Help! DWC Impressive Veg - Embarrassing Yeilds

Ok RIU - Looking for serious advice please. Impressive veg and nice stretch in 1st 2 weeks of flower. Most girls 3ft, one girl 4ft, but yields average a zip wet if lucky after 65-70days from the flip. Here's the detail:

Master Kush(2), Blackberry Kush(2) and White Widow(2) (1st run with WW, results pending)
5 gal DWC with 2" stones bubbling nicely
Advanced Nutrients PH Perfect 15ml Micro, 15ml Grow, 15ml Bloom (Previously Jungle Juice 3 Part)
CalMg+ 15ml
AquaShield 30ml
mycorrhizae sprinkle
GH Florablend Vegan Tea 30ml
SuperThrive 4 drops

Veg: PH 5.8, PPM 350-400 Air: 72-78 degrees Rez: 67-72 degrees (Avg 70), 400 W MH. Girls veg until at least 15".
Topped up to 3 times.
Lite fungus gnats but azamax and gnatrol to grow medium keeps under control.

Flr: PH 6.1, PPM 650-700 Air: 74-81 degrees Rez: 69-73 degrees (Avg 72), 600 W HPS. 65-70 days from flip before harvest.
More CalMg as needed.
Koolbloom Liquid 15ml weeks 3-7
Koolbloom Dry 1 teaspoon weeks 8-9
Water w/cap full blackstrap molasses as week 10 Flush

Rez changes every 7-10 days. Aerated tap water.

Any suggestions to increase yield greatly appreciated. Scrog is not an option right now.
Thanks in advance.

Gonna need some pics of flowers and whole plants. Obviously they arent healthy. If dwc i'd bet roots are to blame. Look into AACT.

Why so many differing strains, difficult to tell from here exactly what the cause is .... pics please

Roots look good. Some staining from the compost tea. Humidity 55-60%. Trying Widow to see if better luck with a different strain. Just took these pics. Sorry light came on while taking. 3 plants at day 49 and 2 plants at day 56. I have yet to see the swell everyone talks about in last two weeks either...
Would really like to find out where I'm blowing it. Most DWCs on RIU and YouTube are kicking these in the @ss. What's the missing link?
Thanks for any advice.

Just my 2 cents, it could be genetics, it could be that you have 6 plants under one 600 watter ( I would consider doing no more than 4), also have you tried just keeping your nute recipe simple with out all the additives? Btw very detailed layout.

Impressive veg and nice stretch?

Could you elaborate a little more?

What training are you doing during veg?

At what height are you flipping to 12/12?

What node spacing are you seeing during veg and during flower?

When you set your DWC buckets ppm are you testing it every 24hours for ppm and pH?

If not this is where you need to start.

If ppm in your bucket increases more than 100ppm in a 24 hour period then you'll need to reduce your buckets ppm down from its initial starting ppm

If after 24 hours your bucket ppm is testing lower than when it was set then you need to increase ppm.

Keep doing this every 24 hours and try to find the sweet spot whereby nutes and water are used at the same rate and ppm comes back at roughly where it was set too.

IMO when growing indoors under artificial lighting plant training is your best friend.

You want as many colas basking in the lighting sweetspot as you can.

To just grow a plant straight up without training etc is not making best use of your lighting unless you're running a SOG grow.



Just my 2 pennies worth.


J

Too many bottles, some of which do very little if nothing at all. Stop using molasses for flush, not only is flushing pointless unless you overfeed heavily, the molasses isn't doing anything. I don't know what you're reading, or who is telling you to use all this stuff, but you don't need it. Use just your base nutes and the aquashield/tea, forget the rest until you learn more. And topping 3x for the amount of veg time they're getting is hurting the yield too.

'ScrOG is not an option'. Well, there went your yield.

Look- growing indoors is by definition an artificial environment- therefore you need to do the physical manipulation to maximize light uptake because the plants themselves no longer has the appropriate tools.

Also, change your nutrient strength/dissolved solids scale to EC, it's less confusing. Chances are that you're running too little nutrient in your water, but there is no hard and fast rule as to what the right numbers are because they will change based on light levels, humidity and stage of the plants.

Every scrap of advice above is good as well, especially the parts about flushing and saving the molasses for your pancakes.

You need more light, better light and training techniques that actually help your plants produce.

You want some ideas about what's possible with RDWC, look at my thread, link in my Sig line.

Dunbar Santiago said:

Too many bottles, some of which do very little if nothing at all. Stop using molasses for flush, not only is flushing pointless unless you overfeed heavily, the molasses isn't doing anything. I don't know what you're reading, or who is telling you to use all this stuff, but you don't need it. Use just your base nutes and the aquashield/tea, forget the rest until you learn more. And topping 3x for the amount of veg time they're getting is hurting the yield too.

Click to expand...

I think you and SkyRocket are right! Seems like I did better my very 1st run on cheap 3 part nutes and a 400 watter and Ph'ing 2xs a day... Following too many instructions maybe trying to increase yields. The teas do keep the roots healthy though... Ph Perfect maybe not the godsend its supposed to be. Back to basics next run. Thanks.

ttystikk said:

'ScrOG is not an option'. Well, there went your yield.

Look- growing indoors is by definition an artificial environment- therefore you need to do the physical manipulation to maximize light uptake because the plants themselves no longer has the appropriate tools.

Also, change your nutrient strength/dissolved solids scale to EC, it's less confusing. Chances are that you're running too little nutrient in your water, but there is no hard and fast rule as to what the right numbers are because they will change based on light levels, humidity and stage of the plants.

Every scrap of advice above is good as well, especially the parts about flushing and saving the molasses for your pancakes.

You need more light, better light and training techniques that actually help your plants produce.

You want some ideas about what's possible with RDWC, look at my thread, link in my Sig line.

Click to expand...

Thanks ttystikk,
I'll be taking all advice into consideration.
Was running up to 1200 PPM with just base nutes and teas, then HygroHybrid (YouTube) taught PPM max 650. He gets great results but also scrogs. My closet has a 2ft depth making scrogging difficult so I use tomato cages to spread em out a bit. Average about 4-6 main colas but they never swell/bulk up like I've seen with other growers.

To the thread, Is there a limit to the number of times you should top the plants?

jondamon said:

Impressive veg and nice stretch?

Could you elaborate a little more?

What training are you doing during veg?

At what height are you flipping to 12/12?

What node spacing are you seeing during veg and during flower?

When you set your DWC buckets ppm are you testing it every 24hours for ppm and pH?

If not this is where you need to start.

If ppm in your bucket increases more than 100ppm in a 24 hour period then you'll need to reduce your buckets ppm down from its initial starting ppm

If after 24 hours your bucket ppm is testing lower than when it was set then you need to increase ppm.

Keep doing this every 24 hours and try to find the sweet spot whereby nutes and water are used at the same rate and ppm comes back at roughly where it was set too.

IMO when growing indoors under artificial lighting plant training is your best friend.

You want as many colas basking in the lighting sweetspot as you can.

To just grow a plant straight up without training etc is not making best use of your lighting unless you're running a SOG grow.



Just my 2 pennies worth.


J

Click to expand...

Thanks Jondamon.
Veg is very lush and healthy. They double in size/height in the 1st two weeks of flower so its a nice "stretch".
I top a few times in Veg and generally end up with 4-5 main colas and some nice off shoots. I also lollipop going into flower.
I Set PPMs to 600 in Flower, PH at 6.0. PhPerfect is supposed to chilleate (sp) and keep Ph optimal but I do check it once per day and balance as needed. Ph generally stays at 6.1.

Are you suggesting high stress training?

Thanks.

Btw...I've checked for light leaks too and there are none...

LoIQ2 said:

Thanks Jondamon.
Veg is very lush and healthy. They double in size/height in the 1st two weeks of flower so its a nice "stretch".
I top a few times in Veg and generally end up with 4-5 main colas and some nice off shoots. I also lollipop going into flower.
I Set PPMs to 600 in Flower, PH at 6.0. PhPerfect is supposed to chilleate (sp) and keep Ph optimal but I do check it once per day and balance as needed. Ph generally stays at 6.1.

Are you suggesting high stress training?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I'm suggesting you test ppm every 24hours and keep track of increases and decreases.

If you get an increase you should adjust it lower.

If you get a decrease you can increase.

This is all in a 24 hour period.

All I've heard you say is that you set your bucket to 600ppm and replenish it once a week.

Daily monitoring is essential for optimum growth.



J

jondamon said:

I'm suggesting you test ppm every 24hours and keep track of increases and decreases.

If you get an increase you should adjust it lower.

If you get a decrease you can increase.

This is all in a 24 hour period.

All I've heard you say is that you set your bucket to 600ppm and replenish it once a week.

Daily monitoring is essential for optimum growth.



J

Click to expand...

Ahhh, Point taken. PPM not Ph. I'll start tonite. Thanks.

PH IMO should have a natural drift between 5.2-6.2.

Not all ionic forms of nutrients are available at one specific pH which is why a drift in hydro is quite the norm.

Personally I've never used AN.

What I can tell you though is that I use basic 2 part base nutrient with a root stimulator and an enzyme product. A PK booster for flowering during one week. Additional Ca and Mg in mono form and a small amount of Si (potassium Silicat).


This alone sees me with pretty modest results that quite a few on RIU do not believe (even when I've produced weighing pics etc).



J

Anyone have any idea on what average yield to expect with a non scrog'd DWC with optimal conditions? I hear so much about aiming for 1g per watt but maybe a zip per bucket ain't so bad...? Your thoughts RIU.

I would aim for half your lights wattage in dry herb.

If using 400w aim for 200g.

600w aim for 300g etc.

I run coco medium and generally see yields around 1gpw.

Half my lights wattage in herb is what I class as a minimum amount for me to be happy and worthwhile growing.

DWC when done correctly can better most styles.

Go back to basics and only check and correct your ppm and pH levels once a day at the same time every day.




J

So its official, averaged about a zip per girl (3) under 600w using ph perfect. 106.5g dry total. .18g per watt. I'm so bummed... Does anyone know with the ph perfect if you should ph anyway? Used at 1/4 strength to keep ppms in 600s and needed to adjust ph every few days. Maybe that was the problem. PPMs were constant or higher if water levels were low. Can anyone recommend higher yielding strains that are easy to grow?
Gotta turn this around or give it up!

Thanks RIU.

The strains you are growing are good producers. It does not seem like you have enough light and nutes seem pretty low.

Da Mann said:

The strains you are growing are good producers. It does not seem like you have enough light and nutes seem pretty low.

Click to expand...

Thanks Da Mann. I am considering using full strength next run to see how it goes. I usually ph at water change with AN Ph Perfect nutes but still not sure if I should leave it alone after that or continue to adjust back to 5.9-6.0.