Haze Harvest - a few pounds of 1200w vertical weed

Prawn Connery said:

Anyone else who wants to raise the lack of a standard or quantification of the 1g/watt formula, I'm happy to discuss civilly.

But please, don't come here, read one post and expect me to repeat this whole fucking thread.

The whole point of this thread is not to tout the world's greatest grower, but to show what can be done in an efficient vertical set-up - something I've been playing with for almost 10 years now. Whether you believe my scales or not, I don't really care.

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I have been civil, tis thee that jumped into a rant and got abusive because I dare to question your greatness.

GPW is a false and bullshit measuring tool. Don't get angry, that is not insulting you or your grow. Here is why...

You hit 54oz of 1200w vertical = 1.26 GPW. Excellent result...... or is it???


I grow F&D SOG at the moment (I have a SCROG awsell but thats another story), pretty much a novice in the grand scheme. I am currently upto approx 20g per plant. Not great really, aiming for an oz per plant.

I too have 1200w hps over 36 plants. This gives me a yield of 720g. That is 0.6 GPW. What a load of pants hey, your GPW is double mine but it still beats yours hands down.

You quoted that you veg for minimum 4 weeks under 250w MH, so I will use an average of 6 weeks veg. 42 days x 18hrs x 250w= 756 vegging hrs under light = 189 kwh then into flower. You flower for 10 weeks, don't know if that from flip or first sign of flower. 70 days x 12hrs x 1.2kw = 1008kwh. That is a grand total of 1764 kwh for 54oz.

I veg under 2 6ft floro's for 7-10 days once out of the cloner just to settle them in. 120w for 10 days = 1.2 kwh then into flower. My strain of lemon is an 8 weeker from flip, not from first signs of flower. 56 days x 12hrs x 1.2kw = 806.4kwh + 1.2kwh veg = 807.6kwh for 25.7oz. Here's the kicker... I get 2 grows to your 1. That gives me 1614kwh for 51.4oz.

I don't feed to waste, so my nutes are less. I don't have to fuck about with training so effort is less. I use less energy over the same period of time for pretty much the same output. I trim single large cola's so trimming is quicker. ARHHH but your GPW is double mine so you must be doing better. Other things I have not accounted for is cost of running fans, nutes etc whilst vegging, wear and tear of bulbs and filters. I also grow in hydroton which I recycle so no medium costs.
Mate.... I am not disputing that you grow some nice bud and have great results, it is not however massively efficient, it is average and the concept of GPW is . From an asthetics perspective they are ugly as fuck (just sayin).

I welcome your counter.......

MrMeanGreen said:

Nah there aint 8 oz between pegs. Not a chance unless it aint dry.

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You disagree. Fine. The fact the evidence contradicting you is right under your nose is beside the point. You're entitled to your opinion.

But that's not all you wrote, is it?

MrMeanGreen said:

but yr givin it large like some god.

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You call that civil? I call that baiting - especially after the above statement. You pull that shit on me, and don't expect a "civil" response. I don't suffer fools.


Moving on . . . How exactly do you figure you get two grows to my one?

This is what happens when people don't read. You assume all my strains go 10 weeks. You assume I'm not vegging in one chamber while flowering in the other (I run back-to-back flowering cycles). You assume I don't make use of the flowering chamber after harvesting the earlier finishing plants while waiting for the 9-10 weekers. You assume the Catpiss haze always goes 10 weeks. You assume I'm trying to maximise vegetation instead of pacing it out with weaker nutrients and more plants per 250w MH in order to time my flowering cycles right. You assume I don't strike clones and veg plants for friends as part of my growing routine.

You also haven't been growing long, because there is a law of diminishing returns when you veg too long - causing the plants to flower too large, overcrowd the flowering chamber, and ending up with poor, stringy buds and less yield. You haven't seen my veg chamber, so you really don't know much about it, do you?

On to the subject of run-to-waste . . . So you grow flood-and-drain and never dump your reservoir? No wonder you only get 720 grams from 1200w! You've never done run-to-waste, so you don't actually know how much nutrient goes in and how much comes out - another assumption that would surprise you (I've addressed this already in the drain-to-waste forum - something else for you to not read).

You say you save on labour . . . and then claim you reuse your hydroton - which, of course, you never clean, de-root or sterlise prior to reusing. You assume coco can't be reused - when it can, multiple times - but I choose not to (for reasons already explained). You say you have less effort than me, but I don't recall having met you and have you observe my growing routine!

I mean, how many clones do you need to strike to fill your food-and-drain table each grow? That takes time. As does trimming (you got me there!). As does keeping your hydro system sterile and clean (I almost never clean mine - it's organic). As does checking your ppm and pH regularly . . . because you never dump your res and have to constantly maintain everything in balance, right?

It's getting late here - I've been drinking - and I would love to discuss the gram-per-watt theory with all your bullshit aside. But I need a bit more time than I have tonight and I'd like to go to bed . . .

I say your both full of shit.

Hug it out!

I was really enjoying reading this thread until it got really ugly------aren't we all on the same side?---- To share our hard earned knowledge over the years.

I'm many years past my first rodeo-----and can easily spot growers who know and don't know what they're talking about.

Einstein once wrote--"My opinions and beliefs don't matter as much as my right to have them and your right to have yours".

Hope we can always be civil----even if we disagree and explain to each why we disagree.

A~~~

Prawn Connery said:

Here are some photos of my Stinky Catpiss Haze just before harvest. The first couple are two haze plants vertically scrogged around 1200w of light. You can see one 600w HPS up top - there's another down below, hidden in the middle of the circle of plants (you can just make it out in the first photo). The hazes are left and right - there's a little indica plant in the front middle, and a couple more behind (which I'll get to in a minute).

The next two photos are close-ups of typical Stinky Catpiss buds, showing a bit of crystal and the haze-like structure. The high is like a rocket-ship - you start soaring as soon as you breathe out, and feel your heart pounding faster as you just get higher and higher. Apart from the initial physical rush, it's all in the head as it continues to take you up. This is a favourite day-time smoke around here - clean, functional and active. It lasts a good time, too.

I call it "Stinky Captiss Haze" because that's what it smells and tastes like: catpiss and sour lemon fuel. It's one of the stickiest, oiliest plants in my collection and is a Nevile's Haze cross with a mystery indica. It's haze dominant but only takes 10 weeks to completely finish.

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Wow. Just wow.

Happy Happy Happy indeed.

Prawn Connery said:

It could be better, I admit. But I'd love to see your 3lb 1200w grow.

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I was complimenting you. In fact your garden has helped me plan my next one. Honestly other than a little extra tying and such to fill in the blank spots I can't imagine a more efficient grow. Still complimenting. As far as my yields I usually run about 1 to 1.5 per 1000 hps. Depending on strain. My best yield ever was 22 oz. (dry)of of 15 plants under a 1000. That is not including 15 football sized colas (wet)that got tossed and not weight due to poor planning an high humidity. Now I'm planning a few experiments, one with bare bulbs and more of a standard garden with shelving around the edges and trellises and another with some cool tubes and a cage style grow.

And really I was complimenting you.... I bet with the right training you could squeeze another 8 out of it no problem!

Everyone has to have a lil bit of hater in them lol I've read all of it an I don't really think pc has done anything half as rude or offensive as many members of the forum do on a constant basis, fortunately those people I'm referring to are not ( yet ) in this thread. I personally have a pet peeve about when people try to compare there small grow with a larger one and justify how they are doing "better" by some metric they use to feel good.
Heres the deal people, all that matters at the end of the day is getting a number you are happy with. I don't care if some micro grow with 100 watts has 3gpw, odds are a person can't upscale there success or they would. or they are lacking in other qualitys that prevent them from using more watts (no money no balls or no ambition pick one). 3 lbs is not a large grow this guy is not claiming to be industrial. He never once that I saw at least, claimed to have better buds then anyone who reads it so why so many people trying to come back and compete? IMO this guy did great in what looks like a small sq ft. Maybe it takes up more space than it looks but whatever.


i crop like 5-7 lbs from 4000-7600 watts. I rarely break past the .5 GPW and I bet I veg longer than most too, so my grows are not efficient at all by comparison to a fair few, however I'm very happy with what I crop each time and we all learn ways we would like to improve by reading about others results. However despit the fact my GPW is fairly low the fact I crop plenty makes up for any extra costs several times over and I'm doing significantly better then if I was only running 2000 and cropping 3 lbs. so long as what you do is a "net gain" your actions were positive. Telling someone else they are wrong does not make you more right then you were or were not in the first place, especially in things like this where there's so many right ways to do things.

You don't have to separate the roots if you reuse coco, just FYI.

i had some swiss bliss and did not care for the taste but i will try it again. just growing 2 beans, 1 male and 1 female is no way to judge a strain.

now that stinky catpiss has definately hit my want to try list.

faller200 said:

I say your both full of shit.

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Whatever mate. Put up or shut up.

Bigtacofarmer said:

I was complimenting you.

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I know. I'm sorry. The dickheads are starting to come out of the woodwork and I'm starting to get a little defensive. It's always like this - has been since OG days. You post a grow or try something new and some ill-educated inbreed wants to have go. But they invariably have fuck-all to show for themselves and are found left wanting.

OGEvilgenius said:

You don't have to separate the roots if you reuse coco, just FYI.

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Indeed. Fine root mass is no problem. But some of the bigger roots have to come out just to free the coco up a bit. You also have to be a little careful you don't end up with too much root mass, as you start to lose some of the original properties of coco which make it such a great growing medium; namely its spongy ability to retain moisture, drain properly and keep oxygen in the root zone.

For me it's just easier to put the old coco out in the garden and poor a new bag. I don't have to worry about bugs or flushing, or separating everything in another container. And coco's cheap.

^^^^ Thats what the enzymes are for. Breaks down dead and old roots and helps stop beneficial organic material from leeching out.

growingforfun said:

Heres the deal people, all that matters at the end of the day is getting a number you are happy with.

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Spot on, mate. The only reason I'm posting these pix is to show what can be done in a 4'x4'x6' space and prove - beyond any doubt - that it is possible to get good yields by hanging your bulbs vertically.

What some people also don't get is I'm not monocropping - I grow all different varieties side-by-side - and that I'm not striclty growing for yield. If I was growing for yield, I'd simply run my biggest strain and be done with it: no balancing different nutrient requirements, less fucking around trying to weave different sized plants in and out of the mesh, and no staggered harvest, as in this grow.

Cash croppers monocrop.

smoke and coke said:

i had some swiss bliss and did not care for the taste but i will try it again. just growing 2 beans, 1 male and 1 female is no way to judge a strain.

now that stinky catpiss has definately hit my want to try list.

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While Swiss Bliss is fairly uniform, there are three subtle phenotypes: a sativa/haze pheno, a blueberry skunk pheno, and one that's in-between (which is the one I selected). The sativa dom can go for 10 weeks and obviously yields best. The buds have an astringent candy-lime smell/taste and have a tight foxtail structure, like a christmas tree. The blueberry skunk pheno is pretty much how it sounds, with deep red/blue hues, a diesel-fuel/blueberry aroma, and a heavy but leafy bud structure.

The best pheno is the one in-between, because it tempers the soaring (paranoid) high of the sativa dom with a relaxing undertone, and has a nice grape bubblegum flavour. It also yields quite well. I grow it first and foremost for the high - I love it, and can smoke it any time of day. But I've also grown out maybe two dozen Swiss Bliss F1 females over the years, so had a good selection to find my desired mother.

hyroot said:

^^^^ Thats what the enzymes are for. Breaks down dead and old roots and helps stop beneficial organic material from leeching out.

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What about compacting? Do you guys who reuse coco long-term have issues with it breaking down, affecting drainage - that type of thing?

Here are the two indicas hanging up (freshly trimmed and wet). There'll be a few ounces off these two.

Maybe I should play "Guess the weight" . . . Let's see how good the marijuana photo experts are. Any takers?

PC.... You seem to have an issue communicating without swearing or insulting. Not once but twice I commended your grow and final product, credit where credits due. I pointed out that in reality you are not hitting the numbers you brag about and you take it as personal insult as you also did about GPW. Good luck and I apoligise for denting your ego.

You didn't dent my ego, Mr "Give it large, like God". My yields are what they are: "pix or it didn't happen", as they say. Yet you still choose to deny it.

If you want a proper discussion, don't barge into a thread and start laying it on . . . and then whimper off when your target returns fire. You're commenting on shit you don't know. (Sorry for the profanity, precious, but that's the way I talk.)

Your statement on run-to-waste is nonsense - I've run DWC and recirculating hydro systems, and by the time you've factored in a weekly res dump, you end up using almost the same amount of nutrients. My set-up goes through about 65 litres of nutrient a week. And I run it at 2/3-3/4 strength (cos it's run-to-waste). Do the maths.

You also want to compare your monocrop grow with my mixed seed and clone grow. Numbers aside, everyone knows if all you're interested in is yield, you monocrop.

There is certainly merit in your theory about yields per kw hours - I actually agree with you on that point. But you're calculating unknown quantities. Or at best, practicing selective mathematics.

Post whatever you want - I won't flinch - but if you call bullshit on me, I'll call bullshit on you and around and round we'll go. I'm a very strong proponent of free speech and debate - as you know - but there's not a lot of merit in criticism if you don't back it up.


PS. Your maths is atrocious! You say you pull 720g per 806kw/h of flowering time = .89 grams per kw/h. By your calculations (which were wrong to begin with, but I'll humour you), I pull 1512g per 1008kh/w = 1.5 grams per kw/h.

How on earth can you still claim you get two grows to my one? You're in La, La, Land - and you wonder why people like me lose their patience with the mathematically challenged . . .

I, too, await your reply. But somehow I think you're going to cut your losses and save further embarrassment.

Aussie hey Mad rep

Well I don't give a DAMN what anyone sais bro! I can see your getting (weight wise) what you claim!! And I can just tell you know what the hell your doing just by reading your posts & seeing your photos of you ladies! I wouldn't worry about "haters" bro! There just pissed off they can't pull weight like your doing is all that shit is! +rep to you my friend!

Hey, if you ever get some free time, stop in and check out my ladies. I am running 34 strains now! Lol. I had 36 but 2 passed away on me. had alittle funeral for um the other day! Lol

Well bro, keeps up the good work! Hope to see you on the thread.. link in my sig..

Dank

Prawn Connery said:

You didn't dent my ego, Mr "Give it large, like God". My yields are
what they are: "pix or it didn't happen", as they say. Yet you still choose to deny it.

If you want a proper discussion, don't barge into a thread and start laying it on . . . and then whimper off when your target returns fire. You're commenting on shit you don't know. (Sorry for the profanity, precious, but that's the way I talk.)

Your statement on run-to-waste is nonsense - I've run DWC and recirculating hydro systems, and by the time you've factored in a weekly res dump, you end up using almost the same amount of nutrients. My set-up goes through about 65 litres of nutrient a week. And I run it at 2/3-3/4 strength (cos it's run-to-waste). Do the maths.

You also want to compare your monocrop grow with my mixed seed and clone grow. Numbers aside, everyone knows if all you're interested in is yield, you monocrop.

There is certainly merit in your theory about yields per kw hours - I actually agree with you on that point. But you're calculating unknown quantities. Or at best, practicing selective mathematics.

Post whatever you want - I won't flinch - but if you call bullshit on me, I'll call bullshit on you and around and round we'll go. I'm a very strong proponent of free speech and debate - as you know - but there's not a lot of merit in criticism if you don't back it up.


PS. Your maths is atrocious! You say you pull 720g per 806kw/h of flowering time = .89 grams per kw/h. By your calculations (which were wrong to begin with, but I'll humour you), I pull 1512g per 1008kh/w = 1.5 grams per kw/h.

How on earth can you still claim you get two grows to my one? You're in La, La, Land - and you wonder why people like me lose their patience with the mathematically challenged . . .

I, too, await your reply. But somehow I think you're going to cut your losses and save further embarrassment.

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@pc: I'd like to know what size space this eats up. I really considered doing a vert grow this time but wasn't sure if I could match my yield of doing the full room. I kinda like those vert cages and if I could fit a few into my room that would make up for it. But one of my main deturrents was that i thought it would be much too hard if i had more than one strain in the mix, something you apperently did fine but clearly mono cropping would be easier in this style. I have a 10x10 room so I kinda thought it would be just slightly too small to run 3 -4 cages if the area needed for each is <5x5 including room on the outside to work it could be great.

what I have planned instead of the vertical cage like yours, is to put plants alonge the wall and lean screens so the plants can have a sort of vertical cage on the outside of the room while I do my usual Scrog in the middle. Thoughts? I run soil btw, seems to give me good reliable results.

for this run I'm doing a couple Scrog plants and several bushes, and added a vertical bare bulb 600 hps for underlighting (5000 watts above them). So far this looks to be my hands down best run and that vertical 600 has a huge amount of bud around it.

do you think there is a benefit to using those cages as opposed to the methods of having bushes with vert bulbs between and reflectors above?