phil deese
Active Member
Just Getting Started, would like to know which system is better for a newbie,
drip or ebb & flow?
drip or ebb & flow?
Help Choosing a System
- Thread starter phil deese
- Start date
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
The best for a newb is a flood/drain system. Easiest to set up and clean. Can't clog with nutrient salts the way a drip system can.
Aero/bubble work very well but are more fiddly to set up and are reliant upon very tight control of nutrient pH, ppm concentration and temperature. A pump failure in an aero/bubble system will kill plants with only a day's inattention where flood systems are much more forgiving in case of a pump failure, particularly if a high-water-holding medium like rockwool is used.
Can't beat the simplicity and reliability of the old standard flood/drain, especialy for newbies.
Aero/bubble work very well but are more fiddly to set up and are reliant upon very tight control of nutrient pH, ppm concentration and temperature. A pump failure in an aero/bubble system will kill plants with only a day's inattention where flood systems are much more forgiving in case of a pump failure, particularly if a high-water-holding medium like rockwool is used.
Can't beat the simplicity and reliability of the old standard flood/drain, especialy for newbies.
phil deese
Active Member
Are The Aeroponic Systems That Much Better Than Drip Or Ebb & Flow?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
phil, aero systems can put more oxygen into the roots than a flood system and so they're somewhat more productive- exactly HOW MUCH more productive is hard to say. I haven't tried them side by side.
However, I am going to be trialling a NFT system alongside my flood trays just for the fun of it soon. NFT should be similar in productivity to aero.
However, I am going to be trialling a NFT system alongside my flood trays just for the fun of it soon. NFT should be similar in productivity to aero.
phil deese
Active Member
how often to flood/drain? Also have a vent. question. i am using a room that is 10'x9'x8' do not want to cut any holes if i can get by without it, if i use a portable a/c or air cooler along with a few fans blowing on my girls would that be enough, also will be in and out of the room several times a day, would that help bring in fresh air. this is one of my biggest concerns, thanx for the info!
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
The frequency of watering depends on the grow media you're using and the size of the plant.
If you use plastic pots of rockwool as I do, you need only flood once per day. Rockwool holds LOTS of water. If you water more often than 1x/day in rockwool, you stand a good chance of drowning the roots.
If you are using media which doesn't hold as much water as rockwool, such as expanded clay pellets, you will probably need to water 2-3x/day during lights-on hours.
Using aircon will keep your temps and humidity in the right range, but it won't draw fresh CO2 into the room. I'm always hesitant to suggest that opening a door a few times a day will be sufficient to bring in enough fresh air as it is far too variable. Strongly suggest you find a way of ducting fresh air into the room that doesn't depend on the door being opened periodically.
If you use plastic pots of rockwool as I do, you need only flood once per day. Rockwool holds LOTS of water. If you water more often than 1x/day in rockwool, you stand a good chance of drowning the roots.
If you are using media which doesn't hold as much water as rockwool, such as expanded clay pellets, you will probably need to water 2-3x/day during lights-on hours.
Using aircon will keep your temps and humidity in the right range, but it won't draw fresh CO2 into the room. I'm always hesitant to suggest that opening a door a few times a day will be sufficient to bring in enough fresh air as it is far too variable. Strongly suggest you find a way of ducting fresh air into the room that doesn't depend on the door being opened periodically.
phil deese
Active Member
would using some type of co2 generator help? will i be wasting my time if i dont intake/exhaust the room properly? thanx again!
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
It would be possible to run an almost totally sealed op if you run aircon and provide all the CO2 the plants need. However, the waste air has to vent to somewhere and your room also needs some oxygen- you couldn't run a 100% CO2 atmosphere.
A room properly set up for CO2 (from a tank) will be close to totally sealed but needs a controller device which controls fans to periodically vent the room and shuts off the CO2 when it venting to prevent wastage. Aircon is a very good thing in CO2 equipped ops- almost a necessity, IMO- as it keeps the CO2 in the room instead of blowing it out every time the thermostat turns on an exhaust fan.
However, aircon is very power hungry. I've never been able to justify the cost of aircon and CO2 against the improvement in yield- which can be very significant, just not significant enough for my needs.
If you can't ventilate the room, you probably ought to think about a different space for your op. It is very expensive to rely solely on aircon to cool your room. It's much less costly to pump ambient air through the room for cooling.
A room properly set up for CO2 (from a tank) will be close to totally sealed but needs a controller device which controls fans to periodically vent the room and shuts off the CO2 when it venting to prevent wastage. Aircon is a very good thing in CO2 equipped ops- almost a necessity, IMO- as it keeps the CO2 in the room instead of blowing it out every time the thermostat turns on an exhaust fan.
However, aircon is very power hungry. I've never been able to justify the cost of aircon and CO2 against the improvement in yield- which can be very significant, just not significant enough for my needs.
If you can't ventilate the room, you probably ought to think about a different space for your op. It is very expensive to rely solely on aircon to cool your room. It's much less costly to pump ambient air through the room for cooling.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Large commercial greenhouses often use LP or natural gas powered CO2 generators instead of CO2 from tanks. If you're using a LOT of CO2, a combustion type generator is much more practical than carting big heavy 3000psi tanks around.
However, combustion generators also make a lot of heat. If your space is not very large, the heat from the generator will either add load to the aircon or will be constantly tripping the thermostat for exhaust fans, defeating the purpose.
However, combustion generators also make a lot of heat. If your space is not very large, the heat from the generator will either add load to the aircon or will be constantly tripping the thermostat for exhaust fans, defeating the purpose.
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
That is a good size room. How many lights are you planning on using? Have an idea how much heat that will be. Al is right, venting the room will be cheaper and better for your plants. Welcome to the forum. VV
phil deese
Active Member
not sure how many lights i will be running , thinking bout running seperate rooms for veg/flowering. would need to make some sort of wall to seperate the two spaces. any ideas on a simple solution for that? i would like to have
at least 10-12 plants do you think that is possible?
at least 10-12 plants do you think that is possible?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Use 40-50W worth of HPS lighting per sq ft in your flowering area. For 10-12 plants, you'll need about 10-12 sq ft of lighted space. A 400 would work, a 600 would be better.
If you grow in the Sea of Green (SoG) style, you only need wall off enough vegging space to maintain your mother plants. Your cuttings will be put in to the flowering area as soon as they have a decent root system established- they need NO vegging.
The easiest way to separate your veg & flowering areas is to create a lightproof curtain out of panda film (ask if you don't know what panda film is).
My mother vegging area is located in the same floorspace as my flowering area, but I just threw a piece of panda film over a 2x4 screwed to the rafters, doubled the panda film over so that the white side of the panda film faces both the veg and flowering areas. The double thickness of panda film prevents any light from the veg area from leaking into the flowering area. My veg area also has its own exhaust fan which vents that space independently of the flowering area.
You will need to cook up a small clone box of some sort. It will need some fluoro lighting, a heat mat and an exhaust fan to remove excess heat from the lights.
If you grow in the Sea of Green (SoG) style, you only need wall off enough vegging space to maintain your mother plants. Your cuttings will be put in to the flowering area as soon as they have a decent root system established- they need NO vegging.
The easiest way to separate your veg & flowering areas is to create a lightproof curtain out of panda film (ask if you don't know what panda film is).
My mother vegging area is located in the same floorspace as my flowering area, but I just threw a piece of panda film over a 2x4 screwed to the rafters, doubled the panda film over so that the white side of the panda film faces both the veg and flowering areas. The double thickness of panda film prevents any light from the veg area from leaking into the flowering area. My veg area also has its own exhaust fan which vents that space independently of the flowering area.
You will need to cook up a small clone box of some sort. It will need some fluoro lighting, a heat mat and an exhaust fan to remove excess heat from the lights.
Hey Fuct, when you do this start a grow journal and take experiments and stuff. Be good stuff for rollitup =) I would def. love to read.
mosberg911
Well-Known Member
ebb n flow man its def the way to go check out my set up in the journal section it is easy as hell to work
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Thanks.
I'll probably do a post about it when I get it built. Still drawing and deciding on materials.
phil deese
Active Member
is there much difference in using a new wave T5 floro. for veg/mothers as opposed to a 400 watt MH?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
mogie did a post about T5HO fluoros a few days ago. Loves them for vegging mums. Not so good for flowering due to the low-intensity light discharge from fluoros.
A 400 HPS will raise up mother plant material incredibly quickly. Mine recover from donating cuttings in 15 days. If you need to do cuttings every couple of weeks, the 400 HPS is probably the way to go. If you don't need cuttings so often, the T5HOs should be OK for you.
Under a 400 HPS:
just after cuttings...
2 weeks later.
A 400 HPS will raise up mother plant material incredibly quickly. Mine recover from donating cuttings in 15 days. If you need to do cuttings every couple of weeks, the 400 HPS is probably the way to go. If you don't need cuttings so often, the T5HOs should be OK for you.
Under a 400 HPS:
just after cuttings...
2 weeks later.