Help, can't smoke or vape :(

Hi everyone!

I'm a user since 1998 and a grower since 2004.

I consider my cannabis use as medicinal since 2007 as I have a few gastric problems (nausea and vomiting) and I also suffer from anxiety and, maybe, depression. In the last 5 years I could stop consuming a few times without craving it so I don't think the psychological habit is an issue as I can stay the whole day without consuming and I can do that for a few days.

Problem is that when I stop for more than 3 or 4 days my dreams become very vivid, I can remember everything and they are really very exhausting dreams which make me wake up tired, anxious and a bit depressed. That's where I think cannabis helps me and that's why I think there is a medicinal effect of cannabis to me. When I consume I hardly remember any dream and even if I do they don't affect me.

I should also say that since 2009 I use a Volcano and I very rarely smoke, I think I only smoke 5-10 joints per year and that's when I'm out and with no chances of using a vaporizer.

Now that I made a brief introduction (would need to write like 10 pages to explain it all to you guys and I'd do it but I know no one would read), let me tell you about my problem... a sad one...

For some reason 3 weeks ago I started to have some symptoms that are not compatible with cannabis vapor. It's like I have some sort of irritation in my stomach and intestines, but some days I also feel a lot of discomfort in the lungs zone and/or in the exophagus. I'm pretty much sure that the vapor makes it worse. I don't want to think that vapor is the cause, I think it may be something else since I suffer from gastric problems since 2007, but it's a fact that vapor is worsening the "irritation", which probably is also some sort of inflamation or, who knows, something more serious as I'm yet to do exams.

So, first of all I need your help to try and understand if there's any chance that vapor is doing this to me. I'd also like to know if there's any chance that once inhaled the vapor goes directly to the stomach and if it can also reaches the intestines. What do you think?

I know that specially sensitive users can have the lungs irritated by THC even in vapor form. How about the stomach and intestines? Can inhaled vapor/smoke directly reach to stomach and intestines?

I've been reducing my comsumption since I have these symptoms. I was a very moderated user already due to my gastric problems which force me to do a very light alimentation, so I'm a weak guy and I can't deal with a lot of weed, so I was doing just half a gram per day (that's an ounce for 2 months). Now I've been just doing something like 0.2gr per day, a couple of bags of vapor.

But I want to try and give it a rest, do a pause to see what happens. Only problem is the way I wake up, as with this recent condition my anxiety levels are higher than ever and I know it's going to be a hell of a journey if I stop using cannabis now. It already is, so without cannabis it will be much worse...

I made some chocolate chip cookies today and I may give them a try but I know the effect is very different from inhaled cannabis. I also know that there's a chance that the effect from edibles may worsen my anxiety. Right? Or does it totally depend on dosage?

I'm also not sure if with edibles I'll get the medicinal effect that allows me to wake up calm and restful. What do you think?

Any other tips you can share would be wonderful. Is it possible to get the same effect of inhaling but without getting any vapor into the lungs/stomach? What's the effect of stuff like Sativex? It's absorbed in the mouth, so does it go to the brain directly or is it processed in the lungs just like with edibles?

Sorry for all the questions and for the long post but I just couldn't summarize it more. I'm having a very bad time here since I'm worried that these symptoms that I feel for 3 weeks now may somehow be chronic and it would be really very hard to deal with them for life...

Unfortunatelly there's no legislation allowing medical cannabis where I live so I can't find a cannabic friend doctor that I can consult...

Thanks again my friends!

i skimmed through your post, lot of detail but i'm a fellow anxiety/depression sufferrer, so it caught my eye
especially about the dreams, they are a good diagnostic for depression issues, become very vivid, long on the nightmares
wake you up from a sound sleep?
don't know about your other symptoms whether weed is having negative effects
i do find it can help with anxiety/depression, but strain choice is huge
some do not help at all, some make things worse, some help
we're really in the stone age(pun somewhat intended) on how cannabinoids effect this disorder
if nothing else, MJ can be a mood elevator, and mood elevators are often used in depression treatment

Hi growone! Thanks for your reply

Well, I don't know if it's just anxiety or depression also. But I know cannabis help me with that, mainly due to the dreams issue that you mention. Now problem is that the symptoms I'm facing since the begining of this month seem to be incompatible with vaporizing (or smoking) cannabis.

Yes, very vivid dreams and without cannabis they are really extremelly vivid. Fortunatelly I very rarely have nightmares, it's more about dreams that are not scary but they are so monotonous and repetitve that they make me get really tired and anxious. Yes, sometimes I wake up in the middle of one of these dreams and I'm very alarmed, nervous, sad and tired like lacking of air. It's hard to wake up like this...

I know about different strains may help better than others and I'm very selective about what I use. Sometimes I harvest a plant (phenotype) that does not suit me and I just use it once, the rest of it end up wether being given to a friend or exchanged also with a friend for some strain that he has that suits me better. But I have it all controlled, that's not the problem and I do a very positive use of cannabis, it really helps me more than it does any harm. Problem is that now I can't take it, or I can but it seems to make my fucked up new symptoms worse.

Today is my 3rd day without cannabis, my last volcano bag was last sunday... And I did not touch the chocolate chip cookies that I made on monday yet.

But maybe I'll get back to vapor tomorrow as sincerely I didn't felt any better after stoping. I'll just have to think if I go with vapor or with edibles, but I'm afraid edibles may not help as much with the anxiety issue.

Have you tried edibles? How do they go with your anxiety/depression comparing to smoking/vaporizing?

Thanks again my friend. Kind regards.

i have not tried edibles, so can't help on that
nightmares may not be the right term, the dreaming experience you are having does sound like a depression symptom
i have been using St. Johns Wort for quite a while, and it has helped me with the 'wake up' kind of dreams
takes time, though maybe not as effective as it used to be for me

Thanks again growone

So...

Has anyone here with anxiety and/or depression issues tried edibles? How do they go with your anxiety/depression comparing to smoking/vaporizing?

Cheers!!

it is normal to have bad dreams when you quit getting high for the first few days, I went through that route several times.

The reason you are getting more dreams when u quit is because drugs alter your REM sleep....so u don't use them you get REM sleep and then you dream it is natural And as far as edibles I don't see a difference with them accept they take longer to work and last longer once they do.

HellPibe said:

Thanks again growone

So...

Has anyone here with anxiety and/or depression issues tried edibles? How do they go with your anxiety/depression comparing to smoking/vaporizing?

Cheers!!

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i use edibles be very careful though watch your dosages, you can cause yourself to panic if youget too high if you have bad anxiety though thats not everyone.

Vapor is inhaled, not swallowed...so how would any other method of thc uptake improve your stomach issues?

but if you have tummy issues i would suggest edibles because its normally in the form of a cookie or something unhealthy which has lots of fat and other unnutirious shit in it which is bad for people with digestive issues lol

sunni said:

i use edibles be very careful though watch your dosages, you can cause yourself to panic if youget too high if you have bad anxiety though thats not everyone.

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Hi sunni!

Thanks for your advice. Fortunatelly I'm very aware of that so I just started with 1/4 of a cookie, then another 1/4 about 2 hours later and now I know my dosis is half a cookie in the evening and the other half after dinner. Like this I get no anxiety, no panic and a very nice buzz. But, of course, once I do more cookies I will have to do the trial again to check if dosage is the same.

See you around, kind regards!

brotherjericho said:

Vapor is inhaled, not swallowed...so how would any other method of thc uptake improve your stomach issues?

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Hi brotherjericho!

Thanks also for your comment. I just don't understand what you mean, sorry. Vapor helps me but since a couple of months ago while it helps it also make my stomach and chest (the esophagus I think) irritated. That's why I started considering edibles for a while. And in this context I don't understand your comment and question.

With edibles I'm just trying to get the good effects from cannabis without the vapor irritation that I've been facing for a while now.

Sorry if I misunderstood your comment. Kind regards!

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Some tips for you, friend:

Switch vaporizers, maybe switch vaporizing methods competely. I personally cant use hot air or bag filling vapes for long as the hot dry air irritates my lungs, as I have asthma and a deformed lung. Moreover, a lot of hot air vapes use metal heating elements, which produce metal ions that damage the throat. For these reasons, the only method of inhaled consumption I can manage indefinitely is vaping BHO out of a concentrate bowl, fritted disc, skillet, or globe pipe. Occasionally I do other methods, but these have proven to give me no irritation and no out of breath feeling, even at the extreme level of medicating I am at.

For stomach irritation, nausea etc, that cant be controlled by herb, try ginger pills in addition to your normal medication. Go to your health food or bulk store, and get a bunch of powdered ginger (the spicier the better), and some 00 caps. When I have extreme nausea that the weed alone cant control, one to two 00 size caps of good strong powdered ginger always does the trick, its like magic, and there are no interactions to worry about.

Also, for edibles, you can quickly make a medible by taking a peanut butter cracker sandwich, like lances etc, taking off one cracker, sprinkling some ground herb onto the peanut butter (amount will vary greatly by personal need), replacing the top cracker, and nuking for 15 seconds. This will let the cannabinoids melt into the peanut oil in the peanut butter, and let you make an oral dose in 30 seconds flat that is very discrete,

Hi Vlad!

Thank you very much for you help

VladFromOG said:

Some tips for you, friend:

Switch vaporizers, maybe switch vaporizing methods competely. I personally cant use hot air or bag filling vapes for long as the hot dry air irritates my lungs, as I have asthma and a deformed lung. Moreover, a lot of hot air vapes use metal heating elements, which produce metal ions that damage the throat. For these reasons, the only method of inhaled consumption I can manage indefinitely is vaping BHO out of a concentrate bowl, fritted disc, skillet, or globe pipe. Occasionally I do other methods, but these have proven to give me no irritation and no out of breath feeling, even at the extreme level of medicating I am at.

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I think you may be right and we never know if my symptoms are affected by the metal ions you that you mentioned.

I use a Volcano as it has been tested by some dutch university, but I'm sure it is not completly "clean".

When you say "I personally cant use hot air or bag filling vapes for long as the hot dry air irritates my lungs", that's something I often read from other vaporizer users but I don't understand. I mean, I understand that the vapor is hot once it comes out of the heat element, but then when it's in the bag is not hot anymore. Am I wrong?

I also have a Herborizer (basically the same as a Vrip-tech) but I don't use it because it is not as "practical" as the Volcano. With the Herborizer I have to deal with a glass bong, water, lots of cables...

I also have other vaporizers (I'm like a collector, hehe..) but I don't use any. I have the Plenty (from Storz & Bickel, the same producers of the Volcano), I have a I-Olite, a Vapor Genie, a Vapor Star, a Vap-bowl... and I think that's it. Stuff I've been collecting since 2005...

I have a friend who is a very big fan of Dabbin' so I'll speak with him and give the BHO a try. Maybe it works with the Herborizer... or else I'll have to buy more gear to my collection, hehehe.

VladFromOG said:

For stomach irritation, nausea etc, that cant be controlled by herb, try ginger pills in addition to your normal medication. Go to your health food or bulk store, and get a bunch of powdered ginger (the spicier the better), and some 00 caps. When I have extreme nausea that the weed alone cant control, one to two 00 size caps of good strong powdered ginger always does the trick, its like magic, and there are no interactions to worry about.

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My nausea issues are not normal at all so I'm not sure if you ginger suggestion would work for me but I can definetly give it a try. Thanks.

VladFromOG said:

Also, for edibles, you can quickly make a medible by taking a peanut butter cracker sandwich, like lances etc, taking off one cracker, sprinkling some ground herb onto the peanut butter (amount will vary greatly by personal need), replacing the top cracker, and nuking for 15 seconds. This will let the cannabinoids melt into the peanut oil in the peanut butter, and let you make an oral dose in 30 seconds flat that is very discrete,

Click to expand...

Yes, that's a very easy and quick way to get edibles. But maybe dosage could be harder to do than with cookies.

Thanks again my friend. Let me know what ou think about hot air in Volcano balloons and any further comment you want to make is obviously very much appreciated.

Cheers and kind regards!

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I personally hate edibles. I have an extreme tolerance and too get the desired effects I either have to eat a lot of them or they taste horribly of weed. Idk maybe I'm just not too good at em. But I do make pills to take all the time, its definitely my favorite method of ingestion, when I actually use my weed as meds anyway.. but yea if you don't wanna smoke try making some hash oil and then making coconut oil pills.........I make the pills for my depression, I also grow landrace sativas which might play a part. But the pills like edibles last longer and give a different high. More relaxing and euphoric better for anxiety and depression, lasts long too so I feel edibles/pills are the best medicine

Volcano uses a nice ceramic heating core, but then introduces a ton of metal mesh and plastic into the vapor path (more than their competitors), so I find them a bit harsh. Maybe I can shed some light on what I mean by the hot air being irritating: while cannabinoids vape at around 380F, marijuana has several terpenoids and essential oils whose combustion temp is much lower than the cannabinoids evaporation temp. What that means is that, when using whole herb, by the time your actives vaporize, theres already some scorched essential oil smoke in the mix with your evaporated cannabinoids. For this reason, and the fact that the vapor produced is of a much lower humidity than normal air, the vapor feels scorched and "hot", despite the actual temperature having gone down quite a bit since the vaporization occured. If youre sensitive to such things (many seem to be), this can lead to a lot of irritation, and in some (in me at least) a feeling of nausea. This is true of every whole herb vaporizer.

Concerning vaping pure cannabinoids extracts:
I'd avoid using a nail, even if your friend recommends it, though do try to get some oil from him to try via a >90% efficient vaporization method. The reason I say this is that nails scorch quite a bit, much moreso than fritted discs, globe pipes, or concentrate bowls, and if you're having troubles with irritation from a bag vape then scorched nail hits will hurt even worse. Most nail enthusiasts will claim otherwise, and list a variety of rituals they think will help assure perfect vaping despite the heat source being frighteningly hotter than the combustion temp of cannabinoids, but if nails didnt scorch then the reclaim from nails wouldnt be scorched, and nail reclaim is always quite a bit nastier than the original oil and tastes burnt.

That said, vaping hash oil, truly vaping by one of the efficient methods, is the absolute smoothest, harmless experience your lungs will ever have. A good oil vapor rip is like huffing cool fog, no harshness, no taste on the inhale but just the slightest pot flavor on the exhale, and a refreshing opening of the lungs (THC is a bronchiodialotor like salbutemol but not as strong. If theres any smoke, the smoke will cancel out this effect, but when you've got pure vapor, its really noticable) Because of my *extremely* poor lung functioning, I can only manage a nail rip or a bag of vapor every now and again, but they quickly start to hurt if used regularly, and smoking anything (even in a pen vape/ wax burner) is right out of the question, but I can use a concentrate bowl and wand rig constantly, or a ball pipe, or dabs off of a hot fritted disc, indefinitely, with zero irritation. It makes it really easy for me to test vaping efficiency - any smoke at all and my O2 drops to less than 85%. O2 monitor don't lie, lol

If you cant find any concentrate bowls or fritted discs in your area and dont want to wait on shipping, you can make a globe pipe vape easily from a light bulb. Google "Vlad the Impaler light bulb vape" for detailed instructions and pics. For more info on *every* vaping method available on the market, check out the link in my sig, under the "Apparatus" chapter.

Try the ginger! Many studies have shown 1g ginger to be more effective than any pharmaceutical anti-emetic. Personally I find this to be true, and they work in 15 minutes flat. Each 00 cap holds about 500mg, .5g, so take two next time youre in pain, then wait fifteen and kick yourself for not knowing about this sooner! Its side effect free, and almost instant. Add in some cannabis and nausea cant touch you! Just make sure its the spiciest, freshest powder you can find, the actives degrade fast.