Here talk about this

Thanks wbwidow i cant wait to try some of this fire

medical fx said:

Why do you name the s1's the same name as the "clone only"?

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wyteberrywidow said:

Shouldn't they be since they are almost the same just from seed?

Doesnt every breeder name the s1 the same as clones?

Am I missing something?

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Well, I'll use a hypothetical situation to explain how I see it. I could be wrong, but this is how I view it:

Lets say a run of 100 seeds is sowed & eventually flowered out to find 1 special pheno.

Of all the 100 seeds, the 1 special clone is the ONLY one that has the characteristics it has (clone ease, bloom time, yield, smell, thc%, etc).

Say that pheno then is named a strain name, say "Blue Dandy Candy" for example.

The B.D.C. clone then is passed around & the buds are popular and in high demand.

At that point in our example, Blue Dandy Candy is a "clone-only strain" being passed around. If you s1 that clone, it's not guaranteed to be EXACTLY as the original with every seed. Some of the seedlings may have long bloom time, poor yield, disease/pest resistance, etc etc. There might also be some s1's that come out even better than the original mom. However, with an s1 you're getting something SIMILAR to the clone-only - but NOT 100% exactly the same thing.

So say someone s1's a BCD clone and starts selling packs of it, but doesn't rename it anything different. What do you think people that buy those seeds will be passing off as medicine/clones: Blue Dandy Candy. So, say a grower ends up with one of these s1 BCD clones, and finds out it's 10 days slower to bloom & yields less amount & lower quality buds than REAL DEAL BCD.


When people pick up a Blue Dandy Candy clone, they expect to grow what BDC is known for. They don't expect to end up with some random pheno some guy chose as the best of his 10-pack of beans.

medical fx said:

medical fx said:

Why do you name the s1's the same name as the "clone only"?

Click to expand...

wyteberrywidow said:

Shouldn't they be since they are almost the same just from seed?

Doesnt every breeder name the s1 the same as clones?

Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

Well, I'll use a hypothetical situation to explain how I see it. I could be wrong, but this is how I view it:

Lets say a run of 100 seeds is sowed & eventually flowered out to find 1 special pheno.

Of all the 100 seeds, the 1 special clone is the ONLY one that has the characteristics it has (clone ease, bloom time, yield, smell, thc%, etc).

Say that pheno then is named a strain name, say "Blue Dandy Candy" for example.

The B.D.C. clone then is passed around & the buds are popular and in high demand.

At that point in our example, Blue Dandy Candy is a "clone-only strain" being passed around. If you s1 that clone, it's not guaranteed to be EXACTLY as the original with every seed. Some of the seedlings may have long bloom time, poor yield, disease/pest resistance, etc etc. There might also be some s1's that come out even better than the original mom. However, with an s1 you're getting something SIMILAR to the clone-only - but NOT 100% exactly the same thing.

So say someone s1's a BCD clone and starts selling packs of it, but doesn't rename it anything different. What do you think people that buy those seeds will be passing off as medicine/clones: Blue Dandy Candy. So, say a grower ends up with one of these s1 BCD clones, and finds out it's 10 days slower to bloom & yields less amount & lower quality buds than REAL DEAL BCD.


When people pick up a Blue Dandy Candy clone, they expect to grow what BDC is known for. They don't expect to end up with some random pheno some guy chose as the best of his 10-pack of beans.

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^^ Best post of 2012. ^^

I disagree.

If I buy a pack, I will know it was S1'd and will not be exact clones of the parent. That is like growing 101.
So my choice would be, go to California and get a clone (which isnt going to happen) or order some s1 seeds and try to find the pheno.
Not everyone lives in Cali and has access to clones.

i use the name of the clone i make the seeds form . you dont like it come up with your won company to make your own crosses but if your not lucky and spoiled and in cali or co you cant just get the clones and do a run... so you need seeds... I take the original clone not the name of a rename of what someone told me. i go to the actual source of the cut. my sfv og makes sfv og kush nugs my tahoe make tahoe kush nugs my original sour diesel is sour diesel my chems are just that chem my bubba is just that bubba. so i guess if i were to half ass it like ol riot and use fake asss clones then yes id be worried but i use the originals and put them to seed for everyone else to grow... hence why og is everywhere cause the last 4 years we have put 100000's of og seeds out there.. you have an issue with the names get the originals and dont loose them so you dont need the seeds. pretty simple really

I understand medical fx's post above, about the possible variation of a "clone-only" strain with different pheno's of seeds. It makes sense, but I'm with Swerve on the naming issue. I am not in a medical state and when I order seeds it is awesome to know that I am getting elite strains from the source, without the geographical limits of clones.

I can understand wanting to know that you are getting the correct strain when you walk into a clinic, but I would say that different growers effect the outcome, with all of the variables that go into growing and harvesting, more than the potential variations of the strain in seed form.

My main concern with seeds would be the breeding techniques to arrive at a fairly consistent result.

Swerve said:

i use the name of the clone i make the seeds form . you dont like it come up with your won company to make your own crosses but if your not lucky and spoiled and in cali or co you cant just get the clones and do a run... so you need seeds... I take the original clone not the name of a rename of what someone told me. i go to the actual source of the cut. my sfv og makes sfv og kush nugs my tahoe make tahoe kush nugs my original sour diesel is sour diesel my chems are just that chem my bubba is just that bubba. so i guess if i were to half ass it like ol riot and use fake asss clones then yes id be worried but i use the originals and put them to seed for everyone else to grow... hence why og is everywhere cause the last 4 years we have put 100000's of og seeds out there.. you have an issue with the names get the originals and dont loose them so you dont need the seeds. pretty simple really

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Sorry dude, but you're fucking things up over here for us spoiled patients in Cali.

There is only one cut of Blue Dream. Fact. Real Blue Dream, that is.

Now some other seed companies are making BS crosses of "Blue Dream" (and they don't even use the correct parents often). Then growers from seed make cuts and pass those on as BD, and suddenly trying to make sure you have the real blue dream is a chore. It sucks dude.

I know that you are using the correct parentage for your seeds, but the same case is true. What used to be a very specific clone only pheno suddenly has all these different possible phenos -- some great and some terrible. Now these days, when I see a Tahoe OG clone at a dispensary I simply stay away because I know I don't know which pheno I'm getting.

I guess it kinda doesn't matter to me anyway though, since I don't see myself going outside for any new genetics any time soon.

Swerve said:

i use the name of the clone i make the seeds form . you dont like it come up with your won company to make your own crosses but if your not lucky and spoiled and in cali or co you cant just get the clones and do a run... so you need seeds... I take the original clone not the name of a rename of what someone told me. i go to the actual source of the cut. my sfv og makes sfv og kush nugs my tahoe make tahoe kush nugs my original sour diesel is sour diesel my chems are just that chem my bubba is just that bubba. so i guess if i were to half ass it like ol riot and use fake asss clones then yes id be worried but i use the originals and put them to seed for everyone else to grow... hence why og is everywhere cause the last 4 years we have put 100000's of og seeds out there.. you have an issue with the names get the originals and dont loose them so you dont need the seeds. pretty simple really

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PJ Diaz said:

Sorry dude, but you're fucking things up over here for us spoiled patients in Cali.

There is only one cut of Blue Dream. Fact. Real Blue Dream, that is.

Now some other seed companies are making BS crosses of "Blue Dream" (and they don't even use the correct parents often). Then growers from seed make cuts and pass those on as BD, and suddenly trying to make sure you have the real blue dream is a chore. It sucks dude.

I know that you are using the correct parentage for your seeds, but the same case is true. What used to be a very specific clone only pheno suddenly has all these different possible phenos -- some great and some terrible. Now these days, when I see a Tahoe OG clone at a dispensary I simply stay away because I know I don't know which pheno I'm getting.

I guess it kinda doesn't matter to me anyway though, since I don't see myself going outside for any new genetics any time soon.

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Let's look at a few strains this character is marketing:

"Larry OG": Genetics = SFV OG male x Larry OG clone-only

"Original Sour Diesel": Genetics = Sour OG male x Original Sour Diesel clone-only

"Tahoe OG": Genetics = SFV OG male x Tahoe OG clone-only


^ In those examples, he's taking 2 different genetics (only 1 of which is the ORIGINAL CLONE-ONLY), and combining them to achieve a new result. The issue some have with that, is that the name of this new genetic combination, takes the same name as something else that already exists with that name.

I agree with the above post. It's a complicated issue, and why make things more complicated. Anytime a cross is made, a new name should created as well. It's far more important to accurately document what were all doing with these wonderful plants, rather than care about some 'elite' names or cultural reference.

Rising Moon said:

I agree with the above post. It's a complicated issue, and why make things more complicated. Anytime a cross is made, a new name should created as well. It's far more important to accurately document what were all doing with these wonderful plants, rather than care about some 'elite' names or cultural reference.

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Or maybe he is lucky enough to find a good male that only passed on vigor and leaves all of the good traits of mom.

My Cali Connection Original Sour Diesel is the ONLY sour diesel I have tried that even resembles, if not matches the best clone only that used to get shipped from Cali. I popped a ten pack, got six females. One of them was the keeper that stood out above the rest. I wont take clones from people. I just wont. These seeds made it poosible for me to have my unicorn strain. Thanks Swerve.

But that's the whole point, just because it "resembles" the strain, does not make it the strain.

Fuck ya it does, the overall process is called cubing and it is exactly the process of extracting phenotypes. From what I have witnessed is that the CC crosses are dubbed and the cubes are identified, seems pretty straightforward. I have yet to see that Swerve is trying to hide genealogy, on the converse it seems like he is being straight forward in the advertizing and word of mouth here.

This is how it's done, so you have to ask yourself if your just pissed because you get off on having something that you perceived others shouldn't? Yikes California elitist outrage!
FYI, it is a pheno if it is not in seed, a "strain" is true breeding for "SELECTED" characteristics......

And again a CC thread going totally offtopic XD
The GSC strains seem to be really dank after doing some research on them and they'll probably pop out of every breeder very soon the question is who will have the best?So far if I'm not wrong cannaventure dropped some (gsc x trainwreck and animal crackers) and riot seeds is going to drop some but dunno can't contact riot seeds :/And heard mixed opinions on them so CC would make them viable for the masses and hopefully herm safe as I already read that cherry pie is kinda a hermwhore..

Fuck Riot Seeds I'm good on his shit! But CannaVenture got sum goods pooring out from them and so Does CC!! and I can careless for the Over hyped GSC or any cut of it i have 10x better stonger cuts of OG that will put it to shame! here is a few of my lot just for show
Tahoe Alien P1 Tahoe Alien P2 Alien Grenades P3 Tahoe Alien P1 Alien Kush Pheno

These are day 31 of flower Still got 29-32 days left!

tell me more about boss hog!! and wtf is pink panties???? all that seems like firre tho cant wait

I guess saying "resembles" does leave it a little vague. This shit is better than the guys who brought the "clone only" line back from Cali and are running it locally. It has vigor the older cut lacks now and it stinks far worse. I wouldn't take a cut from out West since I had this. No chance of getting the West coast killer mildew strains or the mites they all have now that drink Azomax like koolaid. There isn't a breeder out there who does everything perfect by everyone's standards but Swerve gave me the strain I love so much and it leaves people jealous. Dispensary people call me trying to cop nugs for their headstash. The guy told me he was losing sleep worried I would run out before we saw each other. Shit is like crack. It is the dope that dope dealers buy to smoke.

In my opinion if you didnt grow it yourself, you don't know what your smoking.

If i go to the dispensary and see Tahoe OG, i'm just going to assume that it's Cali Connection considering my location. But if it were just labeled as "Cali Connection Tahoe OG" then it would at least narrow down the source of the products genes.

But even still, if you didnt get the seeds yourself from a landrace strain and then do the work to outcross these genetics... you don't know what ACTUALLY went into the seed or clone your growing... and are going off what someone on the INTERNET said. And i don't say this to doubt the work of others, but it's just a chance you take when you buy seeds/clones. It might as well be bagseed shoved into little bags for all we know? or a clone from bagseed found on a bag of original clone sourced bud.

I don't mean to discredit Swerve's work, and im not. My only intent is that we all take a chance in guessing what we have is legit. And using the internet to identify specific traits in a plant isn't always the best indicator of a plants genetics either. Variables in a grow room can make someones tight pinecone nug from room A, look like a big fluffy foxtailed turd in room B.

Just my 2 cents, keep bringing it to the table Swerve! You are doing your part in bringing amazing genetics to people that may never have a shot at attaining a real 91 chem or Chem D... Sour Diesel, Bubba, SFV, Larry, and the rest of the gang. I think that is the biggest gift anyone could give.

DO the research on the strains you grow, and you won't worry about not having the real deal.