Help me solve my airy buds.

MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
It is light intensity that causes fox tail and airy ,"Broccoli" TY @bk78 , buds here. My grows in 70% + possible sunshine are always dense. When under that I get feather dusters.

@Wizzlebiz I find progressive harvesting from top down, as it ripens, to be very good at increasing ripeness. Yet again it is the bud position on the food ladder and light availability. LST, scrog or side light. Better still is vertical.

And did Calvin clown steal your pics?

Good morning to all.

And my opinions.
 
Codeman34

Codeman34

Active Member
xtsho said:
I've had some extremely high temps as I use HID lighting. The 600 watt HPS is not a very friendly low heat light in the middle of summer. But even then I still ended up with rock hard buds when sometimes the temps were in the mid to upper 80's and pushing into the 90's on really hot days.

I think coco handles heat better than soil and I was using Blumats so the substrate never dried out and maintained a constant moisture level. There are different factors that affect how a plant responds in high temperature situations.
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Yeah see I didn’t keep it moist I fucked up and let it get dry a lot of times cause I have other projects going on and slap forgot it sucks. Like I have 3 autos in 1 gallon pots and they are like 8 inches tall maybe 12 inches and I need to transplant them but forgot and now they flowering so if I transplant them will they get bigger or stay small since I fucked up.
 
Wizzlebiz

Wizzlebiz

Well-Known Member
MICHI-CAN said:
It is light intensity that causes fox tail and airy ,"Broccoli" TY @bk78 , buds here. My grows in 70% + possible sunshine are always dense. When under that I get feather dusters.

@Wizzlebiz I find progressive harvesting from top down, as it ripens, to be very good at increasing ripeness. Yet again it is the bud position on the food ladder and light availability. LST, scrog or side light. Better still is vertical.

And did Calvin clown steal your pics?

Good morning to all.

And my opinions.
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I have no issue with staged chopping. I do it as well. I just didn't want to leave this person with a misconception that allowing lower buds to ripen after chopping the tops will equate to denser lower buds.
 
MAGpie81

MAGpie81

Well-Known Member
Codeman34 said:
Alright guys, So I have been growing for about 2 years. I’ve had some really good grows that have some good buds for sure. But I have been messing with autoflowers here recently and I like them but idk what’s up. So this harvest tje top buds are nice and thick and dense like they should be but you go down a row or two and the buds get airy and terrible idk why? I have 2 mars hydro which gives me 600 watt in a 4x4 tent idk why I can’t get nice thick buds. Any help would be great. I also feed them little of general hydro trio.
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Carefully bending the colas over and lightly tying them back to the main stem, creating a hook, can help the lower buds pack-on more. I also have a friend who swears by letting them get pretty thirsty before watering. I will say his nugs are pretty dense.
Probably has a lot do with genetics, too. I grow sativa and one is a landrace; they are typically a bit more airy.
 
Codeman34

Codeman34

Active Member
MAGpie81 said:
Carefully bending the colas over and lightly tying them back to the main stem, creating a hook, can help. I also have a friend who swears by letting them get pretty thirsty before watering. I will say his nugs are pretty dense.
Probably has a lot do with genetics, too. I grow sativa and one is a landrace; they are typically a bit more airy.
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I mean I don’t mind the airy buds as they smoke good still but for bag appeal and looks it’s always better to have a nice thick dense bud to me atleast. You don’t want no girl with a flat ass. You want her to have that nice thick ass ya know lol
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
As michi stated, its all proximity. The couple of autos i haven't topped or trained have all had some fluff on the bottom half, and periodic harvesting followed by lowering of lights have done the job.

I mainly find it happens indoors as the flux drops off dramatically over distance with a finite light source. Generally doesn't happen to my outdoors if i open the plant up as the intensity doesn't drop over a meter or so thanks to the sun being a straihgt savage. .
 
Codeman34

Codeman34

Active Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
As michi stated, its all proximity. The couple of autos i haven't topped or trained have all had some fluff on the bottom half, and periodic harvesting followed by lowering of lights have done the job.

I mainly find it happens indoors as the flux drops off dramatically over distance with a finite light source. Generally doesn't happen to my outdoors if i open the plant up as the intensity doesn't drop over a meter or so thanks to the sun being a straihgt savage. .
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Yeah that is true. I might switch some shit up this round and kee lights lower and spread the legs on them girls and see if I can get a better packed plant.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
Codeman34 said:
Yeah that is true. I might switch some shit up this round and kee lights lower and spread the legs on them girls and see if I can get a better packed plant.
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last time i didnt top or train, the plant was 13" from the light up top and somehting like 40" at the bottom. The main cola was getting 1100umol/s and the lower branches were getting something like 380umol/s. It ate me up daily. Oh how i regret getting a light meter.
 
Sunbiz1

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Codeman34 said:
That’s the issue my temps went high cause I didn’t have my ac in so it got up to 90 high during day and 83 low during day maybe so I know that’s to hot which would cause that
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When indoor temps go above 80 or so, all sorts of bad things happen; no matter the strain.
Oils and terpines begin to evaporate off, it's why during summer months I either flower in an A/C cooled room; or I don't bother growing at all indoors. If you are able to, I'd still ditch autos if possible. I've done comparisons from the same breeder, and always had better results using their feminized seed as opposed to their autos...same strain too.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
last time i didnt top or train, the plant was 13" from the light up top and somehting like 40" at the bottom. The main cola was getting 1100umol/s and the lower branches were getting something like 380umol/s. It ate me up daily. Oh how i regret getting a light meter.
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Our plants are extremely accurate meters if we can learn to read or translate their actions.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
Sunbiz1 said:
Definitely agree, had it a few years back; after not changing the bulbs in time.
But 90 degrees certainly doesn't help either.
Have a great day!
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I feel your pain. Last run I had temps upwards of 110f quite a few times. Ambient was at 97f and my AC had blown for that week and a half. I had ran the ak420 autos before, and the last ended up with half the smell and taste, and the structure just wasn't there.

Now I Know why I skipped summer last year lol.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Sunbiz1 said:
Definitely agree, had it a few years back; after not changing the bulbs in time.
But 90 degrees certainly doesn't help either.
Have a great day!
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I'm still on the fence there. My tent used to hit 95F with cobs. Nice density. And my green house regularly goes over 106F in early flower. Nice buds with adequate light.

Again just my opinion as based on my things here.
 
Codeman34

Codeman34

Active Member
MICHI-CAN said:
I'm still on the fence there. My tent used to hit 95F with cobs. Nice density. And my green house regularly goes over 106F in early flower. Nice buds with adequate light.

Again just my opinion as based on my things here.
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Well what’s your opinion or thoughts on what would cause airy buds lack of food? Lack of air flow?
 
Sunbiz1

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
I feel your pain. Last run I had temps upwards of 110f quite a few times. Ambient was at 97f and my AC had blown for that week and a half. I had ran the ak420 autos before, and the last ended up with half the smell and taste, and the structure just wasn't there.

Now I Know why I skipped summer last year lol.
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Even in the basement, my summer grows are never up to par with winter; cannabis seems to prefer temps in the 70's indoors.
When temps are cooler, my fan leaves are in prayer mode; like now...pointing to the heavens!
It's related to microbial activity in top several inches of root zones, or so I've read.
One summer I had to move my ladies from the basement to the AC cooled 2nd floor, due to new sewer line installation.
They were so much happier up there, I left them; humidity was much lower as well; which also plays a factor.
 
madvillian420

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
The below advice is all assuming your temps are in order, as high temps are a main culprit in disappointing harvests.

My bias is showing but id ditch the lights for something better and use those for veg or something.

New light or not, get a ~$30 light meter and stop playing guessing games about your light intensity and subsequent lack of nug density.

As others have said, LST,SCROG,lollipopping etc will get you a more uniform canopy and improve your airy larf issues.

Genetics also play a factor. Some of my strains are fairly dense/airy in the same tent as plants that are the opposite. Pheno hunting exists for a reason.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
madvillian420 said:
The below advice is all assuming your temps are in order, as high temps are a main culprit in disappointing harvests.

My bias is showing but id ditch the lights for something better and use those for veg or something.

New light or not, get a ~$30 light meter and stop playing guessing games about your light intensity and subsequent lack of nug density.

As others have said, LST,SCROG,lollipopping etc will get you a more uniform canopy and improve your airy larf issues.

Genetics also play a factor. Some of my strains are fairly dense/airy in the same tent as plants that are the opposite. Pheno hunting exists for a reason.
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One gripe. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 600w worth of TS 20000. Perfectly adequate. If you think 600w will only do for veg in a 4x4, something's up.

This was grown under a god damn ts600 (100w, same spectrum) and filled a 2x4 by itself, which would be the equivalent of 1/3 of the intensity he has at the same spectrum
IMG20210711103841.jpg
 
madvillian420

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
One gripe. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 600w worth of TS 20000. Perfectly adequate. If you think 600w will only do for veg in a 4x4, something's up.

This was grown under a god damn ts600 (100w, same spectrum) and filled a 2x4 by itself, which would be the equivalent of 1/3 of the intensity he has at the same spectrum
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Theres more to happy harvests than wattage imo. I run 500w in a space smaller than 3x3'. But again, im admittedly biased lol.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
madvillian420 said:
Theres more to happy harvests than wattage imo. I run 500w in a space smaller than 3x3'. But again, im admittedly biased lol.
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600w worth of LED should pull around 2lb if coverage is up to scratch. My first three grows were at 1.48, 1.65 and 1.56g per watt, and I was a dead newbie that made quite a few mistakes.

I'd say growing technique is more important than throwing extra wattage at the plants at this stage. I've seen 810g pulled off a single mars fc4800, and a pound from a TS 20000 in a 80x80x160, they are quite capable.

People claim upwards of 2g per watt, but I think that's a bit of a stretch.
 
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