Healthcare reform-Do we really want the government screwing this up too?

Why are we even talking about a public option? How can we put something so important as healthcare into the hands of a government that can't do anything right? I agree that healthcare should be a fundamental right but I simply don't think government control of healthcare is the answer. Any thoughts?

doc111 said:

.....healthcare should be a fundamental right.....

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do we really have the right to the services and products of others merely because we may have a need? i'd agree that equal access to healthcare may be a right, but to say that everyone is legally liable for the health of everyone else is ludicrous. food, clothing and shelter are all necessities of life, so should the people be required by law to provide these things to everyone? there is a difference between moral responsibility and legal responsibility and, though the two may have become inextricably entangled, we should remind ourselves that government regulation is no substitute for a sound ethical base. no life is so precious that others should be forced into servitude for its welfare.

Are we willing to have people dying because they can't afford to be saved? That's the simple question. I'm pretty conservative but I don't think we have to be a country where people die for lack of medical treatment. That means the cost has to be distributed and I don't have too much trouble with that.

I know it could be done for far less than what is being discussed. Basically we just put a lot more people on medicare. What I don't like is the panting desire of the democrats to create legions of new bureaucracies to run this and regulate that.

This whole health care power grab is clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

This is a struggle to preserve freedom and liberty.

It is time for the sheeple to wake up, before it is too late



In 1994, Hillary Clinton's secretive health care task force was trying to nationalize health care. "A mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action," the Congressional Budget Office concluded. "The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.".................



"The notion that the general welfare language is a basis for a specific legislative exercise is all silly because if that's true, because general welfare language is inherently limitless, then the federal government can do anything."

excerpts from:http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=509933

I just don't think our government is doing much right these days. Why do we want to trust them with something so important? And government is huge! We need to be careful giving the government too much control. Too much control=Too much power. I agree something needs to be done and I'm not naive enough to suggest that a magic bullet exists which will fix healthcare but I don't think more government control is the answer.

If you like the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, and the great way the Medicaid-Medicare performs, you will love Government Health care plan.

Roseman said:

If you like the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, and the great way the Medicaid-Medicare performs, you will love Government Health care plan.

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Thank you! This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

i dont really see why this health care thing is such a big problem, if you have a job and pay taxes then you get health care for you and your family....now if your job wants to provide a better health care option then you can take that....but the main thing is if i am working and i get sick and have to be in the hospital i should be able to go there and get better without them turning me away or me being in debt for 10 years because of it.

Or we can try this....make every health care provider a non-profit organization because lets think about this for a min. if we get sick (which we will) they get paid...hmm it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that will get taken advantage of. so if all providers are non-profit. where does the money come from? well we raise taxes....OH NO! NOT TAXES! yes taxes but taxes on items we DONT NEED! here in CT we passed a higher tax on cigarettes, something that people enjoy but dont need, how about other things like candy, coffee, porn(i guess) idk if thats the answer but at least im thinking

dfhrace said:

i dont really see why this health care thing is such a big problem, if you have a job and pay taxes then you get health care for you and your family....now if your job wants to provide a better health care option then you can take that....but the main thing is if i am working and i get sick and have to be in the hospital i should be able to go there and get better without them turning me away or me being in debt for 10 years because of it.

Or we can try this....make every health care provider a non-profit organization because lets think about this for a min. if we get sick (which we will) they get paid...hmm it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that will get taken advantage of. so if all providers are non-profit. where does the money come from? well we raise taxes....OH NO! NOT TAXES! yes taxes but taxes on items we DONT NEED! here in CT we passed a higher tax on cigarettes, something that people enjoy but dont need, how about other things like candy, coffee, porn(i guess) idk if thats the answer but at least im thinking

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I see what you're saying but I don't think it's a simple matter of just raising taxes to pay for healthcare. If we keep giving more control to government we may simply wake up one day and say "What happened to our freedom". If we keep giving more responsibility to an incompitent government I think the result is a pretty predictable one.

Illegal Smile said:

Are we willing to have people dying because they can't afford to be saved?

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people die all the time. right this minute there are people dying all around you of causes that are easily remedied. should you be forced to save them or should that choice be left up to you? the essence of liberty is choice and the price of liberty is the responsibility for that choice. we live in the single most charitable nation on earth and still we feel it necessary to demand further contributions. the answer to our nation's healthcare needs does not lie in governmental intrusions or legislative edicts, but in admitting that those who cannot afford care are in need of charity and encouraging the private sector to provide that support.

we should have known better than to be taken in by the socialistic lies that led us to the corrupt institutions of social security and medicare, but we felt sorry for the aged and allowed ourselves that folly. such programs cannot exist without private enterprise to shore them up and fresh tax revenues to cover their shortfalls. we should never have allowed the welfare state to become a permanent feature of our nation's landscape, but the alternative was to force the indigent into productive lives and that seems too much like slavery for us to stomach. now we have a constantly growing portion of our society completely dependent on the not so tender mercies of the state. we were forewarned of the hazards of an omnipotent federal bureaucracy by this nation's founders, but our hubris led us to believe we could still maintain control over such a monster. so now we find ourselves in danger of being shackled by those we have chosen to represent us.

doc111 said:

I see what you're saying but I don't think it's a simple matter of just raising taxes to pay for healthcare. If we keep giving more control to government we may simply wake up one day and say "What happened to our freedom". If we keep giving more responsibility to an incompitent government I think the result is a pretty predictable one.

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believe me i am the last person who wants more government control. but i have been looking at this as kind of a parent child relationship. the govt is the parent and we the people are the children.

the govt gave us a chance to run health care the way we saw fit. well that didnt work out well because the people running the providers dont care about helping the American public they only care about the profits. thats when the govt (parent) comes in and says well we gave you a chance but you fucked it all up. so were fixing it. weather or not their way is right or wrong were going to be stuck with it. because what the parent says goes.

dfhrace said:

.....i have been looking at this as kind of a parent child relationship. the govt is the parent and we the people are the children.

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fer crissakes grow up, government isn't your mommy. there are plenty of ladies down town that will spank you for being a bad little boy and they won't charge half as much as obama and his ilk are going to be taking out of your hide.

undertheice said:

fer crissakes grow up, government isn't your mommy. there are plenty of ladies down town that will spank you for being a bad little boy and they won't charge half as much as obama and his ilk are going to be taking out of your hide.

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well you tell me another way to look at it, we fuck up and the govt will come and save us....where else has this happened.... OH YA BANKS AND CARS. both of them fucked up and who came to save them....mommy government.

Now the health care system isnt really messed up its the people who are running it, those are the ones who are messed up. im trying to make a point with this part here but im going to have to come back when im done puffin because right now i dont care lol

dfhrace said:

well you tell me another way to look at it, we fuck up and the govt will come and save us....where else has this happened.... OH YA BANKS AND CARS. both of them fucked up and who came to save them....mommy government.

Now the health care system isnt really messed up its the people who are running it, those are the ones who are messed up. im trying to make a point with this part here but im going to have to come back when im done puffin because right now i dont care lol

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Is that really the role government should be playing though? I think it's been like this for too long now. Nothing the government has taken over is working well right now, and hasn't for a while. When people of a society hand over their freedoms in exchange for something the results are pretty predictable. Too much control=Too much power. Not a good thing.

Roseman said:

If you like the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, and the great way the Medicaid-Medicare performs, you will love Government Health care plan.

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It's no more complicated than that. Well said and excellent points.
j

We, the people, were not sreaming for Health care. Nope. THEY have been trying to get this 'thing' through since, what, 94 or so. Maybe longer.
But- the fact i health care costs are high due to the courts/lack of tort reform and BS lawssuits which inturn increases costs.
Keep Uncle Scam out of it and many other things and we, the people will be better off.
j

Haul me to Heaven said:

We, the people, were not sreaming for Health care. Nope. THEY have been trying to get this 'thing' through since, what, 94 or so. Maybe longer.
But- the fact i health care costs are high due to the courts/lack of tort reform and BS lawssuits which inturn increases costs.
Keep Uncle Scam out of it and many other things and we, the people will be better off.
j

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So true, so true. Why then are so many people convinced that the government is gonna come to the rescue and everything with healthcare will be fixed? I just don't understand it.

The government is the worst person to have running anything. Put it back in private hands free market will decide the prices. The insurance companies are as much to blame as the government. It costs me 2 dollars for 50 bandaids but it costs INS 652 dollars for 1. WTF I'm a libertarian voter I feel we have the best plans. Check out our issues you'll feel the same.

They are Government educated (raised) sheep. And the media is the biggest Public relations rep for Uncle Scam and Company.
(No wonder they're pissed at Fox News. Outside of Lou Dobbs on CNN, Foxs presents what you will not likely hear on other nets.
Don't get me wrong- Fox is also a PR office for the above listed pusilanomus freaks. Atleast they do - what they do- somewhat grudgingly.
Better than nothing but not what it could be.
j