a UVB burn from 3 weeks ago, but that would be one heck of a delayed reaction.

It could also be a result of the bugs that I had sucking on my plants. But since they've gone the leaves have been getting a lot more moist. I can't imagine that their would be a delayed reaction from them, but I'm a newbie so I really wouldn't know for sure.

One possible theory, I started using Mycorrhiza about the same time that the nute burns stopped 2 to 3 weeks ago. That stuff makes the roots grow like crazy, and it helps the roots absorb more. Maybe they're getting burned now even though the soil isn't as hot because the roots are a lot bigger & absorbing a lot more. That would also explain why the 2 biggest are getting the burns while the other's haven't started to show yet. What do you think?

If that assertion is correct, then I've gotten the answer to wether I should flush the others now, or just the 2 that are showing. I still have several unanswered questions though......

Will flushing flush out the Mycorrhiza and will I have to retreat? (I dug 4 holes in each planter & put a teaspoon into each to feed the ends of the roots)

Do roots continue to grow after you put the plants into flower. (question related to Mycorrhiza treatments)

What are the possible causes of leaves without discoloration curling downwards? (doesn't seem nute or pH related and I don't overwater though I beleive I have been underwatering - Last watering straightened some of the leaves, but not most - could this be caused by underwatering over a period of 6 weeks?)

Is flushing really the best solution, or will it prohibit growth & limit the yeild? (in other words, should I just water extra heavily & wait it out)

And 1 new unrelated question. I just turned off my 400w HPS leaving one 400w MH with a cheap heat causing hood. It's hung at 28" and the temp at the tops of the planters dropped from 80 to 68. I also spent a few hours putting the lady bugs back on the plants and they seem to like that a lot better and are staying on the plants more. If I keep just the one light on, is that going to cause any problems? The temp again dropped from 80 to 68, I have 7 plants in a 3' x 3' area, and it's a 400w MH hung 28" from the tops of the plants.

87 visits and no replies in 2 hours? Can someone please help with these questions?

And I have another question to add to the list.

I recently bought a Rapid Rooter tray that holds 50 clones and uses plugs/cubes

A few of the clippings have completely wilted and it seems like the branches that hold the leaves are rotting. If I try to pick up the leaf it just comes off like the branch isn't even there. Are these clippings gonners or should I just let them be? And in the future should I keep the branches from resting on the plugs?

I'm coming up with new questions faster than I'm getting answers. +rep for help, please lend a hand

I don't understand one thing here? Are you running a hydro system? maybe you answered this already and I missed it, but I assumed you are because if you mentioned in your first post that you accidentally bought a dirt ph meter...

If you are running hydro, how the hell can you over water??? Do you mean having too much water with not enough nutrient solution??? Because that's not over watering..

I just saw you last post on this thread, and feel bad for you dude... having leaves basically falling off, and branches that seem like they are rotting??? ouch. I don't know where to start to help you.

My first question, is this hydro of soil grow?
what type of nutes are you using now? at what strength?
did you do a flush? (soil flush, or water only hydro flush)
what's your ppm?
did you get your pH under control?

snutter said:

I don't understand one thing here? Are you running a hydro system? maybe you answered this already and I missed it, but I assumed you are because if you mentioned in your first post that you accidentally bought a dirt ph meter...

If you are running hydro, how the hell can you over water??? Do you mean having too much water with not enough nutrient solution??? Because that's not over watering..

I just saw you last post on this thread, and feel bad for you dude... having leaves basically falling off, and branches that seem like they are rotting??? ouch. I don't know where to start to help you.

My first question, is this hydro of soil grow?
what type of nutes are you using now? at what strength?
did you do a flush? (soil flush, or water only hydro flush)
what's your ppm?
did you get your pH under control?

Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion, I'm using soil. I was trying to say that I was pHing the water with the dirt probe (newbie mistake)

On the last post, that's the rooting station for clippings/clones, not the mother plants. The ones with the branches that rotted are laying on the plug which is always wet. I guess you can't let the branches rest on the plugs. But I still need to know if the ones with rotting branches will ever root so I can get them out & new ones in if that's the case. (I'm living on clones for the next 2 1/2 months while I wait for my first harvest.

When I mixed the pots I took some bad advice and mixed some blood & bone meal with FFOF. That would probably be 99% of the nutes used for the entire grow so far. The minor nute burns got more & more rare and stopped 3 weeks ago, so 2 weeks ago I fed with 1/3 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom (per gallon). I also treated with Mycorrhiza at the same time. The nute burns just showed up on my NY Diesel (the worst of the 2) and one of the Blueberries. I'm not sure if the Tiger Bloom is what did it. The Mycorrhiza makes roots grow like crazy, so the roots may now be in a part of the soil that's still at the original strength of when I made the pots. Plus it help roots absorb more of everything. So it's my guess that the original soil mix is the real culprit and the Mycorrhiza allowed the roots to reach it and absorb too much too fast. Either way, the plants getting worse & worse so I think I'm gonna need to flush the NY Diesel at the least.

I haven't flushed yet. I was hoping I wouldn't need to. And I didn't have enough one gallon jugs until recently.

If PPM is checking the electric conductivity, then no I haven't checked it. If it's something different, then I'm not sure.

I think my pH is under control, but I just saw a leaf that's a tiny bit warped which would indicate a fluctuation. I know that aquarium testers aren't the most accurate, but it's all I can afford till I get some clones sold.

I'd really appreciate help with as many of the questions that you can help with.

Ok, I've been up all night getting answers to my questions but I still have 1 left. I hope someone can answer it for me.

Will flushing during veg prohibit growth & limit the yeild of most strains?

No Danny, it won't. Flush them, they'll be fine. You should start from a new platform, that way you know just, with your past experiance, what to do. Besides I think you've been slightly underwatering them. It will do them some good to get a real good rainstorm. I di know that as the soil drys up, the plants uptake more nutes that are no longer diluted. I suspect thats why you saw more nute burn.

So flush em. The plant will start to take on a neon green color when it wants nutes.

Whats the deal with the gallon containers?

seasmoke said:

No Danny, it won't. Flush them, they'll be fine. You should start from a new platform, that way you know just, with your past experiance, what to do. Besides I think you've been slightly underwatering them. It will do them some good to get a real good rainstorm. I di know that as the soil drys up, the plants uptake more nutes that are no longer diluted. I suspect thats why you saw more nute burn.

So flush em. The plant will start to take on a neon green color when it wants nutes.

Whats the deal with the gallon containers?

Click to expand...

Thanks for you help +rep

I've run real short on money so I have to use the gallon jugs that the spring water comes in to measure out 15 gallons and to let the water breath for 24 hrs.

Once I get the clones going I should be ok, but till then I'm on a shoe string budget, can't spend an extra penny. I was hoping that the rapid rooter would work faster than rooting the clippings in soil, but after a week, not one root.

Not only that, when I was checking I pulled a cube out and accidentally grabbed the leaf of the clipping next to it and pulled it out of it's cube. The roots haven't even started yet, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I'll probably be on here in a week asking about it. lol