Hempy nutes - PPM levels showing way lower than what they should be?

SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Hey all, I'm new to Hempy, and new to Hydro in general, but I kind of have the hang of it and have grown DWC and Soil before each once.

I've got a single lady in 100% perlite with some hydroton on top. It's in a 20 gallon rubbermaid with no lid, and a drain spigot/hose.

I have a 16x16 LED 60/40 red/blue light which the plant just seems to love. I am doing SCROG and right now the LED is only about 3" from the plant's tops (a plenty).

I am on week 6 of 24/0 and some 18/6 veg and just today switched to 12/12 flower. The last pic is from a few days ago, but it's filled about 80% of the screen now and I figure over the next 2 weeks I'll try to get it to spread out to 100% coverage. The plant has looked amazing since day 1. Around day 7 or so it picked up speed as it hit the res, but the first few days were pretty slow. The initial single leaves never fell off in fact I just plucked one off the other day as it was stuck against some hydroton. It is a nice green color but not super dark. I topped it around the 5th node and now I have over a dozen 'top' sites growing up which I keep tucking (will stop in about 2 wks). I have done minimal lower leaf pruning, as I am good about ensuring everything gets ample light and grows up high enough.

I never got any nute burn spots, but I do wonder if I could have more nutrients, esp. now that I'm going into flower and am eager to get some phat buds... The plant looks awesome and always has, so I'm afraid to change my feeding schedule... BUT, I keep reading the GH feed schedule and it clearly says "600-800" ppm during flower.. but my mixture ends up being closer to 270-300..

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH_FloraDuo-Simple.pdf

I'm using the Simple Drain-To-Waste feed schedule. I'm putting 1/2 TSP of A plus 1.5 TSP of B in a 2L container and mixing with fresh tap water. This equates to the 1/3 TSP ratio they suggest for a full gallon of water.

I used a PPM meter I bought off Amazon and it tells me like 270-300 each time I try. My tap water itself I think was 170.

When I first began I was on the 1/1 then 1/2 then 2/2 schedule and now am on the 1/3 for flower, and the PPMs have never read above like 320. The PPM coming out is also usually around 250 or so.

I don't PH my water, never have. I do let it sit ~12 hours, exposed to air, and tap all the bubbles off the sides before using it (assuming this is Chlorine escaping as a gas??).

Temps are a little high (85ish) but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Humidity is likely really low (waiting on a new digital hygrometer) but I suppose that's good now that I'm going into flower. This is a stealth grow in a box approx 2' x 3' x 3'.

I am putting about 16oz of water in twice a day, so each 2L lasts me 48 hours. It ends of running off about 6-8oz kind of on the lower side now, so I think that means it's just drinking more and more as it grows. I will start putting in like 12oz and letting it runoff from there, to make sure I replenish enough of the water. I occasionally mist around the stalk and lower branches, but do not foliar feed and have no desire to. The spray bottle is there for some clones I'm experimenting with for my first time.

So what do you guys think? Should I like double/triple the nutes and get up closer to 600-800?????

Or should I just keep on keepin' on and not try to "fix it if it ain't broken!" :weed:
 

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SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Thanks, @mattisreal420 I have been piecing it together and evolving it for the past year or so.

Pro tip for everyone - magnets. If your box is metal (mine's a metal 2-door garage cabinet, the kind on wheels) and so I use magnetic strips/bars (ideally the kind which you use to hold tools in the garage) and other rare earth (strong) magnets to hold my light rigs up to the ceiling, and also to hold other things in place - light curtains, wires, whatever you want. Also, if you wrap the magnet and a wire together in duct tape, it will stick and hold the wire right where you want it. Then you can maneuver it however you want to get it just right. :)

Anyways, back on topic...

So, 500-700ppm would be at least 2x the nutes I'm putting in now.. I guess I could try it.. With Hempy, it doesn't completely drain, so when I add a mix of 500ppm it will still be diluted with what's already in the res, so will probably be like 350 and then 450 then 550 as I keep adding more, or whatever. I feel the best measurement will be from the runoff, so I will keep adding heavily-nuted water until I see around 600ppm runoff..

Before I do this, I'd like to get some more opinions - esp. from someone who has used the Flora Duo before. One thing I'm thinking is even with their 'simple' feed schedule (moreso with their advanced) they have add-ins like calimagic and floralicious, so perhaps they are relying on those to take it up to their printed 600-800ppm level. Does that make sense? I don't have those... I was thinking about getting floralicious, esp. if it can make it smell or produce flavored smoke when it's all said and done, but I kind of doubt that, and am trying to KISS for now until I'm better at this.. so I would just add more A and B probably keeping the 1/3 ratio until it got up to that higher ppm level..

Any other comments/thoughts?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
i'm using flora duo in hempys too. so far so good. i'm in week 3 of flower and only running it at 1/3 strength. no deficiencies yet.
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
Just up it slowly mate. Start at 0.8 - 1.0ec and work from there. I'm on floraduo and I can't get mine past 1.1ec (550ppm on my meter).

I think it's highly dependant on strain as to how much they can take in. Although, I had 4 different strains going and they all responded the same to my feeds. Mine are a bit bigger than yours under a small 250w mh/hps. Size and light strength I've heard can also affect how much they can take. Which sort of sounds like common sense to me.

+1 on the awesome little setup. Nice work!
 
SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Thanks @outlier and @rkymtnman - so are you mixing more nutes in than the recommended amount on the side of the bottle (or PDF linked above)? You must be, if you are able to get closer to 500+ ppm, right?
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
Oh another thing, don't worry about hempy too much. I have found that less fuss is definitely better. Feed at 5.8 ph and forget it until next water... lol

My first hempy really kicked in when I figured out the nute schedule and just left the temperamental woman alone. She was only temperamental though because I was overdoing it. Deal with problems as they arise for sure. Other than that, find the ec limits and leave that damn woman alone haha :bigjoint:
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
I was using calmag at full dose because of calcium and magnesium deficiencies so I could only ever feed 1/2 strength nutes on this simple DTW schedule (PDF: https://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/GH FloraDuo_28667.pdf).

I have since read this: http://www.canna-uk.com/problem_solving_coco which says not to use calmag. Use your nutes instead. My water is soft rainwater so I can near full dose them if I don't put calmag in there. Seems logical since my nutes already have what calmag has. I only just started this so I do not know if I've done the right thing yet.

Only time will tell :bigjoint:
 
SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Makes sense @outlier but when you say 'full dose' is that per the bottle/feed schedule, and if so, is your ppm higher, like 500-700, or is it lower like mine? I'm confident mine will bloom and finish fine, but I want to get the most out of it, ya know.. :D
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
I also found measuring the nutes by ec was a better method. Use the stages as a guide as to how much of what you need, but use your ppm meter to determine the actual amounts you use. They have that aggressive feed which I can get nowhere near but it seems to allow me to max out my ingoing ppm's. Which is 550 every feed on the dot. Any more and I burn them.

As to the feeding schedule yeah whatever it says on the bottle is not what I use. I realised that is completely different. I got the nutes locally and that pdf I posted above was what the dude told me to use and ignore the bottle. It's in caps per gal or some shit on the bottle I think. I like my ml's per gal so I can convert it to litres :bigjoint:
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
Yea like I said above I used that simple DTW feed schedule in the pdf I linked. With calmag I could only ever get 1/2 the recommended dose for growth phase. Now that I've ditched it I can almost get the full amount on transition phase week 4 @ 5ml per gal of A and B. I think it worked out to be 4.8ml of each.

My base water is like 24-28ppm. So without calmag I can add a fair bit of duo to get it up to 550. Hoping I'll be able to reach aggressive bloom levels if canna is right and I can ditch the calmag altogether :bigjoint:
 
SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Yeah that PDF you linked ends up being the same amounts, just in mL. I have gone through several versions of the same PDF from GH, that look completely different but end up being the same. I mean, unless you switch and look at the Recirculating or Expert formulas, which I'm not.

https://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/GH FloraDuo_28667.pdf
http://www.hydroponics.eu/db_img/img/CHART-FLORADUO-HYDRO.jpg
http://www.thebigtomato.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/GH-FloraDuo-DTW-Charts.pdf
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH_FloraDuo-Simple.pdf

Or maybe my cheapie ppm meter needs major calibration?

The water color after mixed is very faint yellow.

I will just double my nutes tonight and see what happens... what's the worst that could go wrong.... :fire:
 
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outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
Yeah the problem I found with going up too hard was that you don't know where to backoff to if you start burning. You don't want to stress them out further from flushing. I'd start at 500ppm (1ec) and go up from there. If too high backoff to 400 or if they look good try 600.
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
When you up the nutes pay attention to the tips of leaves at the top of the plant. You'll know when you've burned them when they start to yellow like heat burn. I caught mine like 6-8hrs after the feed. If you catch it early, you can stop it pretty quick I've found. Generous water of 550ppm fixes me right up, no need to flush and start over. I think you just have to find the boundaries of your girls. Pump that shit into them until they scream no more I say lol :bigjoint:
 
SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've read, push them till they begin to burn, then back them off. I guess I'll push them a little, not sure how far just yet, but not too much initially.. Thanks again all.. I'll try to post periodic pics as this girl matures.. Here's one from today (lights off this time). Day 45 total, Day 3 on 12/12... That one fan leaf on the lower-left (biggest remaining) was scarred very early on when I was watering with only tap water but it wasn't set out long enough and still had active Chlorine in it, which was burning the top of my plant until I realized and started watering next to the plant and not right on it :D Like I said earlier, now I leave my water to sit out exposed to the UV for 12-48 hours as I use it, so the Chlorine levels should be pretty low to nil by the time the water goes in.

Whadda'ya think, should I defoliate further?? :o TONS of smaller fan leaves around every top (I've counted well over a dozen tops at present). Lots of mini pistils showing everywhere too..
 

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WattSaver

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
SmokeDoggy said:
Hey all, I'm new to Hempy, and new to Hydro in general, but I kind of have the hang of it and have grown DWC and Soil before each once.

I've got a single lady in 100% perlite with some hydroton on top. It's in a 20 gallon rubbermaid with no lid, and a drain spigot/hose.

I have a 16x16 LED 60/40 red/blue light which the plant just seems to love. I am doing SCROG and right now the LED is only about 3" from the plant's tops (a plenty).

I am on week 6 of 24/0 and some 18/6 veg and just today switched to 12/12 flower. The last pic is from a few days ago, but it's filled about 80% of the screen now and I figure over the next 2 weeks I'll try to get it to spread out to 100% coverage. The plant has looked amazing since day 1. Around day 7 or so it picked up speed as it hit the res, but the first few days were pretty slow. The initial single leaves never fell off in fact I just plucked one off the other day as it was stuck against some hydroton. It is a nice green color but not super dark. I topped it around the 5th node and now I have over a dozen 'top' sites growing up which I keep tucking (will stop in about 2 wks). I have done minimal lower leaf pruning, as I am good about ensuring everything gets ample light and grows up high enough.

I never got any nute burn spots, but I do wonder if I could have more nutrients, esp. now that I'm going into flower and am eager to get some phat buds... The plant looks awesome and always has, so I'm afraid to change my feeding schedule... BUT, I keep reading the GH feed schedule and it clearly says "600-800" ppm during flower.. but my mixture ends up being closer to 270-300..

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH_FloraDuo-Simple.pdf

I'm using the Simple Drain-To-Waste feed schedule. I'm putting 1/2 TSP of A plus 1.5 TSP of B in a 2L container and mixing with fresh tap water. This equates to the 1/3 TSP ratio they suggest for a full gallon of water.

I used a PPM meter I bought off Amazon and it tells me like 270-300 each time I try. My tap water itself I think was 170.

When I first began I was on the 1/1 then 1/2 then 2/2 schedule and now am on the 1/3 for flower, and the PPMs have never read above like 320. The PPM coming out is also usually around 250 or so.

I don't PH my water, never have. I do let it sit ~12 hours, exposed to air, and tap all the bubbles off the sides before using it (assuming this is Chlorine escaping as a gas??).

Temps are a little high (85ish) but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Humidity is likely really low (waiting on a new digital hygrometer) but I suppose that's good now that I'm going into flower. This is a stealth grow in a box approx 2' x 3' x 3'.

I am putting about 16oz of water in twice a day, so each 2L lasts me 48 hours. It ends of running off about 6-8oz kind of on the lower side now, so I think that means it's just drinking more and more as it grows. I will start putting in like 12oz and letting it runoff from there, to make sure I replenish enough of the water. I occasionally mist around the stalk and lower branches, but do not foliar feed and have no desire to. The spray bottle is there for some clones I'm experimenting with for my first time.

So what do you guys think? Should I like double/triple the nutes and get up closer to 600-800?????

Or should I just keep on keepin' on and not try to "fix it if it ain't broken!" :weed:
Click to expand...
I say don't try to fix, and I'll explain why. But lets start at the top. Before I get critical let me say your plant looks really happy and is growing quite well.

You've got a 20gal tote, for a 2'x3' footprint this is way too big. A 2gal bucket (in no way more than 5gal) is more than enough to fill this area). The rez area in this tub is very large, and you are watering twice a day and the small plant is only using a small portion of the rez between waterings. So as you continue to feed the rez will increase in nutes i.e. the ppm value in the rez is rising. Since you've already started flower I'd recommend lowering your rez level. I assume you have a hole in the side around 2" up from the bottom. If so then drill another hole leaving about 1/2" to the bottom. Now you can start to play with your feeding regimen. Small plant in a large rez can cause some unforeseen consequences.

Best of luck with your grow
 
SmokeDoggy

SmokeDoggy

Well-Known Member
Hey @WattSaver thanks for reading and for the reply. I agree the 'pot' (tub) is wayyy too big. I originally was gonna do DWC again but switched to Hempy and just didn't want to reconfigure things too much - I already had the screen setup figured out for this tub too. I agree I am probably wasting water and also there could be lots of water not being properly replenished. I have done 1 flush but may do another in a week or two. I occasionally tip one end up to get more to drain out, but I think it'll be fine to finish like this. When you say you think the nute level is rising - why do you say that? I doubt these nutes settle, so runoff should be including unused nutes. I haven't seen any spikes yet in my ppms coming out..

I do think I will keep it chill on the nutes for now, since like you said, it's looking good already, no sense in trying to ruin it. :D Next time I will use the smaller ~4L pots or something, probably.
 
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WattSaver

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
SmokeDoggy said:
Hey @WattSaver thanks for reading and for the reply. I agree the 'pot' (tub) is wayyy too big. I originally was gonna do DWC again but switched to Hempy and just didn't want to reconfigure things too much - I already had the screen setup figured out for this tub too. I agree I am probably wasting water and also there could be lots of water not being properly replenished. I have done 1 flush but may do another in a week or two. I occasionally tip one end up to get more to drain out, but I think it'll be fine to finish like this. When you say you think the nute level is rising - why do you say that? I doubt these nutes settle, so runoff should be including unused nutes. I haven't seen any spikes yet in my ppms coming out..

I do think I will keep it chill on the nutes for now, since like you said, it's looking good already, no sense in trying to ruin it. :D Next time I will use the smaller ~4L pots or something, probably.
Click to expand...
Right now with what you're doing by tipping and draining a little, and just the general agitation will keep the rez mixed, and since your screen is mounted to the tub you could be okay. If your tub was to just sit still the rez will stratify with the denser at the bottom which is the higher tds / ppm solution and it just keeps going up. But you can easily avoid this with some regular tub motion.

I also checked out your light, and I don't know how to put this gently, but I don't think it will be able to produce more than a few gms of wispy bud. I did the math and each diode is only 0.2w. You could set this light right on the leaf and it won't harm it. I hate to say it but it's pretty much a toy.

May I make a recommendation, for your space and what you're trying to do, I'd get a Brooding lamp (it looks just like a clamp shop light) except it has a ceramic socket and is rated for a 250W heat lamp, and get an 85w cfl. Still not adding a bunch of heat but improving your current light by more that 10 fold.
Here's a couple of links but I'm sure you can get better pricing with a little search work.

Lamp

Bulb
 
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