help when is it the best time in flower to clean up the bottom of plants

Nobody was getting on your style in anyway Roach but all I and the other people were saying is we don't like dealing with small buds that are not ripe and have to be left to mature. In that pic you posted with the small buds if you would've trimmed that your tops would've packed on more weight. Your a good grower like I said before but just do and experiment with one topped and left like you normally do and one topped and trained to have more tops and trim bottom same veg time and all see which one does more. You got anything new going? Peace

The best time is never, the worst time is at the end of the stretch which is where you are now. If you don't want under growth then grow shorter, wider plants. Paying for electricity to make a long bare stems seems wasteful. All of those leaves will bring in some energy for the plant and the tops will get most of what the plant makes. Taking off leaves just reduces your maximum energy potential and the higher up on the plant a leaf is the bigger a loss it is when removed. Yes you may end up with a couple ounces of popcorn that you won't want to even waste time trimming, but your colas will be fat and you will be happy. You can also harvest your tops and then drop the lights down a bit to let those smaller nugs fatten up. Either way your plants look great and you should enjoy a terrific harvest!

fivethirty said:

The best time is never, the worst time is at the end of the stretch which is where you are now. If you don't want under growth then grow shorter, wider plants. Paying for electricity to make a long bare stems seems wasteful. All of those leaves will bring in some energy for the plant and the tops will get most of what the plant makes. Taking off leaves just reduces your maximum energy potential and the higher up on the plant a leaf is the bigger a loss it is when removed. Yes you may end up with a couple ounces of popcorn that you won't want to even waste time trimming, but your colas will be fat and you will be happy. You can also harvest your tops and then drop the lights down a bit to let those smaller nugs fatten up. Either way your plants look great and you should enjoy a terrific harvest!

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If you look at the picture i singled out earlier, those bottom leaves will not receive light to do anything with. Now, if it wasn't being "slammed" in with other plants, as he statted it is, the need to lollypop would not be AS necessary. There are sooooo many factors at play. But, for someone to say lollypopping is good or bad, as a blanket statement, is downright stubborn.

The popcorn buds that I don't smoke get tossed into a container to use later to make butter. There's an official looking study floating around here that says these buds are higher in THC than the top buds. Personally, I get just as stoned on popcorn buds as I do from the big colas.

Oh....and I never felt anyone was knocking how I grew....we all grow differently.

I do my lollipopping week before flower as to give the plant time to come down from the stress as once it goes 12/12 your introducing an environment stress to make it flower so alot of cutting and trimming can hurt yeild ,speed and possible hermie. Some do trim the first week into 12/12. After first week or 2 do little trimming at all just leaf here or there

I've lollipoped many times...
Then I didn't.....
Now I don't.....

I didnt start out doing it but after huge gains in total yield I almost always do along with FIM techs. Helped me double my total yields and makes air flow so much better for me.

Aeroknow said:

If you look at the picture i singled out earlier, those bottom leaves will not receive light to do anything with. Now, if it wasn't being "slammed" in with other plants, as he statted it is, the need to lollypop would not be AS necessary. There are sooooo many factors at play. But, for someone to say lollypopping is good or bad, as a blanket statement, is downright stubborn.

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I lollipoped for about 4 years because that's what I was taught. Turns out the guy who taught me has no formal education about plants and relies solely on anecdotes from other growers and employees at hydro shops. I didn't have good luck with what I learned but I gave it a good try, my harvest were just always poor. Then I started reading articles published by university professors and listening to professional gardeners who's advice comes from science. I don't defoliate anymore. You can cut off your leaves if you want, but you should know that the plant will let them fall off when they stop processing CO2 which means they are no longer receiving enough light to be of any benefit.

fivethirty said:

I lollipoped for about 4 years because that's what I was taught. Turns out the guy who taught me has no formal education about plants and relies solely on anecdotes from other growers and employees at hydro shops. I didn't have good luck with what I learned but I gave it a good try, my harvest were just always poor. Then I started reading articles published by university professors and listening to professional gardeners who's advice comes from science. I don't defoliate anymore. You can cut off your leaves if you want, but you should know that the plant will let them fall off when they stop processing CO2 which means they are no longer receiving enough light to be of any benefit.

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Ok, #1, how much is that leaf going to assimilate co2, far away from any light, and practically in the dark? This ain't the outdoors man. Light from hid's is not at all intense, 5' from the bulb. #2, lollypopping is not the same as defoliating, mmmmmm'kay
So check it: I've been growing indoors for 20+ years. Some of my good friends and family, longer. We did not talk about growing weed in hydro shops(weren't to many around either). No internet forums to discuss growing weed. Well, if i remember correctly newsgroups just came online, so, sort of had online? Anyways, the only way to figure shit out, was mainly on your own. Trial and error. Controlled experiments.
I started growing indoors in home-made aeroflo tubes, yes, before aeroflo existed. No need to lollypop much, because the plants would only end up roughly 24"-30". Then i got into growing bigger plants, and after a bunch of controlled experiments, oh you better believe it,
I still lollypop, if the situation calls for it.

Aeroknow said:

Ok, #1, how much is that leaf going to assimilate co2, far away from any light, and practically in the dark? This ain't the outdoors man. Light from hid's is not at all intense, 5' from the bulb. #2, lollypopping is not the same as defoliating, mmmmmm'kay
So check it: I've been growing indoors for 20+ years. Some of my good friends and family, longer. We did not talk about growing weed in hydro shops(weren't to many around either). No internet forums to discuss growing weed. Well, if i remember correctly newsgroups just came online, so, sort of had online? Anyways, the only way to figure shit out, was mainly on your own. Trial and error. Controlled experiments.
I started growing indoors in home-made aeroflo tubes, yes, before aeroflo existed. No need to lollypop much, because the plants would only end up roughly 24"-30". Then i got into growing bigger plants, and after a bunch of controlled experiments, oh you better believe it,
I still lollypop, if the situation calls for it.

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Very interesting posts, and the nice thing is....no-one (yet) is name-calling!

While I don't lollipop I do understand why someone would want to as the immature (popcorn) buds offer no bag-appeal or much gain in yield. I really don't have any strong feelings one way or another on this topic, and there are times I wished I did lollipop just to make watering easier as I drown these lower branches on a daily basis.

Bag-appeal and watering aside, the whole idea that the plant knows which leaves and branches it needs and doesn't need is a sound one. Yes, I yank yellow or dead leaves from the bottom of my plants because the plant is telling me that it no longer needs them. I certainly wouldn't want someone else determining which fingers I need or didn't need.

Yesterday I was watching a couple of videos I made during my first few grows where I lollipopped and later defoliated and looking back I can see why I got small yields. I thought I knew what the plant needed......and I was wrong.

Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop *POP*

Aeroknow said:

Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop Lollipop
Oh Lolli Lolli Lolli
Lollipop *POP*

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should I lolipop I like to cut all lower branches ,,is it true they are taking energy away from the top colas ,,

Ok, #1, how much is that leaf going to assimilate co2, far away from any light, and practically in the dark? This ain't the outdoors man. Light from hid's is not at all intense, 5' from the bulb.

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Its going to do something, but then if you are not of the mind set that every bit contributed adds to the whole then it doesn't matter.

#2, lollypopping is not the same as defoliating, mmmmmm'kay

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Okay lets meet in the middle with "stripping off the under growth" which is what I was taught and how it was described.



I'm not trying to change your mind Aero, and you aren't going to reverse my experiences either. We both came here to help the OP with his grow. I looked at his plants, they aren't tall with dense foliage, not really a good candidate for stripping off the lower growth in my opinion.

To each their own brother One way for the OP to figure out if lollipopping is for him/his style growing, is to experiment. Because i'm fairly sure, this will continue to be argued amongst growers forever. Fair?
Peace

Aeroknow said:

To each their own brother One way for the OP to figure out if lollipopping is for him/his style growing, is to experiment. Because i'm fairly sure, this will continue to be argued amongst growers forever. Fair?
Peace

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Exactly what I was thinking
Peace

fivethirty said:

Exactly what I was thinking
Peace

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Cool, i just can't get that song outta my head. It's been two days now. I'm not kidding.

hey guys day 8 of flower and had a lot of under neath branches and twigs i wantd to get rid off as well as big fan leaves. Can I do so without shocking the plant I want to just take off the bottoms before the week 3 defoliation. @Aeroknow what do you think

thisisg said:

hey guys day 8 of flower and had a lot of under neath branches and twigs i wantd to get rid off as well as big fan leaves. Can I do so without shocking the plant I want to just take off the bottoms before the week 3 defoliation. @Aeroknow what do you think

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Indoors, I only remove leaves and branches beneath the canopy. Usually about the bottom 1/3. This is with a full canopy or what will end up a full canopy. I do this right at around 2.5 weeks after flip which is usually just about before the stretch is over. It’s also a great time to inspect for random balls after lollipoping.
I don’t ever, never have, defoliated up in the canopy.

In Nature, the Sun moves across the sky and plants get more lateral exposure -as opposed to indoor grows that have (in most cases) a stationary light source overhead.

I use a grow tent for my plants and the positioning of the light is limited. I trim up the lower third of larfy branches and big fan leaves because, in my experience, none of that stuff ever develops or ripens in the same way as the more prominent, upper growth. I have recently seen some threads here at RIU where people are using concentrated side-lighting and it does appear to make a difference.

A typical tent grow with an overhead light is more similar to the way plants in a jungle grow. And, if you observe the morphology of those trees in a jungle, they have most of their foliage at the treetops. That's because they don't waste energy making foliage that doesn't get exposure to the light. There's too much competition for the space. In a similar way, a tent grower can reshape plants to get the most efficient exposure to the light. Like, by lollipop-ing the plants, for example. Or, a grower can add sufficient side lighting that will bring more light to the lateral areas.

I have been kicking around the idea of placing some plants on an automated turntable and light them both from the side and overhead, so that each and every portion of the plant becomes exposed....but I haven't quite worked it all out yet.