Help with finalizing soil/coco/amendments mix - using on-hand components!

So after trying a run where I took recycled coco/perlite/hydroton mix and combined that with some FFoF/JustRite and a handful of this/that various amendments I had bought (in bulk) to make teas with, I'm thinking of trying a semi-organic run...

With that in mind, and after reading a bit, I started picking up the various amendments I saw quoted often in various threads/recipes - those you'd see at a nursery or big-box hardware store/etc... A lot of the 'meals' are not common I'm finding...

So, with limiting my recipe to what I have on hand, I'd love for some input from the organics folks on a decent mix - though it may be blasphemy here I'm fine with still using other regular old nutes so 100% organic isn't my goal (this time). In this case I'd just be using them as supplemental instead of being the primary source of nutes...

I'm not quite sure my final recycled coco mix weight so we'll talk in ratios if possible... let's say per 5 gallons of coco mix... On-hand I have grabbed the commercial brands at big box stores/nursery or bulk from Hydro store on a couple... Anything else looks like I'd have to go mail-order...

• HighP Bat Guano .5-13-.2
• Seabird Guano 12-11-2
• Garden Gypsum
• Bone Meal 2-14-0
• Blood Meal 12-0-0
• Rock Phosphate 0-3-0
• Dolomite Lime 0-0-0.1
• Crab Shell Meal 2-3-0
• Azomite
• Kelp Meal
• Ful-Humix for humic acid
• Ancient Forest
• Chicken Compost Manure ( I think I over-used this before. Is it "hotter" than other amendments? )
• Greensand (thought I understand this to be slow breakdown/release and for 'reuse' scenarios )
• Hort. Hydrated Lime (picked this up after reading to NOT use dolomite, also picked up Gypsum for same reason)

For the base mix I tried coco/soil last time and like the promise of it so this new base mix can be comprised of the following...

Recycled Coco/Perlite/Hydroton - been used a few times - always rinsed heavily between uses.
FFoF - In the past I always hear about it being 'hot' so I tone it down. In this case not so worried about seedling but would need to be cool enough for transplanting of course...
JustRite - used this to tone things down in the past.
More perlite - chunky or regular...


There are several things I'd probably change if I had other things on hand, like the various meals I've read which sounds like better options than many of the 'normal' choices (i.e. ditch the blood/bone meals)...

Feel free to share your favorite online stores/sources for those? Kelp4Less, etc? In particular I'd like to get some Neem meal into the mix for some of its properties....

Also, if I need to delay and order things I'm also interested in components that would serve dual-purpose as both soil amendment and for use in making an AACT for either veg or bloom use... Especially if they store well (i.e. sitting in a garage or barn)...

While at a different store today I was looking for mushroom compost to consider... what I found was another compost with biochar added... clains to be 0.5-0.5-0.5 - so I grabbed a bag... I'll have to do a little more homework on it but I figure I can use it for other purposes if anything else. I also was looking at the Garden-Tone/Tomatoe-Tone products since many of these are really just mixes of the other components I've mentioned/looking for - would that be a good path to getting some of the other harder to find 'meals' ?

I do like the idea of getting away from the animal-derived products though... feather/bone/blood meal... not liking what I'm reading on those so alternatives to those would be ideal... I also noticed in the pond-keeping section a barley concentrate used to keep the water clear.... wondered if that would work as tea additive?

Was hoping to start a mix cooking this weekend... Anyone able to steer me in the right direction on ratios at all?

So for a flowering mix how much N is really desirable in your mix. I don't want to end up having too much N in a flowering mix and not be able to do anything about... at least with providing nutes I could flush away mistakes. I'm assuming flushing won't really do much in a hot mix?

NewGrower2011 said:

So for a flowering mix how much N is really desirable in your mix. I don't want to end up having too much N in a flowering mix and not be able to do anything about... at least with providing nutes I could flush away mistakes. I'm assuming flushing won't really do much in a hot mix?

Click to expand...

don't ever ever worry about having too much nitrogen in the flowering phase.
it's very common for people to get that in their head.
unless you really want to get into all the little nuances and such, i'd go with a general organic meal-based boxed nutrient.
epsoma is one people like.
tomato or rose would be fine.
One thing to consider is there should be NO difference between a flowering or vegetative nutrient, that's all hydro myth man.
for me i'll never have a soil mix without neem meal, kelp meal, crab meal, biochar, insect meal, and volcanic rock.

Hey there buddy! You are definitely headed in the right direction, you have some really good inputs. I'll do my best to give you advice on your amendments and what I would do if I were in your exact position….

• HighP Bat Guano .5-13-.2 -- I do not have this exact item but i have used this type of product (high p bat guano), I would use it to kick start my soil once I've made it or to kick start a compost pile or tea. maybe a tablespoon in a gallon of tepid water mixed in well then poured onto your completed soil with a teaspoon of molasses mixed in.
• Seabird Guano 12-11-2 --Same story here. I did buy 7 lb of this a couple years ago, and still have half of it. This should tell you how often I use it…only to kickstart soils and composts with molasses. only high in NPK not much micros and has been sterilized so no microbes. CAREFUL WITH HIGH P AMENDMENTS over 8-10. If you are adding mycorrhizae it can interfere with infection.
• Garden Gypsum Out of all of your items this will do you the most good. Gypsum changed the game for me 100% it made stinky beautiful plants. Add 1/2 up per cubic foot (7 gallons)
• Bone Meal 2-14-0 Another high P amendment. Studies have been shown that soils amended with quality vermicompost and no high p amendments took up more phosphorus than soil with high P amendments and no vermicompost. If you insist on a high P I would 1/4 cup cubic foot.
• Blood Meal 12-0-0 Not necessary. Will burn. It's nasty. I don't want to be thinking about swine scabs when I poke my finger in the soil.
• Rock Phosphate 0-3-0 I love Rock phosphate personally. Use it in all my worm bins and outside beds. I use high rates cup per cubic foot. High in calcium. Makes soil feel great.
• Dolomite Lime 0-0-0.1 not necessary but can be used at tablespoon per gallon. it's calcium carbonate so is crab shell meal.
• Crab Shell Meal 2-3-0 AWESOME item cup per cubic foot
• Azomite Another great item. I would use 2-3 cups per cubic foot if no other rock dust is employed.
• Kelp Meal MUST USE> 1 cup per cubic foot.
• Ful-Humix for humid acid This item gets watered in i believe…..
• Ancient Forest
• Chicken Compost Manure ( I think I over-used this before. Is it "hotter" than other amendments? )
• Greensand (thought I understand this to be slow breakdown/release and for 'reuse' scenarios ) cup per cubic foot
• Hort. Hydrated Lime (picked this up after reading to NOT use dolomite, also picked up Gypsum for same reason)DO NOT USE#!#@$! WILL BURN ^%$@@!@#
  Gypsum/Azomite/ rock phos/greensand/ dolomite should be more than enough for your mineral mix. You don't want more than 1/2 cup dolomite in your mix and you want your mineral mix to equal 4-5 cups per cubic foot (7.5 gallons).
  
  For NPK I would use one cup kelp, one cup crab, couple table spoons of each guano, and I would get an easy Nitrogen source from plants. Go to the grocery store and find the oatmeal section. should be some organic products called "Bob's Red Mill" get some semolina flour or flax seed meal oat flour. There's a million to choose from they're all pretty quality. Add cup per cubic foot.
  
  GOOD LUCK!
  
  

Thanks for the input. Now the trick will be what to use some of those items for if I don't use them in my mix!