help me picking a custom ratio

hey guys, i might order a 8-band ufo with 45*3w epistars - intended for flower. pls help me with the ratios
this is what i have in mind atm:


660nm red (19)
460nm blue (6)
600nm orange (4)
2400-2700k warm white (4)
4000k neutral white (4)
6400k white (2)
8000-14000k cold white (2)
730nm infrared (2)
UV B (2)


660nm red: hoping for 'hash tips' and an article claimed that only 660nm red should be used for best results.
UV: can a 3w uv led that's on for 12hrs/day harm the plant? i have a brand new 25000k 130w cfl that can be used for the same purpose and i would run it only 5*1hrs/day. BUT, i also want a do-it-all led light and a clutter free tent.

three whites for full spectrum; i feel i need more warm white in there. maybe less red and more warm whites?

ok this is all, is there any other wavelength that the plants might miss and not on this list?

Don't get uv and IR diodes. Those run usually less than 1 watt. The newer whites have uv, blue, red, amber, green, and IR in them I'd say go with:

15 660nm
15 630nm
15 6000k or 5000k

Personally, I'd use the CFL for UV.

Here's what I'm feeling this moment. Likely to change with mood.

730nm : 660nm : 630nm : 2400-2700k : 4000k : 460nm : 430-440nm
1 : 18 : 2 : 18 : 3 : 1 : 2

I'm thinking the increased number of Warm Whites will take care of the reduced number of 460nm's and 730nm's, as well as removing the 600nm's. I'd like to use a couple 430-440nm Blue's to replace the Cool and Cold White's. I'm trying to reduce the amount of Green light on the plants. Green light tends to trick the plant into thinking it's in a shaded environment which promotes stretch. Also, I removed the UV B hoping you'll just use the CFL bulb.

This is just my take on things; another view point. Take from it what you want. I think your ratio is good, too.

thanks hyroot, that's really good to know! so whites are great huh?

Bumping Spheda said:

Green light tends to trick the plant into thinking it's in a shaded environment which promotes stretch..

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You learn something everyday... Thank you Spheda

Ya.whites are good. I never heard or read that about green. Green light is absorbed and reflected at the same time. Green also helps chlorophyll absorb more photons in other areas. I dont think green promotes stretching. Plants only absorb a narrow bandwith of 20% intensity at most. Thats all the green you want. Hps puts out 80% more green than plants can absorb.

Too much blue in 460nm area will definitely promote stretch during veg. Too much red will promote stretch during flower.

Green promoted stretch in this study. No light was removed, only the addition of Green light. The plant went crazy thinking it was in a shaded environment and stretched to find higher light saturation areas, even though the control group was perfectly happy/healthy.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/157/3/1528.full?sid=ff680d71-27f2-4166-8cd3-c17d03c265b4

Makes sense to me. I didn't perform the study, nor have I done anything similar with cannabis. I can't tell you 100% Green light promotes stretch in all plants, but this is enough information for me to want to avoid LED's with large to moderate amounts of Green in them. Even if the plant absorbs the Green light, what is the plant doing with that energy? If it's sending signals to the rest of the plant saying, "Hey, start stretching, guys, some mofo's over us blockin' our light," then I think I'll pass.

Green also helps chlorophyll absorb more photons in other areas.

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I heard about that study. They used small amounts of Green light and shined it on the undersides of leaves in order to allow the plant to absorb more light, or something along those lines. It was a crazy, unorthodox growing method that I don't think anyone would actually follow. You might be talking about something else, entirely, come to think of it.

I'll try to find the study on that one.

Well it said with blue / green shaded occurs elongated stems full green growth. With far red added it creates shade avoidance. Read the whole thing...

Good find and good read though.

Check this study

http://m.jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/11/3107.full

Cool study. Thanks for the link. Lol, why didn't you post this link in that jag off's "All Red" thread? Didn't you see it? Douche bag vomited on me.

As for the study I linked, I think this is what you are referring to, right? If not care to quote it?

Simultaneously, green signals induce gene expression patterns that resemble those induced by far-red light, except that cryptochrome receptors appear to block the changes in gene expression in the presence of green light and the absence of far-red light. The model shows that multiple light receptors coordinate adaptation to a light environment based on input from several portions of the light spectrum.

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This is sort of their "conclusion,"

The findings of this study show that the addition of green wavebands to a background of blue and red light induces the familiar shaded plant architecture. These results are significant in that symptoms develop with increasing fluence rate, a finding that is in opposition to what is known about the generation of shade phenotypes by low-light environments. Gene expression changes distinguish the green response from the far-red response and implicate the green-absorbing form of cryptochromes to connect green control of shade-induced transcripts that are normally induced by low R:FR. While surprising at first, these results show that plants maintain additional means to adapt to a changing light environment and remind us that plants are sensitive to a broad series of inputs to shape plant form and function.

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I'm still hesitant to add moderate amounts of Green to my spectrum. I like how many of the Neutral and Cool White LED's have a lower wavelength Blue peak, but they also have increased outputs of Green which I'm wary of. Agree to disagree, I guess. In a perfect world, I'd have a custom 2395k CCT multichip LED made with both 440nm and 460nm dice. <<< Working on it. I think I will also add 10% or so of 660nm dice. CCT at that point is difficult to predict, but relatively unimportant, imo.

great info everyone. some of it over my head the led manufacturer is not too forthcoming with info, pushing me to make an uninformed purchase, so now i am thinking to just supplement my two led lights (120w 7:1:1 RBO & 90w RBO ufo (both 1w leds)) with just a few warm/cool cfl's and see what happens. the tent is only 3x2x5' and this is my 1st grow - three weeks in veg, will go for another week i think and then flip to 12/12.

I've heard good things about those RBO panels on eBay, even specifically with CFL supplement.

Why not buy two 120W panels, though? Using the BIN option those 90W UFO's are $1.22/W and the 120W panels are $1.05/W. No idea what the bid wars end up at.

Bumping Spheda said:

I've heard good things about those RBO panels on eBay, even specifically with CFL supplement.

Why not buy two 120W panels, though? Using the BIN option those 90W UFO's are $1.22/W and the 120W panels are $1.05/W. No idea what the bid wars end up at.

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bumping spheda - yes, they are offering custom ratios with 116*1w bridgelux lights, just asked for a quote for a 64 Red, 12 Blue, 12 Orange, 16 warm white, 12 daylight white (6000-6500K). approx 5:1:1:1:1 with 120 deg. lenses. how does that sound? less r&b and more ww?
waiting for the reply, will see... i like their unit i have b/c it's so0 silent.

originally i wanted 3w leds, but will go with 1w if i like the deal... if not, i will work with cfls, i am running out of options (vendors).

thanks pf, that's an interesting ratio, do you know grows with that? but yeah, that seems to be the trend.

thanks pf, that's an interesting ratio, do you know grows with that?

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Astir, I believe. Something along those lines, at least.

If they increase the price much I say drop it. You can make your own 100W spotlight for <$1/W pretty easily. CFL's are cool, too.

The new Philips "MasterColor" series is getting some nice buzz.
http://1000bulbs.com/product/57255/MHS-0150130229.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=MHS-0150130229&utm_content=150+Watt+-+Medium+Base+-+Pulse+Start+Metal+Halide&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CMr1wJTU-bQCFUeRPAodoVcA6g

ok, they replied and are offering 3w*112 leds customized, so it's a completely different animal. i asked about the actual draw, heatsink and led brand. yielding to this thread i asked for 20% red, 50% warm white, 15% neutral white, 10% orange and 5% 740nm IR, but i feel 3w*112 is more than i need and i still dunno the price. next round.

when i was a 7yo, i broke a thermometer and played with the mercury for hours. it was fun. only if i knew... ;-(

$.86/W for the 3Wx112 on eBay. Of course these aren't actual Watts, but it's getting much better.

I don't think you need the Orange given the number of Warm Whites. I say add it to WW or split it between WW and Red.

Lookin' good.

To all the green nay-sayers: There are pigments/organelles within plants that do use green (and other wavelengths of) light... perhaps not for vegetative growth or direct bud development, but often in the synthesis of other desirable chemical compounds. Looking into existing research can provide some insight into the different wavelengths of light used by plants, with guesses as to what those wavelengths are used for.