help me.. ive put sooo much into this grow and the bugs just ate it....

i know i half hazardly put all of my first paychecks into this gro with the seed imports clones lights (t5) mylar nutes easily $400+ i just got rid of my fungus gnats but my seedlings are almost all but dead ( im guessing the second spray of sm-90 was too much......) now these 2 pics r my clones one sour diesel one bluberry sour d... please help please....
all the old leaves keep dieing off to make energy for the new leaves but its dieing faster than growing.... too much water?? too much nutes???? nutrient lockout?? ph inbalance???

I see a little bit of everything going on. It looks like a bunch of macro lockout, probably caused by an imbalance in micro nutrients, or a lot of different things! lol.

Give us some info.

How old are the plants? What is your room temp for day/night? RH for day/night? Nutrient pH, Medium pH, run-off pH, or at least 2/3 of those? What kind of medium is it in and who makes it? Is it your own blend, if so what's in it? What are you feeding them, how much, how often, and what size containers are they in? How long ago was the last time you feed them? How long ago was the last time you sprayed them?

If we can't be in your grow room, you have to really paint the picture for us for a decent diagnosis.

Jozikins said:

I see a little bit of everything going on. It looks like a bunch of macro lockout, probably caused by an imbalance in micro nutrients, or a lot of different things! lol.

Give us some info.

How old are the plants? What is your room temp for day/night? RH for day/night? Nutrient pH, Medium pH, run-off pH, or at least 2/3 of those? What kind of medium is it in and who makes it? Is it your own blend, if so what's in it? What are you feeding them, how much, how often, and what size containers are they in? How long ago was the last time you feed them? How long ago was the last time you sprayed them?

If we can't be in your grow room, you have to really paint the picture for us for a decent diagnosis.

Click to expand...

well the temps range from 60 to 85 only on the hottest day we had i have no ph testing kit but i use the filtered water from my fridge.... its kellogs patio plus soil i used big bloom and grow big of the fox farm line at half strength over 2 weeks ago but im only ussing fresh water now, (2days ago) i sprayed them last 3 days ago.... the clones are about 3 weeks since i bought them but the seeds have been going since february and are only on their 4th/5th node standing at one to two inches....... its pathetic and i constantly insult myself..

Problem #1 - Lack of pH equipment. Successfully growing quality cannabis without knowing your pH is like finding the needle in the haystack. This is a necessary expense above all other equipment.

Problem #2 - Kellog's Patio Plus. Kellog's is actually owned by the SunGro corporation, who is very good at what they do, and cater to nurseries, if that helps establish any ethos for them. However, the Patio Plus formula is not made for cannabis, and is really an amendment for your garden soil, at best. It is important to contact Kellog and find out if there is any dirt in there mix at all. Many bagged "soils" are really soiless, as in, no dirt. Any cannabis growing in a no-dirt medium, should be grown at 5.6 - 6.3 pH range, while dirt is 6.5-7.5, or something like that, I've never grown in dirt, but might try it this season. Nothing wrong with growing in dirt, even if the hydro growers be hating.

It took subcool years and years and years to find a soil mix that doesn't need supplemental feeding, and unless you use a formula like his, or take the time needed to perfect your own mix, you will have to feed your plants. At this point I feel that they could absolutely use some of that Fox Farm about now! 25%-50% on Fox Farm, but you can honestly give Big Bloom full strength later on when you're feeling brave.

Seedlings cannot handle strong soils, or much food at all. Your Kellog's is very hot straight out of the bag, and it would explain the seed and clones struggling through the initial grow period.


My first grow was horrible, I had a much better start than you did, but in the end the flowers were so horrible they were unsmokable, and it all went into hash, which wasn't so good either. Do not beat yourself up too much over this first grow, you will put blood, sweat, and tears in, and probably get nothing out of your first run. You will learn a shit load from this though.

Based on the fact that the plants have been in the soil for so long, the age of the plants, and the fact that they've been getting only water for 2 weeks, this definitely tells me they are hungry! Bring on the fox farm, and at least get some litmus paper to check your solution pH and your run-off pH. You can adjust pH with your buffers you purchase, or you can use lemon juice (acidic) and baking soda (alkaline).

so what ph kit online would you recomend? so i test the water before i water and the water that drips out from the bottom?

Exactly. Once you determine your grow medium's pH, you can begin adjusting your nutrient solution to compensate for any differences.

Litmus paper is litmus paper, it does not matter who is making it IMO. I would choose something highly rated and reviewed. But I do highly recommend a quality meter from any respectable brand. I personally avoid Milwaukee products, as they've had a very high failure rate with me and needed constant calibration. For a simple pH meter, Oakton makes a great and affordable one, it has lasted me 4 years so far with 0 problems! I highly recommend spending extra money to get a water proofed unit. Hanna and Blue Lab are often regarded as the best meters on the market. I own a Hanna trimeter myself, and my buddy owns a Blue Lab pH stick, you can't go wrong either way.

I also recommend a PPM meter for your nutrients, you can save money by purchasing a quality combo unit. These units are usually a deluxe model and are of a higher quality than stand-alone units. A PPM meter is not necessary to grow cannabis, but sure makes it a hell of a lot easier, eliminate all the guess work you can.

http://www.isopurewater.com/product.asp?itemid=3954&gclid=CJPNkuXMyLYCFQ9dQgodjxQAnQ Perfect high quality meter for the grower on a budget.

I 100% agree with Jozikins. pH Meter is the most important thing to have, making sure your plants uptake the proper nutrients they need to thrive. Ive went through 3 hanna meters, all garbage IMO. Spent the extra 45$ for a bluelab and love it. Accurate, fast, and reliable. tells you when to calibrate and if theres any errors when reading. Takes all of the guessing out of the matter.

My first grow I had the least amount of tools possible, shitty grow box, MG soil, a few CFLs, and a fan with tap water, NO NUTES, and it hurt at the end. Like Jozikins said, my first batch was barley smokable either. But it taught me many things you need to experiment with and not just read and hope to remember.

Stepped it up on this grow im on buying good gentics, grow tent, ph meter, good medium, good nutes, digital timer, inline fan, etc... My grow is going great.

Like already said, take as much of the guess work out as possible and everything should run a lot smoother. Good luck!

im sorry for making you hold my hand but do you mean these?
http://www.amazon.com/Bluelab-BLU2210-pH-Pen/dp/B005HKRPZG/ref=pd_sim_lg_4
http://www.amazon.com/Bluelab-pH-Pen/dp/B005POOJHG/ref=pd_sim_lg_1
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Lab-Commercial-Truncheon-Meter/dp/B0002NLKH2/ref=pd_sim_lg_3
i understand ph but i have no honest clue what PPM CF or EC is

PPM (Parts Per Million) is an Imperial read out, EC (electrical conductivity) is Metric, I believe CF relates to EC, it means Conductivity Factor. Both measure the total amount of dissolved solids (TDS) in your water. So let's talk PPM since that's what I know best. Just as the name indicates, it gives you a numerical read out to measure out, on a scale of 1 million, how much food or particles are in the water (TDS).

Basically, it will tell you how strong your liquid feedings are.

Quick vocab review, lol:
PPM: Parts Per Million
TDS: Total Dissolved Solids
EC: Electrical Conductivity
CF: Conductivity Factor

I see severe nutrient deficiency. PH should be 6.5 for soil mixes. You need Cal-Mag at every watering. Make sure temps are between 75-81F Make sure your pots are getting bone dry when you stick your finger in before you water again. Plants that small can be feed-water-water-feed in that order. I use Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow and Bloom PH perect, try it out. It will auto adjust your PH so you won't have to worry about that aspect and YES IT WORKS!! I have tested these Nutes extensively and they take about 15 minutes for the PH to get to 6.5 and it always works. You may think why should I buy Advanced they are so expensive. Trust me when I say that a little goes a VERY VERY long way with this brand. It actually becomes cheaper to run Advanced when compared to other brands because of how little product you actually use. I suggest you try it if you are having PH problems. Also Humidity should be 40% 50% MAX, you do not want any mold or mildew growing. For bugs I suggest you spray Neem Oil every 3 days if you have bugs and if you don't have them spray once a week. Mix Dr Bonners soap (mint scent) with Dyna Grow Neem Oil and spray. DO NOT SPRAY THEM UNDER LIGHTS EVER!!! I can't stress this enough. Take the plants out of the room, let them sit for 15-30 minutes and then spray. Let them dry completely and then put them back in the room. Make sure you spray the under side of the leaves.

so i called the company, they said there is no dirt in the potting mix and that there standard PH is 7.5 does this add helpful perspective to my dilema?

would a viable option be to mix real dirt with the patio plus soil?? and then transplant them to that for a more natural ph?