Healthcare reform-Do we really want the government screwing this up too?

doc111 said:

Why are we even talking about a public option? How can we put something so important as healthcare into the hands of a government that can't do anything right? I agree that healthcare should be a fundamental right but I simply don't think government control of healthcare is the answer. Any thoughts?

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technically it would be a gov't controlled section of the health care industry. there is nothing in any version of any bill suggesting we abolish the major healthcare companies or the right to private insurers. what it does do is bring competition to the market helping to counterbalance the over priced policies that more often than not decline legitimate claims... and how is it that the gov't cant control a successful medical program. look at the military the millions and millions of soldiers, officers and their families that recieve top of the line health care. if we are already going to be taxed wouldnt you rather our taxes go to something that can better society as a whole rather than perpetuate violence, and ill health.

SmokeyMcChokey said:

technically it would be a gov't controlled section of the health care industry. there is nothing in any version of any bill suggesting we abolish the major healthcare companies or the right to private insurers. what it does do is bring competition to the market helping to counterbalance the over priced policies that more often than not decline legitimate claims... and how is it that the gov't cant control a successful medical program. look at the military the millions and millions of soldiers, officers and their families that recieve top of the line health care. if we are already going to be taxed wouldnt you rather our taxes go to something that can better society as a whole rather than perpetuate violence, and ill health.

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Private insurance companies won't be able to compete. This is a step toward total control of healthcare. I was in the military and I never received any of that top of the line care you speak of. It seems that we are taking a huge leap before we look at what we're leaping into.

doc111 said:

I'm not real sure what JFK has to do with healthcare reform but I think I see your point. I think government wants to control every aspect of our lives. Some people seem to like this idea as well. Before long maybe we can get them to wipe our asses for us after we take a shit too. Larger government is not going to fix healthcare! I almost want government to take it over so people will see how bad it will be. It won't take long for people to yearn for the old system that was jacked up, but still better than government control, back.

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boy that must be that tough slippery slope example... Thats not even a true concern or point. if thats the case i could say well once the fed begins funding school systems we will lose all competition and will no longer be allowed to enroll our children into private school... its a joke or lets see if this hits home a little better. according to your reasoning making marijuana legal would lead to an increase in race related crimes and use of other "hard" drugs. i mean come on.

SmokeyMcChokey said:

boy that must be that tough slippery slope example... Thats not even a true concern or point. if thats the case i could say well once the fed begins funding school systems we will lose all competition and will no longer be allowed to enroll our children into private school... its a joke or lets see if this hits home a little better. according to your reasoning making marijuana legal would lead to an increase in race related crimes and use of other "hard" drugs. i mean come on.

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You are trying to put words in my mouth that aren't there. I've been around long enough to see what is happening to the country and it always seems to get more jacked up every time the government steps in. I am a big proponent of more personal responsibility and self reliance. I don't want the government telling me that I have to see this doctor or that doctor. I also don't want to be put on a waiting list for chemo when cancer is killing me right now. Look around my friend. The healthcare system is just fine, it's cost that has gotten out of control. Why aren't we treating the disease instead of the symptoms?

doc111 said:

Private insurance companies won't be able to compete. This is a step toward total control of healthcare. I was in the military and I never received any of that top of the line care you speak of. It seems that we are taking a huge leap before we look at what we're leaping into.

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okay and why would the private institutions not be able to compete? If anything it would increase their business by reducing frivelous costs and bringing new customers to their product. I am the son of a marine and until i was eighteen every bit of my annual health expenses were covered minus the nearly nonexistant copay. I am forever grateful that the two times i broke my arm i wasnt forced to pay thousands of dollars for ibuprofen and plaster. Now im currently unisured and not by choice. I cant affor several thousand dollars a year for a service that requires a 500 dollar deductible should i actually have an accident. (not talking about illness) i personally think that your frightened of the gov't and simply refuse anything they want to do to improve the lives of average americans. simply because the fed stands behind it.

you should read the bill. i havent read all of the thousand an change pages but most of the hype that you are worried about simply isnt in the bill or is taken out of context. DEATH PANELS ARE A NECCESSARY EVIL. we as americans should learn when to die with grace and stop beating a dead dog into the ground.

SmokeyMcChokey said:

okay and why would the private institutions not be able to compete? If anything it would increase their business by reducing frivelous costs and bringing new customers to their product. I am the son of a marine and until i was eighteen every bit of my annual health expenses were covered minus the nearly nonexistant copay. I am forever grateful that the two times i broke my arm i wasnt forced to pay thousands of dollars for ibuprofen and plaster. Now im currently unisured and not by choice. I cant affor several thousand dollars a year for a service that requires a 500 dollar deductible should i actually have an accident. (not talking about illness) i personally think that your frightened of the gov't and simply refuse anything they want to do to improve the lives of average americans. simply because the fed stands behind it.

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Dude I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it. If you think this healthcare reform will have no negative consequences.....well suffice it to say you haven't been paying attention. Like I've said in about 5 previous posts, the government can't get anything right these days. I hope you are right and this fixes everything and we can all hold hands and skip through the daisies. I am a realist. I am sorry you don't have coverage. A public option probably will benefit you. But let's be honest, people without insurance still get taken care of either by charitable organizations or simply because most hospitals don't turn patients in need of treatment away. If you don't have a job or own property they can't take anything from you so really you have nothing to lose. Either way, people without coverage are taken care of if they want to be. This is going to cost so much freakin' money it may be the thing to finally break the back of the nation. Maybe not. I hope I'm wrong but only time will tell.

medicineman said:

Just the threat of a public option had the insurance moguls pulling their hair out. Without a government health care plan, the insurance industry will continue to rape the American public to the tune of 300+ Billion a year, Denying coverage at their leisure, denying procedures at their leisure, and upping premiums and co-pays as they please. We must take the profit out of health care, set rules and conditions, and make health care about health.

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Would you set pay scales for doctors, nurses, etc. and force them to work?

medicineman said:

Medicare for all with oversight. That's the ticket. If you don't like it, don't use it, simple is as simple does.

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If you don't like it and don't want it, don't use it and don't pay for it.
Yup, sounds simple enough.

Here's what government insurance will mean:
Rationed health care, some bureaucratic committee will decide which benefits you get and which benefits you are not provided. You do not have a say.
All private health care plans must adhere to regulations initiated by this "health care committee."
If you are eligible for medicaid, you will automatically enrolled, you have no say.
No company can sue the government for prive-fixing. Private companies get screwed.
Doctor's wages will be set. There is obviously a difference between the time, effort, and money between a general practitioner and a neurosurgeon, but their income will not reflect this as much as it should.
An employer must enroll it's employees into the government health care system.
If as an employer you pay X amount of money in income to your employees, you will automatically pay Y% for their health care. *Next Tier Up* If you have even more employees and you pay A amount, which is greater than X, than you will pay B% towards their insurance. What's to stop these corporations from getting rid of some people to move down and therefore pay less? Unemployment is going to be insane.

If the government is so set on getting more people health care, why couldn't they have subsidized companies to provide a greater number of people with health insurance. Also, subsidize companies if they hire X% more people. You get more people health care and create more jobs. They are already set on spending billions/trillions of dollars, so why not do something that is guaranteed to work?
The problem with Health Insurance is the malpractice suits that inevitable follow. This reform will not fix the problem, but will just create more.

Or
1. give people medical health savings accounts
2. high deductable long term health insurance (like life insurance)
3. tax credits for pro-bono work (doctors get tax breaks for seeing people for free)
Free the market to work.
Instead we strap the docters and patents in a yoke of government control.

A whole new Taxing mechanism.
Fines and even jail time for non-complience.
Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Why not empower people to take care of themselves.
Instead of trying to live at the expence of others.

We don't even need a public option. All we need to do is to reform the laws so that health care companies can no longer screw us all.

There are so many laws set up to make health care companies rich it is disgusting. Did you know that by law your doctor must charge you the same thing he charges insurance. BUT, your insurance doesn't pay that bill. No, they pay about 60% because of their "contract." What this does is artificially inflate the cost of health care for everyone else. Not only do you pay 40% more but you also pay for the 40% the insurance doesn't pay.

Also, did you know that to be on a group policy you must have to make a certain wage and work a certain number of hours at a specified location. The law doesn't allow people to buy insurance through their Church or their bowling league or what ever. So the UAW gets awesome insurance super cheap but an individual pays though the nose for crap.

All these BS laws must go! Insurance companies should be required by law to bill everyone the same rate regardless of what group they are in. Insurance policies are not appliances, it is not less expensive to make a file for a member of a group or 10,000 than for an individual. Either way each person is a separate file. The group issue is just another excuse to inflate the prices.

There are more ways to make health coverage accessible for all, we ought to try these before implementing a public option that will force just about everyone to participate and bankrupt private insurance.

BTW, everyone in America has health care if they need it. What they don't have is insurance.

Hear, Hear, RickWhite.

It amazes me people bitch about health-care costs.
But people don't bitch about the cost of elective surgery.
Surgerys not coverd by insurance like a boob-jobs or Lasic eye surgery,
The prices stay the same or drop.
Once government sticks its nose in to try to help they just botch it for everyone.

Rick white knows what's up the problem is price gouging if oil companies try that shit their screwed (because it effects everyone) if insurance companies and hospitals do that shit they are rewarded(because it doesn't effect everyone just the poor and un insured) so this should be on a level playing field. As I stated earlier the insurance companies and hospitals are fucking us. There should be competion in healthcare not one govt ran system competion drives prices down. It's simple don't cock block private companies from doing what is right and make all insurance companies have to be nationwide. Healthy competion is what free market is all about.

RickWhite said:

We don't even need a public option. All we need to do is to reform the laws so that health care companies can no longer screw us all.

There are so many laws set up to make health care companies rich it is disgusting. Did you know that by law your doctor must charge you the same thing he charges insurance. BUT, your insurance doesn't pay that bill. No, they pay about 60% because of their "contract." What this does is artificially inflate the cost of health care for everyone else. Not only do you pay 40% more but you also pay for the 40% the insurance doesn't pay.

Also, did you know that to be on a group policy you must have to make a certain wage and work a certain number of hours at a specified location. The law doesn't allow people to buy insurance through their Church or their bowling league or what ever. So the UAW gets awesome insurance super cheap but an individual pays though the nose for crap.

All these BS laws must go! Insurance companies should be required by law to bill everyone the same rate regardless of what group they are in. Insurance policies are not appliances, it is not less expensive to make a file for a member of a group or 10,000 than for an individual. Either way each person is a separate file. The group issue is just another excuse to inflate the prices.

There are more ways to make health coverage accessible for all, we ought to try these before implementing a public option that will force just about everyone to participate and bankrupt private insurance.

BTW, everyone in America has health care if they need it. What they don't have is insurance.

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Very good points Rick. We still have the best healthcare system in the world. People still come from all of the world to receive care here, and I'm not just talking third world countries. We are starting to see our own citizens, however, going overseas for procedures. I think tort reform is key to fixing the problem but it just isn't being talked about seriously. The people in congress are so out of touch with the real problems Americans are facing. This healthcare stuff doesn't affect them because they are taken care of for the rest of their lives! Wake up Congress! Listen to your constituents instead of listening to insurance company execs and lawyers.

Bump.........

One thing that is missing from discussion is the fact that it will be virtually impossible to sue anyone the goversters have done, did or are doing.
That's their version of 'tort reform'.
"Lawsuits? What sticking lawsuits?"
Which is code for 'sucks to be you' you stupid little sick slave. Go die already. One less mouth to feed etc. etc. etc.

Excellent point!
Insurance is the classic 'middle man'.
Why not just have a monthly billing arrangement with your local hospital of emergency care provider or local surgy center or family doctor etc.
Be creative but screw the insurance companies and defiantly the fed control aspirations of the greed pigs that lurk behind the scenes of Uncle Scam and company.

Excellent point Rick White that is....

It's an incrediby complex issue that means something different to everybody. I have younger friends that have never been sick or injured severely. Most don't have insurance, not because they can't, but because they don't see the need. The mentality is "I've never been sick so why should I pay an extra hundred bucks a paycheck for something I'll probably never have to use?" Unfortunately shit happens and if you don't have insurance you're screwed. Now on the other side of the coin you have the people, mainly elderly, who get sick all the time. They usually have insurance and supplemental insurance. I've even heard of some elderly having 3 different insurance supplements to help offset the cost of their healthcare. They still are paying a ridiculous amount of money for all this coverage and believe it or not they still have stuff that isn't covered. This all leads to a lot of questions. What is the fairest, most cost effective way to cover everybody or almost everybody? Is it fair for the 21 year old who's never had anything other than a cold to pay the same as the 60 year old who has had cancer, erectile dysfunction, and suffers from depression/anxiety. It's no wonder this issue is so complicated.