Help, vote, thoughts. Thanks all

Original post @ https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-help-with-plants-please.964774/

Ok its been at least 2-3 waterings with RO only. Looks to have got worse in the past few days. Purpling on stems and leaf veins has increased. Spotting in-between leaf margins and tips mid-plant has increased, with light spotting starting on some new growth. Old growth yellowing out, burnt leafs.
I have to believe its a Magnesium deficiency or potassium deficiency. I gave them half strength nutes at around 400ppm at 6.3 ph. 3ml of cal/mag, 4ml veg nutes, Natural ph up.

Thoughts? thinking I should go water, feed 1:1 or do you think in order to get back on track OR just keep feeding light doses and go straight water every 3rd feeding??

Nothing like growing herb to keep you on your toes and humble. Thanks all.

Hi

Tbh it looks mostly calcium deficient to me.

What is your soil's ph? Not your water or waste.
Find the actual ph of your soil.
Personally ive, never, ever needed to ph my water running organic soil.
I personally dont like the sound of acidic waterings to soil. Imho the water will pass through. But the acid attaches to media on the way through. Builds up over time, throws the equilibrium around, and causes an anaerobic root zone.
I personally like to amend my soil instead.
What was your soil's ph before you planted?
Whats the soils ph now?
What were your amendments in the beginning?
Whats the npk% on the nutrient you're using?
I realise you're using RO. But whats the ph?
Whats the ph of your straight tap water too?
Can you get a read of ec/ppms of your tap water too?

I dont think the issue is a big deal. The plant looks pretty healthy.
But ive run into low ph problems with coco coir, and my leaves always started yellowing just like yours.
Calcium is usually the first to lock up, if the ph is too low in the root zone.

Share the information, to the questions i asked.
But im inclined to give them straight, unadulterated, fresh water. Next watering. Even half RO / half tap. (just depends on the ppm of your tap water)

Good luck OP

Ph lock out...pics so nute burn, P and N deficiency. Do you have Pulverized Dolomitic lime in soil? I can only guess you have a low ph soil. I would flush with ph 7 water. Then next watering a 6.5 ph with something like Fish shit (the brand) .

Tim1987 said:

Hi

Tbh it looks mostly calcium deficient to me.

What is your soil's ph? Not your water or waste.
Find the actual ph of your soil.
Personally ive, never, ever needed to ph my water running organic soil.
I personally dont like the sound of acidic waterings to soil. Imho the water will pass through. But the acid attaches to media on the way through. Builds up over time, throws the equilibrium around, and causes an anaerobic root zone.
I personally like to amend my soil instead.
What was your soil's ph before you planted?
Whats the soils ph now?
What were your amendments in the beginning?
Whats the npk% on the nutrient you're using?
I realise you're using RO. But whats the ph?
Whats the ph of your straight tap water too?
Can you get a read of ec/ppms of your tap water too?

I dont think the issue is a big deal. The plant looks pretty healthy.
But ive run into low ph problems with coco coir, and my leaves always started yellowing just like yours.
Calcium is usually the first to lock up, if the ph is too low in the root zone.

Share the information, to the questions i asked.
But im inclined to give them straight, unadulterated, fresh water. Next watering. Even half RO / half tap. (just depends on the ppm of your tap water)

Good luck OP

Click to expand...

Right, I normally never PH my nutes been running them for years now. Just started to, wanted to see if it would help whatever is going on. I see no difference.
My soil PH out of bag is 6.5ish it's about 6.3-6.4 now.
Happy frog, OF mix with 30% more perlite. On this mix. No additional amendments.
General organics grow 4-3-3 & cal mag + 1.0.0
PH of RO water is 7.0 with 12 -15 ppm

I just gave them 2 - 3 waterings straight RO and I believe it made them worse. I also think my soil PH could be slightly higher & PH soil related issues crossed my mind. I have hardly been feeding them and just gave them a light dose at 350ppm.

AmericanGrower508 said:

Ph lock out...pics so nute burn, P and N deficiency. Do you have Pulverized Dolomitic lime in soil? I can only guess you have a low ph soil. I would flush with ph 7 water. Then next watering a 6.5 ph with something like Fish shit (the brand) .

Click to expand...

Soil PH is currently like 6.3, I see a lot of mixed info on what s the best soil PH. I just did 2-3 waterings with ro only.

gardensofgreen420! said:

Right, I normally never PH my nutes been running them for years now. Just started to, wanted to see if it would help whatever is going on. I see no difference.
My soil PH out of bag is 6.5ish it's about 6.3-6.4 now.
Happy frog, OF mix with 30% more perlite. On this mix. No additional amendments.
General organics grow 4-3-3 & cal mag + 1.0.0
PH of RO water is 7.0 with 12 -15 ppm

I just gave them 2 - 3 waterings straight RO and I believe it made them worse. I also think my soil PH could be slightly higher & PH soil related issues crossed my mind. I have hardly been feeding them and just gave them a light dose at 350ppm.

Click to expand...

Ok cool.
How did you test soil ph?
If thats the ph from testing with a slurry. I think thats cool.
I would personally cut the calmag myself. Not needed imo. Whats the calmag% on the back of your 4-3-3? Theres probably heaps already. Despite what calcium is in your soil.
Do you have a more balanced nutrient by any chance? Or a bloom booster? Whats the npk% on those? Recommended doses too?

How many times in a week are you watering?
How long is the pot taking to dry?
How large is the pot?
How much waste comes through the pot, when you water?

Tim1987 said:

Ok cool.
How did you test soil ph?
If thats the ph from testing with a slurry. I think thats cool.
I would personally cut the calmag myself. Not needed imo. Whats the calmag% on the back of your 4-3-3? Theres probably heaps already. Despite what calcium is in your soil.
Do you have a more balanced nutrient by any chance? Or a bloom booster? Whats the npk% on those? Recommended doses too?

How many times in a week are you watering?
How long is the pot taking to dry?
How large is the pot?
How much waste comes through the pot, when you water?

Click to expand...

I did a rapidtest with the pills and I soaked the soil in RO water for 30 mins and checked with my hanna meter, a few times.
Why do you say cut the cal/mag when I am using RO water? theres no cal on back of grow only Mg 0.5 and suffer 1.0. Keep in mind this is soil and there is some in the soil. Just none in the water as it is RO water. Most of the plants are in 1 gal pots and those seem to be the ones with problems the most as they are long overdue for a move to a 3 gal. The ones I have in 3 gal pots seem to be showing a lot less issues.

the stuff in 1 gal pot watering every day to two days with 20% run off

gardensofgreen420! said:

I did a rapidtest with the pills and I soaked the soil in RO water for 30 mins and checked with my hanna meter, a few times.
Why do you say cut the cal/mag when I am using RO water? theres no cal on back of grow only Mg 0.5 and suffer 1.0. Keep in mind this is soil and there is some in the soil. Just none in the water as it is RO water. Most of the plants are in 1 gal pots and those seem to be the ones with problems the most as they are long overdue for a move to a 3 gal. The ones I have in 3 gal pots seem to be showing a lot less issues.

the stuff in 1 gal pot watering every day to two days with 20% run off

Click to expand...

Ok cool.
Low potassium can antagonise calcium, and magnesium. K deficiency doesnt show in the form of a deficiency. Its more of an antagonist and causes lock out of other nutrients. Usually calmag being the first. If K is low. Usually calmag issues are the first to show.
Being an npk of 4-3-3, plus a dose of calmag at the same mL. Would make it a 5-3-3. Imho something balanced like a 5-5-5 would be better.

It also makes sense to be seeing symptoms like these if you're root bound for sure. Especially since the ones in larger pots are fine.

My suggestion is transplanting to bigger pots. Adding a little gypsum, and maybe a tiny little Epsom salts mixing the soil, to amend. Watering it in with plain RO water. Just a tiny smidgen of calmag, if you really want to use it. Less than the recommended dose. All you need is a tiny charge in the water to help with osmosis.
Its what i would be doing anyway.
Sounds like transplanting is what they really need to me.

Two days doesn't sound like a lot of time for the soil to dry either tbh.
Pot being too small would explain drying in two days.
But in all honesty it sounds like you're not letting them dry enough between waterings either.

I scanned over both threads, and I don’t see much discussion about other environmental factors, I think you are missing something in your assessment process.

What is airflow like? Fans too close in low humidity and or high heat can cause some of the crispy brown bits, What size and type of containers are they in? You could have root problems, which can manifest in every way imaginable. It seemed like folks were concerned about how much cal mag you were using, I didn’t check the dosages, but it could be related. Did you post whole plant pictures? Can you, please?

You may have some sort of post-burn lockout of N and K or P like @AmericanGrower508 said.

In that case:
If they aren’t already drowning wet then flush using at least 2:1 gallons of water compared to pot size, then let them dry and resume feeding normally. What is your tap water like, pH and ppms? Test it and look up your municipal water data. Chances are it will be fine for plants in soil. Do you have a lawn? Trees? Then you can probably use the tap.

I have an RO machine but I only use it for drinking and breeding soft water aquarium fish. My tap has enough trace nutrients I don’t use Ca/Mg supplements except (rarely) in coco coir.

Repot, flush, resume. That’s my advice. The mystery of how you got here is interesting but you need actionable steps, and those are my intuitive recommendations for you.

I hope they recover and you have the harvest of a lifetime.

I just read a but more of the original thread, I think I may have an answer.

Add 5ml of your cal mag supplement to a gallon of RO and check the pH.
I bet it is crazy fucking low, like 3.8-4.2

RO has no buffer, any pH change will make it swing dramatically.

I am 98.2% certain you have pH related lockout of N, possibly P and some related burning. See my previous post.

Just use the dang tap.

Yea I was going to amend with some fine Dolomite lime. I think thats a better well rounded approach too, putting more in the soil and less in the water. They are for sure dry I check with a meter, I am pretty used to watering at this point its not my first time growing... I have been at its a few years now. I know how to tell when a plant is under or over watered and how to tell when my soil is going dry. If anything I say I let them dry to much as they are in 1 gallons and have dried up as fast as day. I know its time to pot up & am doing it today or tomorrow. I just think going back to my first post https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-help-with-plants-please.964774/ this was a deficiency from the start. When you say a little cal mag do you think 100-200ppm is to much? what do you think is the best range with soil. I know this soil has lime and oyster shell in it so there must be some.. how much who knows?? just trying to find a safe combo, just makes me want to start mixing my own soil! Also if I lime or amend my soil do I need to let it cook? I have heard different thoughts on this. Thanks

Michael Huntherz said:

OMG...

Add 5ml of your cal mag supplement to a gallon of RO and check the pH.
I bet it is crazy fucking low, like 3.8-4.2

RO has no buffer, any pH chnage will make it swing dramatically.

I am 98.2% certain you have pH related lockout of N, possibly K and some related burning. See my previous post.

Just use the dang tap.

Click to expand...

I have been PH checking the water if you read my post. Also you should not drink RO water. It's devoid of nutrients thats the point. Some people have very poor water quality and have to use RO water. Its all a great base water to use anyways. How do you truly understand what your giving your plant unless you take it away. Thanks.

gardensofgreen420! said:

I have been PH checking the water if you read my post. Also you should not drink RO water. It's devoid of nutrients thats the point. Some people have very poor water quality and have to use RO water. Its all a great base water to use anyways. How do you truly understand what your giving your plant unless you take it away. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Okay then, if you already know everything, why ask for help? You are an askhole.
Also, bullshit.

I am going to ignore you now, I suggest that you do the same for me.

gardensofgreen420! said:

I have been PH checking the water if you read my post. Also you should not drink RO water. It's devoid of nutrients thats the point. Some people have very poor water quality and have to use RO water. Its all a great base water to use anyways. How do you truly understand what your giving your plant unless you take it away. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Also I don't think PH checking your water with soil matters that much if your using organic nutrients, never checked for years until now having issues. I also know there are opposing thoughts on this too and I am not saying i am right just what I have noticed.. yea 5ml cal mg brings it to a 5.3 a nice drop!

Michael Huntherz said:

Okay then, if you already know everything, why ask for help? Askhole.
Also, bullshit.

Click to expand...

So because I disagree your going to call me names. Speak your point if you have one, why just say bullshit. I'm open minded clearly you are not.

gardensofgreen420! said:

Yea I was going to amend with some fine Dolomite lime. I think thats a better well rounded approach too, putting more in the soil and less in the water. They are for sure dry I check with a meter, I am pretty used to watering at this point its not my first time growing... I have been at its a few years now. I know how to tell when a plant is under or over watered and how to tell when my soil is going dry. If anything I say I let them dry to much as they are in 1 gallons and have dried up as fast as day. I know its time to pot up & am doing it today or tomorrow. I just think going back to my first post https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-help-with-plants-please.964774/ this was a deficiency from the start. When you say a little cal mag do you think 100-200ppm is to much? what do you think is the best range with soil. I know this soil has lime and oyster shell in it so there must be some.. how much who knows?? just trying to find a safe combo, just makes me want to start mixing my own soil! Also if I lime or amend my soil do I need to let it cook? I have heard different thoughts on this. Thanks

Click to expand...

I'm not 1 for measurement as I don't measure anything, just pour a lil of whatever the plant tells me she needs.
No you don't have to cook soil with the added lime. I would buy a bag of pulverized and dust topsoil then water. Can't hurt and its cheap.
It's pretty hard to overfeed Cal/Mag so don't worry to much about ppm. I would concentrate on that PH. you said slurry was 6.3 which should be great but I'm curious what your run off is because I don't think the soil mid to lower in the pots is 6.3. I'm guessing runoff will be 5's
Could also be salt build up in bottom of pots throwing ph off

AmericanGrower508 said:

I'm not 1 for measurement as I don't measure anything, just pour a lil of whatever the plant tells me she needs.
No you don't have to cook soil with the added lime. I would buy a bag of pulverized and dust topsoil then water. Can't hurt and its cheap.
It's pretty hard to overfeed Cal/Mag so don't worry to much about ppm. I would concentrate on that PH. you said slurry was 6.3 which should be great but I'm curious what your run off is because I don't think the soil mid to lower in the pots is 6.3. I'm guessing runoff will be 5's
Could also be salt build up in bottom of pots throwing ph off

Click to expand...

I would have to check again but it was around 6.1 with the PH checked nutes. Thx

gardensofgreen420! said:

Also I don't think PH checking your water with soil matters that much if your using organic nutrients, never checked for years until now having issues. I also know there are opposing thoughts on this too and I am not saying i am right just what I have noticed.. yea 5ml cal mg brings it to a 5.3 a nice drop!

Click to expand...

Yes if using amended soil with organic ph isn't as important but you are only using foxfarm correct? So yes ph can be off. I never used a ph meter in the 30 years I have been growing. Up until this year, seems some of the new additives are crazy low ph. I used budswell (liquid guano) and it dropped my normal bloom water from 6.4 to 4.8.

oh and Mike did make a good point about airflow/RH . If RH is to high or low it can cause similar problems.

gardensofgreen420! said:

I have been PH checking the water if you read my post. Also you should not drink RO water. It's devoid of nutrients thats the point. Some people have very poor water quality and have to use RO water. Its all a great base water to use anyways. How do you truly understand what your giving your plant unless you take it away. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Tbh.
I think a transplant and i little lime is all they need. (id personally add a little Epsom salts, for the hell of it too)
Id be using gypsum myself. Because your soil ph is in range. Gypsum will keep it there.

Check ph of your new soil.
If ph is lower than about 6.5. Use some lime. If ph is 6.5 or so, just use gypsum. The calcium in the lime, and magnesium in the Epsom salts will buffer your ph. So it doesn't fall.
Then transplant.
Water them in.
Done.
Anything "synthetic" sucks ass, if you're using organic soil.
You also must have a lot of drainage, and aeration in your soil, to dry in two days.
Growing cannabis indoors, in soil. Is no different at all, to pot plants outside.

Also these -

AmericanGrower508 said:

I'm not 1 for measurement as I don't measure anything, just pour a lil of whatever the plant tells me she needs.
No you don't have to cook soil with the added lime. I would buy a bag of pulverized and dust topsoil then water. Can't hurt and its cheap.
It's pretty hard to overfeed Cal/Mag so don't worry to much about ppm. I would concentrate on that PH. you said slurry was 6.3 which should be great but I'm curious what your run off is because I don't think the soil mid to lower in the pots is 6.3. I'm guessing runoff will be 5's
Could also be salt build up in bottom of pots throwing ph off

Click to expand...

AmericanGrower508 said:

Yes if using amended soil with organic ph isn't as important but you are only using foxfarm correct? So yes ph can be off. I never used a ph meter in the 30 years I have been growing. Up until this year, seems some of the new additives are crazy low ph. I used budswell (liquid guano) and it dropped my normal bloom water from 6.4 to 4.8.

Click to expand...

Read what we are telling you!
You'll find every soil grower to come, to this thread, has told you exactly the same things.
That is my advice.