He who controls the seed,will control the weed.

Tkm953

Tkm953

Well-Known Member
Remember the end of the wildwood flower song,"well he dug and he burned,and he burned and he dug,till he killed all our cute little weeds.We just smiled and waved. Sitting on that sack of seeds.But seriously,do you think we will be able to go to the nearest seed bank and buy the latest strains ?Doubtful,with full legal will come patents,you will be sold some watered down version or the latest HOT strain will only be available as bud at your local dispensary.The abyss holds lots scary questions.You probably won't get to buy fems or auto flower,straight only and odds at getting a female will probably as high as winning the lottery.Their will be squabbles and lawsuits over who created what.But one thing is for sure,you won't be growing nothing without the seed to do it,and neither will they.We will have seed cartels,cannabis geneticist millionaires,and copyright infringement, price gouging and of course the black market.In our race to legal,we must not lose our freedom of choice,or let ourselves be held hostage by what will be the greedy few that realize this.
 
nuevo

nuevo

Well-Known Member
Every industry has it's robber barons and scumbags, but there are ways to keep a budding marijuana industry in the hands of the proletariat. For one thing, it's a weed, so it is a very hardy and diverse species of plant. I have found it relatively easy to grow superb examples, from both seeds and clones, indoors and out. I doubt I will ever have the means to do more than a small grow per the Oregon proposed rule (a small licensed grower is looking to be 5,000 sq. feet of canopy indoors, more outdoors), but even that size of grow is more than enough to be able to have a robust breeding plan and the ability to create excellent strains unique to my own little garden and ecosystem.

I can imagine that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of other people just like me in our great now legal state. I am looking forward to organizing small growers and hobby growers into some kind of growers association or co-op, where seeds, clones, and other products can be swapped and/or purchased for reasonable prices. By banding together, we can have leverage against the big money that is surely coming, and keep at least one segment of the industry honest in its dealings with each other and the public.

BTW, there is a hearing next week on the Oregon proposed rules where members of the public can speak directly to the OLCC. see this for more info.

Public Hearing Notice - Temporary Rules on Recreational Marijuana
http://www.oregon.gov/OLCC/pages/public_meetings.aspx#Rule_Hearings_-_Marijuana

Friday, October 9, 2015 - 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.OLCC Headquarters, Room 103A*
9079 SE McLoughlin Blvd., Portland, OR 97222
http://the%20capacity%20limit%20for%20the%20meeting%20room%20is%20100%2C%20with%20entry%20granted%20on%20a%20first-come%2C%20first-served%20basis./
The OLCC Commissioners will be taking comments on temporary rules related to recreational marijuana. Comments will be limited to 3 minutes per speaker. Written comments will also be taken at the hearing.*The capacity limit for this meeting room is 100, with entry granted on a first come, first served basis.

For questions, email [email protected], or call 503-872-6366




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T

T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why the OP has such a dim view of the future of the seed industry. There has been a seed industry for a long time in Europe (where it is legal). As more and more states go legal, I'm sure these same companies (as well as new U.S. companies) will be opening up for business right here in the U.S.A.

I'm pretty sure it will be business as usual (prices, selections, etc.) except that it will be right across the counter, for a change. Remember, every business has to deal with three things:
1. Supply and Demand.
2. The Competition.
3. Pleasing the Customer.

My prediction for the future of buying seeds is that it will be better than ever! I think the prices will even fall way down as competition kicks in. Of course that's just my un-paranoid opinion.
 
hellmutt bones

hellmutt bones

Well-Known Member
T.H.Cammo said:
I don't understand why the OP has such a dim view of the future of the seed industry. There has been a seed industry for a long time in Europe (where it is legal). As more and more states go legal, I'm sure these same companies (as well as new U.S. companies) will be opening up for business right here in the U.S.A.

I'm pretty sure it will be business as usual (prices, selections, etc.) except that it will be right across the counter, for a change. Remember, every business has to deal with three things:
1. Supply and Demand.
2. The Competition.
3. Pleasing the Customer.

My prediction for the future of buying seeds is that it will be better than ever! I think the prices will even fall way down as competition kicks in. Of course that's just my un-paranoid opinion.
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Bro have u seen what these companies and the government have done to the vegetable seeds?
Is a full out war already. They force you to buy seeds over and over, when in reality the natural vegetables are always producing seeds these modified seeds dont produce seeds so ur forced to buy from them.
 
T

T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
hellmutt bones said:
Bro have u seen what these companies and the government have done to the vegetable seeds?
Is a full out war already. They force you to buy seeds over and over, when in reality the natural vegetables are always producing seeds these modified seeds dont produce seeds so ur forced to buy from them.
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What I'm saying is, Cannabis seeds (for home growers) are for a niche market. If, and when, Phillip Morris gets into the game along with other Agro-industry giants and their "modified" seeds - you can simply choose to not buy them. I feel confident that there will always be a supply of "Gourmet Quality" seeds available from good old reliable sources. We'll just have to wait and see.

Worst case scenario would be that "good" seeds where only available on the underground market. I'm sure the underground market ain't going away!
 
daloudpack

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
lol hey i wont complain if marijuana seeds dont produce marijuana seeds, ive had enough of males and hermies lol besides there is always cloning
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
You guys and your "gourmet"or "atisan" quality. And how there will always be a market for "top shelf" crack me up. There is a demand, there will be a demand but you will not be the one controlling or probably growing it. Period. You all are delusional on what you think will be left of this little thing of ours we had all to ourselves for so long. Once mj becomes fully legal nationwide (which is coming alot sooner than u think) 99% of us and what we grow will soon be a distant memory except for a few plants in our yard for personal. If you think the companies ready to get on board with billions for investment cannot grow "top shelf" you need to quit smoking. This whole gig is coming to a close. You all should prepare for it. Save your money, go back to school, do something. It will be so cheap that to grow inside under expensive lights and equipment will be ridiculous. The hobby hydroponic "industry" is finished. I bet thats the main reason Larry Brooke, Founder and CEO of General Hydroponics (and an early pioneer of the indoor industry )sold out to Scotts /Miracle gro and literally flew off into the sunset on a private jet. This happened fairly recently. And he is no dummy. He saw the end times coming. We should too.
 
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FauxRoux

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
To an extent since1991 is quite correct. The price of pot will plumit. Medical cut it in half and as the black market dries up so will the high price tag. Indoor small scale will become completely financially untenable.

1 thing I do disagree with though is quality. If you look at most commercial ag products like tobacco you will find that almost all is Ruderalis. Standard practice is to isolate specific strains for mass production which does NOT lend to the highest quality. I'm sure most of you have heard the term "monoculture". Quantity sure...but the automated processes used to save money will likely take a toll even if the genetics are there. And last I checked cigs were so packed with chemical and preservatives how could you tell the quality of the tabacco in the first place. So there will likely be some room for "artisan" growers. We do have farmers markets after all.

This does not however necessarily (or even likely) mean that there will be room left for closet "artisan" growers other then personal as those folks will still likely be growing it in the acres for it to be viable enough to make a living....I mean...how many people do you know that make a living growing exotic mushrooms, wasabi, echinacea or any number of other relitively high priced specialty crops in their closet/garage?

In school half a commercial ag degree (honestly probably more then half) is spent learning how to keep a farm financially viable. General rule is you must expand by 10% a year just to keep up with inflation alone. There is a reason why you don't see family sized farms anymore, commercial ag has made them extinct with cheap low quality monoculture crops...and its a DAMN shame for more reasons then I feel like getting into.

You know who was the greatest boon to Marijuana cultivation? Ronald Reagan. Without the war on drugs not only would growers have never brought the plants indoors but without the high prices as a result of the black market no one would have spent the time and money breeding marijuana into the plant it has become today. At least not nearly as fast. How's that for irony?
 
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Vikerus Forrest

Vikerus Forrest

Active Member
Can't patent Life. Or have we forgotten?
Only way this could happen is if someone gets the extremely stupid idea to make GMO seeds.
 
K

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Lol.. Marijuana always has and always will be produced by the people that love it.. Look at alcohol, still room for the small guy.. Only with weed I foresee the big guy being the small guy, all of us feel the same we don't want that.. Supply and demand, and the demand will always be for my supply..
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Wow. Growers are in a big suprise coming soon is all i can tell you. Does anyone realize whats going to happen with full marijuana legalization at the federal level? The impact will be huge. No grower can truly see it because its had black market prices for so long. Be safe prepared is all iam saying. Growers shipping units from michigan to southern last to go with legalization states. And they have been for a few years now. I can get units of indoor fire holy grail kush and other really grown well top shelf buds all day in Flint for 2000$ or less even. Prices are dropping through the floor since about 2011. And they will continue.Every one is making a dash to grab what cash is there. There still money to be made but you have to expand your sites and rooms amongst other things. Folks. Dont get stuck in your ways ....this cash cow is drawing to a close soon.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Marijuana will not only be produced by people that "love it". Matter of fact joe cool grower witll definitely be in the minority. Small plot oitside or small greenhouse maybe. When prices drop to 50 or 100 or even250$ a pound (and thats HUGE to traditional farmers/ big ag companies) you wont turn on any hps indoors. You wont. And big money companies can and will grow ALL DIFFERENT VARIETIES AND GRADES OF CANNABIS. Craft grown .....puhllease. Cmon.
 
FauxRoux

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
As I've said, I work in commercial ag.....most of the big companies in CA are either preparing or looking into getting in on it. Since1991 is right...Those of you who think there will be a viable market best prepare for a letdown. I cant even tell you how many aging hippies i know over 50 who havnt done anything else for the last 30 years....those that weren't smart enough to save or invest are currently fucked..mostly working as trimmers now. Amsterdam only has a market cause its not quite legal. Here in CA you are FIGHTING for $1800 a lb for top shelf indoor...and no one wants less then 10 which of course drops the price further.

Its going to get worse. If your making money...start saving it.
 
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texasjack

texasjack

Well-Known Member
You'll need a field to make money, just like all other crops. And really, why should it be any different?
 
FauxRoux

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
texasjack said:
You'll need a field to make money, just like all other crops. And really, why should it be any different?
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Well I can see it garnering a high commercial price tag like Wasabi or Echinacea given its medicinal and various uses. But nowhere even close to even current black market prices.

Although given the ease of cultivation I could be wrong on that. In all honesty it really doesn't take any more skill then tomato's.



p.s. Keep in mind when I say high wasabi still only goes for $160 a kilo and is the most expensive crop in the world (last I checked).
 
K

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Lol I understand prices are low I Mean it's harvest season and every Jack ass with spider mites is trying to sell his crop for 1500a p to out of state buyers so I get it, then everybody else goes and competes with that and sells good shit for a fraction more... That aside there will just always be room to make a living, just won't happen like you think, not anytime soon! What you forsee is the complete take over of an industry and that is far off time wise and anyway I hope to be sitting at the top of that mountain not this asshole Phillip morris... You claim they can match my quality, I say they can never match my passion and will and my quality is there.. You're forgetting something important too, the taxes added into rec in co make it cost prohibitive to buy legally for anyone that knows a guy like me.. And I plan to go legal anyway, at that point I don't see this likelihood that some grower gets so big I can't compete and have no market left.. It's just not the way we all roll.. I'll say it again there will always be room to make money..I can tell you're from Cali because of your opinion even if you didn't make it obvious, it's very different there, the one state with a supply larger than demand so if anything it's your growers screwing it up they need to sit on their crop and demand the higher prices.. Idk I'm rambling now I see your point just don't think it will play out that hard
 
FauxRoux

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
kermit2692 said:
Lol I understand prices are low I Mean it's harvest season and every Jack ass with spider mites is trying to sell his crop for 1500a p to out of state buyers so I get it, then everybody else goes and competes with that and sells good shit for a fraction more... That aside there will just always be room to make a living, just won't happen like you think, not anytime soon! What you forsee is the complete take over of an industry and that is far off time wise and anyway I hope to be sitting at the top of that mountain not this asshole Phillip morris... You claim they can match my quality, I say they can never match my passion and will and my quality is there.. You're forgetting something important too, the taxes added into rec in co make it cost prohibitive to buy legally for anyone that knows a guy like me.. And I plan to go legal anyway, at that point I don't see this likelihood that some grower gets so big I can't compete and have no market left.. It's just not the way we all roll.. I'll say it again there will always be room to make money..I can tell you're from Cali because of your opinion even if you didn't make it obvious, it's very different there, the one state with a supply larger than demand so if anything it's your growers screwing it up they need to sit on their crop and demand the higher prices.. Idk I'm rambling now I see your point just don't think it will play out that hard
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Just my states problem, huh? So kinda like how Idaho patatos aren't sold in Idaho? Higher price out of state? No offense man, but I make a living growing crop's. Regular ones. If you think your growing a finer crop in a garage then a (small) 20 acre farmer then your kidding yourself. Those boys know their trade and 20 acres with the right equipment blows a "hobbiest" out of the water.

Anyway...the point being, no ones arguing against your ability to grow a AAA+ crop..... But when big ag can grow something similar for 1/3 the price then you paid for your electric alone...well....good luck trying to make a buck after overhead.
 
K

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Quick just Ockham's razer kind of thought first off, there will be many many cases where big ag will have no interest in changing the crop farm to farm, again this is coming to what state you're in, with water so scarce it makes sense many farmers will want to get into a higher profit crop there.. So We will agree to disagree I just don't see it happening how you think it will across the whole country because I'm in a state where that awesome 20 acre crop is going to and yes I see the neglect, the bugs, even the great stuff we get from there I can tell when it's from a massive outdoor grow. And we aren't getting much of anything from co. That tells me Colorado growers have less of a need to export. Ca garnered such a reputation of the place to be for weed for ten twenty years now, couple that with my generation coming of age to take over some of rich daddy's land to build a place in the triangle and grow on large scales, many ogs out there too doing their thing from before we were around. It's a boiling point and right now the cheapest worst stuff is coming our way same as every year at harvest season. You guys keep the best for yourselves it stays in state mostly so I'm not saying there isn't bomb and I've gotten some of it many times I'm just saying that's part of why we see the future differently, when the density in ca spreads out as it becomes easier and easier to get in the industry and more states legalize, I believe prices will flatten out again instead of this little drop we are seeing. You guys have pressure there to sell and the price gets driven down. As more people grow there more must export and simultaneously their market is getting choked out as other states supply themselves and again you see a price cut. Understand that that lb you drop for 2g gets flipped on my state and easily for 24-26 if it's a personal buddy up to 3 even and, brace yourself, up to 38 if it's prime stuff So I do think there's huge opportunity left in every state that has not legalized yet as they do, and some that have. Lol I would appreciate if some of you guys would sit on your crop at harvest, Chuck your failures (spider mites), and stop selling cheap to middlemen that would help stop driving the prices down at all in the first place!! On the matter of outdoor vs indoor cost and price elsewhere than ca, if it gets to the point California is at (which it won't due to reasons I explain above)

I know for a fact there will always be someone willing to pay whatever I ask as long as I can produce a better product.

W.W. ;)
 
FauxRoux

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
kermit2692 said:
Quick just Ockham's razer kind of thought first off, there will be many many cases where big ag will have no interest in changing the crop farm to farm, again this is coming to what state you're in, with water so scarce it makes sense many farmers will want to get into a higher profit crop there.. So We will agree to disagree I just don't see it happening how you think it will across the whole country because I'm in a state where that awesome 20 acre crop is going to and yes I see the neglect, the bugs, even the great stuff we get from there I can tell when it's from a massive outdoor grow. And we aren't getting much of anything from co. That tells me Colorado growers have less of a need to export. Ca garnered such a reputation of the place to be for weed for ten twenty years now, couple that with my generation coming of age to take over some of rich daddy's land to build a place in the triangle and grow on large scales, many ogs out there too doing their thing from before we were around. It's a boiling point and right now the cheapest worst stuff is coming our way same as every year at harvest season. You guys keep the best for yourselves it stays in state mostly so I'm not saying there isn't bomb and I've gotten some of it many times I'm just saying that's part of why we see the future differently, when the density in ca spreads out as it becomes easier and easier to get in the industry and more states legalize, I believe prices will flatten out again instead of this little drop we are seeing. You guys have pressure there to sell and the price gets driven down. As more people grow there more must export and simultaneously their market is getting choked out as other states supply themselves and again you see a price cut. Understand that that lb you drop for 2g gets flipped on my state and easily for 24-26 if it's a personal buddy up to 3 even and, brace yourself, up to 38 if it's prime stuff So I do think there's huge opportunity left in every state that has not legalized yet as they do, and some that have. Lol I would appreciate if some of you guys would sit on your crop at harvest, Chuck your failures (spider mites), and stop selling cheap to middlemen that would help stop driving the prices down at all in the first place!! On the matter of outdoor vs indoor cost and price elsewhere than ca, if it gets to the point California is at (which it won't due to reasons I explain above)

I know for a fact there will always be someone willing to pay whatever I ask as long as I can produce a better product.

W.W. ;)
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Hahah.....weeeeell.....look...exporting out of CA has been most peoples game since the game started. Nothing new there. people here and everywhere trying to make a living do NOT keep back the best...its first out the door as (especially this time of year) you're competing with every other grower. 10 years ago a lb was 42 in CA and 8k in new york. Folks were muling thier asses off. Nothing comes out of CO cause half of what is there is from CA. trying to keep them supplied is partly why this and last year was the first time in about 6-7 years that growers have been able to haggle and prices came up a bit. And while your right about some of the price fluctuations and the reasons for them at the end of the day the average price being cut in half over the last 5-7 years is cause of the increasingly legal medical status and the clubs ability to grow for their patients, effectively pushing OG growers out of the market. Full legality will not reverse this.

Thankfully this has backfired at the lower end of the market. With lower pay most OG growers sell their shwag to the clubs (who still charge $50-60 a 1/8th despite buying at $2k) and so many people are going back to their street dealer who now sells a typically similar/better product for $25-30 1/8th. I dont know anyone that buys anything but edibles from clubs these days. Granted as you said I AM in CA.

To break this down ill put it like this ...Ive heard the "boutique" argument...and while I can see some room for it and agree that Marijuana as a legal crop is NOT going to go the way of big tobacco, I would say it WILL go the route of micro breweries at best. Now I would say we ALL know someone who's home brewing beer, but if you ask them what it costs to do so they will tell you after overhead and supplies it comes out to very close to the price of good micro brew at the store. Now while I like my friends home brew and much of it is quite good I cant say its better then some of my favorite microbreweries like dogfish, Mendocino brewery, lost cost..etc etc.

Now I agree some home brewers are just as talented as some of these micro breweries....the question is...how many people actually make it to that level? and how many home brewers do YOU know making a living doing it?
 
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