Help identify leaf discoloration please. Lots o' Pics Matey! RRRGGG

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Bcain

Active Member
Hi guys, first post, been lurking about a year or so. I'm having a problem with my girls and was hoping for some help from the experts.

I have a hydroponic wick system with 6 ladies on their second week of flowering under a 600w Hortilux Super HPS hung 19" above my plants. They were vegged under a 175W MH light with 5 extra Daylight CFL lights to supplement. The plants themselves are 20-22" tall.

The HPS is vented, the room is about 75 degrees, the canopy is closer to 85. The water temperature is 70 degrees.

PH balance is 6.5, I'm using water from a PUR filter on my faucet.

There are 3 bagseed plants and 3 Red Cherry Berries from clone. The bagseed plants are droopy and sad looking, the Red Cherry Berry is not droopy but does have leaf discoloration.

I'm feeding Fox Farms Hydro Nutes at the recommended dosage. 2tsp Grow Big, 1Tbl Big Bloom, 1/4 Beastie Bloomz per gallon. I have done a res flush within the last week.


Here are some pics of what is going on. You can see the discoloration in the leaves I am holding...those are toward the top of the plants. The lower, large fan leaves are also yellowing however I believe that is natural. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciate, I've had success in the past, but am still very new to this.
 

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B

Bcain

Active Member
Also, I did add some Nitrogen mix today thinking it may be a N deficiency...we'll see if that helps. If not I guess it could be magnesium? I dunno, you tell me...
 
Jeffdogg

Jeffdogg

Well-Known Member
Do you always keep your PH so high for your hydro? I've always read/heard that for hydro you should keep PH between between 5.6-5.8'ish. IMO it kinda looks like a phosphorus deficiency but dont hold me to it.
They do look a little light in color also. and the water temp is too high IMO. 57° is perfect (at least the urbangrower swears by it)

But they are looking pretty good bro :blsmoke:
 
Tyler Durden 77

Tyler Durden 77

Active Member
water temp is good! too cold and u run the risk of damaging the roots..... ph does need to come down though 5.7-5.9 is wha i keep mine at. though mostly 5.8! cant quite tell what that is..... however it seems to only be affectinga couple of leaves? not the complete plant??? Dunno I lack the experience and insight to diagnose this early..... But u r on the rite track....pay attention dont make drastic changes out of frustration. U could possibly do more BAD than good... Sorry wish i could b of further assistance. but im sure someone will chime in with the response ur looking for! USE THE FORCE.....lol Happy Growing
 
B

Bcain

Active Member
Jeffdogg said:
Do you always keep your PH so high for your hydro? I've always read/heard that for hydro you should keep PH between between 5.6-5.8'ish. IMO it kinda looks like a phosphorus deficiency but dont hold me to it.
They do look a little light in color also. and the water temp is too high IMO. 57° is perfect (at least the urbangrower swears by it)

But they are looking pretty good bro :blsmoke:
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Hey Jeff,

This is where I usually keep the PH...I have up and down but this is the PH with the nutes so I leave as is based on the Rosenthal grower's handbook...

They do look light in color to me as well. They showed no signs of problems during the vegging stages but once I put them into flower the problems developed rather quickly I felt.

Tyler Durden 77 said:
water temp is good! too cold and u run the risk of damaging the roots..... ph does need to come down though 5.7-5.9 is wha i keep mine at. though mostly 5.8! cant quite tell what that is..... however it seems to only be affectinga couple of leaves? not the complete plant??? Dunno I lack the experience and insight to diagnose this early..... But u r on the rite track....pay attention dont make drastic changes out of frustration. U could possibly do more BAD than good... Sorry wish i could b of further assistance. but im sure someone will chime in with the response ur looking for! USE THE FORCE.....lol Happy Growing
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Thanks Tyler, I will go ahead and adjust the PH after I retest from the addition of Nitrogen. As of now it is only affecting a few leaves, however I can see that the discoloration is spreading and more leaves are now showing little signs of discoloration.
 
Tyler Durden 77

Tyler Durden 77

Active Member
I feel ur sense of urgency, and we all love our little girls! Get off the thread and go to an expert growers thread Try to find "Uncle Ben" dude is RAW! knows fuckin everything from soil to hydro to aero???? i think hes a little pretentious? but hey who the fuck am i!... but chime in on a thread b humble apologize for intruding and im sure u will get the help u need! once again sorry for the lack of info, hope that helps though! Happy Growing
 
B

Bcain

Active Member
I added .75 mL to my 2gal res. of 5-0-0 to try to even it out. From what I gather from Uncle Ben, Fox Farms is dangerously low in nitrogen to support proper foilage development and maintenance. I'm going to switch over to something different after I run out of FF nutes, but for now I'll continue to supplement with N.
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
whoa bcain you need to take a step back my man, a good rule of thumb is since the plant is not technically flowering until you see bud sites which is around 2-3 weeks into 12/12 you should only feed grow ferts, back up off of the big bloom and beasties, i use beasties and i dont use it until 3 weeks into 12/12, like the bottle suggests. stay with the grow big till you see bud sites, this is how you will avoid premature yellowing (nitrogen def.) also whats the air pump situation looking like? those plants look like over watered, in a hydro setup this means you need a larger airpump. for my sake, flush your system with plain water ph'd at 5.5-5.8 ....a ph at 6.5 for extended periods will lockout nutrients
 
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Bcain

Active Member
Thanks for the reply morris, looks like I may have def. jumped the gun, lol. I'm using a basic aquarium air pump rated for 10 to 30 gallons with an 18" airstone in a 2 gal res.
 
B

Bcain

Active Member
So in comparing the Hydroponic schedule from the FoxFarms website that I've used throughout two grows now with what it says on the actual bottle is completely different. I'm not sure why, or if their schedule is actually a FLOWERING schedule and not meant to be used from birth-death. It would appear I've been doing this horribly wrong.

All this FoxFarms shit seems bunk to me. I ordered to Jack's Classic and will see if that saves the ladies. I'm going to flush now and start over with fresh water and just Grow Big for a week with a little bit of Nitrogen as well.
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
fox farms makes excellent nutrients with excellent ingredients, i dont know what jacks classic is, the FF is very forgiving if you overload it, you can also scrap the pur filter, unless you have sediment coming out of your faucet, at best the higher grade pur faucet model eliminates chlorine....FF feeding should go straight up grow big all the way up to 2weeks into 12/12, then use tiger bloom, the Big Bloom you have is just a P-K flowering booster, no nitrogen in it at all, it the tiger bloom that has all the micros and nitrogen in it, once in flower FF recommends you use the granulars, but personally i skip open sesame and only go straight to beasties and cha ching, i no longer use FF liquid but still like the powders as boosters
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bcain said:
So in comparing the Hydroponic schedule from the FoxFarms website that I've used throughout two grows now with what it says on the actual bottle is completely different. I'm not sure why, or if their schedule is actually a FLOWERING schedule and not meant to be used from birth-death. It would appear I've been doing this horribly wrong.

All this FoxFarms shit seems bunk to me. I ordered to Jack's Classic and will see if that saves the ladies. I'm going to flush now and start over with fresh water and just Grow Big for a week with a little bit of Nitrogen as well.
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For starts, FF has the N/K ratio ass backwards, as usual with most of these guys 3-2-6. http://www.specialty-lights.com/718540.html

Read my sig link. Those plants look stressed overall and the tell tale signs of copper colored dots in the leaves suggests too much salts. Notice the margin cupping on that last photo?
 
B

Bcain

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Howdy, and what would the source of that additional N be?
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Thanks for stopping by Uncle Ben,

I picked up my N source at the grow shop yesterday, it is "Nature's Nectar" organic Nitrogen 5-0-0. I have nothing against chemicals, this is just what they carry there.

This is my third grow and I'm learning that I must've gotten very, very lucky on my first one because I've been doing the nutes all wrong. I've been feeding Big Bloom from the start as the base nutrient and then feeding boosters as soon as I switch to 12/12 before the plants are even showing. I was blindly following the FF schedule and not really thinking about what I was giving my plants. So back to the drawing board for me, I have much to learn.

The Jack's Classic seems like a much less complex way to go with a proper NPK for what these ladies need, and its cheap so I ordered "The Dynamic Duo" which is the All Purpose and the Bloom Booster. I drained the res yesterday, filled back up with pure water, drained again and put in two gal of unfiltered water with 4 tsp of Grow Big and 2 tsp of N. Hopefully that will allow the plants to begin recovering while I prepare to switch nutes.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bcain said:
Thanks for stopping by Uncle Ben,

I picked up my N source at the grow shop yesterday, it is "Nature's Nectar" organic Nitrogen 5-0-0. I have nothing against chemicals, this is just what they carry there.
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I'm confused. Are you doing soil using a wick to water? Your organic N source is fine, it's gonna take a while to convert into a nitrate form, UNLESS, it contains a high N chemical salt, like urea. Another solution for more N in soil is to scratch about a tbsp. of blood meal into the top of the soil and water well. Blood meal is a fast source of organic N, and yes, if you overdo it, it will burn.

This is my third grow and I'm learning that I must've gotten very, very lucky on my first one because I've been doing the nutes all wrong. I've been feeding Big Bloom from the start as the base nutrient and then feeding boosters as soon as I switch to 12/12 before the plants are even showing. I was blindly following the FF schedule and not really thinking about what I was giving my plants. So back to the drawing board for me, I have much to learn.
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Yep, that's a fast track to leaf drop.

.....and put in two gal of unfiltered water with 4 tsp of Grow Big and 2 tsp of N. Hopefully that will allow the plants to begin recovering while I prepare to switch nutes.
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That's alot of salts! As a comparison, if you mixed a tablespoon of a Peters food in a gallon of water, applied it to the point of runoff, you'd have a clear case of nute burn showing up as leaf dots, margin curling, brown tips, etc.

I thought your Grow Big was a 3-2-6? Of course with the extra N it should work out, just watch for nute stress, see my sig link.

UB
 
SIRE

SIRE

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I'm confused.


Hello UNCLE BEN how r u? First let me start off by saying ur research and experience is so valued here(NO duh huh?) Well i noticed its hard to find information u write on the veeeery begining stages. i havent been able to even get to the intricate parts other people have seen its frusrating. i would like to b ur PETER PARKER UNCLE BEN lol. hopefully i can start fresh with u and go day to day with u. well lemme tell u bout what has happened and im sure you'll agree i need help.

a friend gave me some seeds and i took them and soaked em for 24hrs and then placed them in the paper towel. i then proceeded to make a vegatative box. i bought a rubbermaid tub and top. i cut 2 holes under each handle across from each other one slightly higher than the other and mounted 2 80 mm pc fans over the holes one for intake one for exhaust then i lined the tub with milar (i later changed to black and white paper) and mounted a 24'' t5's under the top. i purchased a hot house and promix bx with mycourse soil. once the tap root was visible i placed em in a party cup full of the soil and 15% perlite. but unfortunately the holes i cut was too small and the temp in the tub was 93 to 97 degrees. well in an attempt to cool it down i over watered and i ruined em. so i scratched that and planned to start over. so i cut bigger holes (which til this day the box b anywhere from 78-85 degrees now) and ordered some feminized seeds from DR GREENTHUMB called ENDLESS SKY. when i was at the nursery the guy told me i shouldnt use the promix bx cause its too strong to start seeds in. so he showed me these rooting plugs called RAPID ROOTS and some root hormones called THRIVE ALIVE. according to the label it said soak the plugs i did in distilled water. then it says leave water under them in the tray well i did that and BAM!fungus. i germed 4 and 3 was hit by fungus the other one had oval leaves and very miniture true leaves. so i first called the nursery and once he read the lable on the RAPID ROOTS he said thats probably for tomatoes or something not cannibas (gee thanks!) then i called DR GREENTHUMB and asked him why the leaves havent grown he said i needed to feed it 1\4 strength fertilizer and i shouldve been doin that from the beginning (germination). so i went again to the nursery and bought some biobizz bio grow, alg-a-mic and fishmix. the chart that came with the stuff said dont feed bio grow until after a week and the alga-a-mic 2 weeks so i didnt use it. eventually the one died sooooo once again for the 3rd time i started over. this time i germed 4 seeds. i squeezed out most of the water til it was 1 or 2 drops of distilled water coming out then i put 3 that was showin their tap root in the hot house one was(and still is) idle two were growing strong so once they sprouted i placed them under the t5's and the next morning they were slumped over they were kinda dry i added water to them and the one that dropped the seed shell grew back up the other didnt for whatever reason. i'm going to order other seeds but i first want to kinda get directions day to day with u how bout it? i'm too frustrated to keep doing this.
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B

Bcain

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
I'm confused. Are you doing soil using a wick to water? Your organic N source is fine, it's gonna take a while to convert into a nitrate form, UNLESS, it contains a high N chemical salt, like urea. Another solution for more N in soil is to scratch about a tbsp. of blood meal into the top of the soil and water well. Blood meal is a fast source of organic N, and yes, if you overdo it, it will burn.

Yep, that's a fast track to leaf drop.

That's alot of salts! As a comparison, if you mixed a tablespoon of a Peters food in a gallon of water, applied it to the point of runoff, you'd have a clear case of nute burn showing up as leaf dots, margin curling, brown tips, etc.

I thought your Grow Big was a 3-2-6? Of course with the extra N it should work out, just watch for nute stress, see my sig link.

UB
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No sir, its a hydroponic wick system, no soil. I followed guidelines from Rosenthal's Guide to make it, pretty simple deal.

The Grow Big is 3-2-6 and the bottle calls for 2 tsp / gallon. I've got two gal of water in the res so I added 4tsp and then 2 tsp of the N.

SIRE said:
Hello UNCLE BEN how r u? First let me start off by saying ur research.....etc etc etc.....
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WTF dude, are you serious taking over my thread in all bold? Go start your own thread! lol. No, for real though.
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
i believe me and UB are in agreement, too much salts/ferts. i know you only want the best for your plants and this will sometimes make a grower do too much too soon, you need to let the plant dictate to you what she needs
 
SIRE

SIRE

Well-Known Member
Bcain said:
No sir, its a hydroponic wick system, no soil. I followed guidelines from Rosenthal's Guide to make it, pretty simple deal.

The Grow Big is 3-2-6 and the bottle calls for 2 tsp / gallon. I've got two gal of water in the res so I added 4tsp and then 2 tsp of the N.



WTF dude, are you serious taking over my thread in all bold? Go start your own thread! lol. No, for real though.
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apologies friend im new to all this and i accidentally hit the bold my fault just a little frustrated
 
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