Hey New Growers, Let's try this again?

waterdawg said:

Oh and hog i have my lights setup with the T-5's on the sides (still above plants) with the 600 in the middle. So do you think I would get more thc production by running just the T5's? That I guess is my question after a long stone induced ramble.

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if used properly,,,,,,yes

You know, I understand that I came on here and made some big claims, it's up to you whether you wanna listen or not. but simple truth is it's all true. I had 2 visitors this week, I smoked a J of Thunderfuck with each of em (so a half a J 4~5 hits) and one said it was the highest he had ever gotten off a J and the other was amazed at how ripped it got him due to his tolerance oh, and both loved the legs it had last for hours, never stopped creeping (has a limitless ceiling)

Well the info is here , do what ya want with it. I prefer to hang with and teach folks that want better herb

Again it seems like your trying to defend something? I'm asking these questions because I'm curious and may try a few different things that you are suggesting!!! Again jeez lol. It may be true or it may not be, thats why I may try it. As I have said the only way to find out is to do it yourself. Is your pot more potent under t5's? Could very well be! No need to try and convince me though, unless I try it I'm never convinced lol.

hogbud said:

No not a middle spectrum, they have a blue and a red peak right where plants want it unlike HPS that is mostly green

and IME whispy buds can be genetics but most usually is a temp problem

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To hot? To cold?

waterdawg said:

To hot? To cold?

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to hot

Must be strain then. Never gets much higher than 80 when running just T5's.

Not defending anything, tryin to share positive info,,,,

here is a quote from one of the recent visitors,,,,,

Hello everyone,
I went an visited with Rid yesterday.
He introduced me to a few of the strains he has created.
The first thing we smoked was the Colorado Thunder Fuck.
We had around 1/2 a jay or less.
Rid is right!
There is no ceiling with this stuff!
It is smooth, great tasting weed!
We also smoked some Holy Diver and right before I left, I got a smooooooth bong rip of Wonderland.
All of his smoke has an earthy hash taste.
Like incense with floral undertones of coffee and spice.
What I find most impressive, is most of the buds I saw that he grows are reddish brown, loaded with well cured brown/red pistils everywhere.
I brought some green Crack and Kosher Kush.
My Green Crack looks like lime Jello compared to his reddish brown trich-laden buds.
Totally different look and taste.
He gave me a nice sample of this one he calls, "Little Bush".
It was a "one and done", since he has no seeds or clone.
I smoked this one when i got home last night.
I love this treasure and would have considered this an excellent strain!
Like I said, the four that I sampled all have a similar look, taste and bud density.
I will do a proper smoke report later this morning.

I smoked 1/2 jay of Green Crack on the way down to see Rid.
15 minutes after we smoked the CTF, I was listening to music, chilling on the couch and felt like the first "wake and bake" of the day.
Definitely a cutter that will stomp on anything else you already smoked!

My Green Crack is like a shiny sports-car.
It hauls ass, will get you there, but Rids smoke is like a slow creeping tank that will drive right over the top of that shiny car and crush it with old school steel!

an explanation on Lil Bush, it was a mutant, an experiment, I put 12 immature seeds down, they were white seeds with no tiger stripes. only 1 of em lived and I cloned it 3 times and mixed it into my breeding schedule. Due to the fact that it was genetically warped it was a finicky eater and hard to keep happy once I got a pheno with it's structure I let the plant go

it now lives on in Wonderland

Sorry! Your post sounded a bit defensive is all lol. But I'm curious, so you actually think the hps will lower the thc content when used with T5's? Or am I reading that wrong? Again just try to get my old befuddled brain around this?

waterdawg said:

Sorry! Your post sounded a bit defensive is all lol. But I'm curious, so you actually think the hps will lower the thc content when used with T5's? Or am I reading that wrong? Again just try to get my old befuddled brain around this?

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Here's the deal, I grow the same strains all the time mixed in with my new gear, as I like the smoke and do back crosses.

My old set up was 2 400 watt CMH HID's which I used for several years, when Phillips discontinued the bulbs I started looking for what next, tried a LED that kicked ass but was a lot of money, got the T5's and set up the tanning booth. Same strains I had grown for years were all the sudden more potent !!!

Likewise I used Jack's Peat Lite Special 20-10-20 for years as I grow in peat it was a great nute got great results, I switched to Jack's Citrus FeeD 20-10-20 and the only difference was the addition of sulfur and once again my buds got more potent (it was this that started my experiment to add even more sulfur)

I am telling you what I have seen with my own two eyes, I posted a quote that verifies my gear rocks, and what "you" do with that info is up to you ???

Cool thx!!!

Thread needs more bud porn, The PE reveg in week 6 of flower

note the amber

and now an independent smoke report on my Holy Diver strain,,,,,,

Ok...so Holy Diver is very good also!
I couldn't stop at one hit.
I had four.
It gave me a couple real good expansive draws.
I got a little choked up when I got over ambitious.
The Hold Diver socks you between the eyes right away.
It has that light pressure you feel building behind your forehead.
It's almost like someone is inflating your head with fairy dust.
You feel it between the eyes right away, and then it gets a little more foggy.
Not a couchlocker though.
I am on my back porch on a beautiful sunny morn, and the colors and hues are so bright and purty!
I feel like when I smoke a good haze.
I have that light fog, but everything is bright and colorful.
Kind of an oxymoron...Bright fog.
I could do some fishing and hiking on this!

I hate smoking some heavy indica doms in the morning, it's those mornings when all your day plans get revised and changed to activities which require remote controls and sitting.

I have no munchies at all. Yesterday either.
If I start growing some of Rid's strains, Ben & Jerry's stock is going to go down.
I will say that I didn't have the urge to hit a fast food joint on the way home last night.
(Nothing wrong with a bowl of Crunchberries at midnight sometimes however)

Anyhow, back to the Holy Diver.
The taste is a nice smooth hashy taste, like the other three we smoked yesterday.
I noticed a little sweet floral undertone, like an old school skunk or Afghani in there somewhere.
I noticed Rid's buds have an oily, sticky tightness to them.
They break into smaller little hard calyxes filled with more hard little rocks.
I would recommend a grinder for these types.
You can break them and break them, but they just make smaller little hard goo balls.
You can get finger hash after cleaning a bud.

The Namaste is actually the prettiest IMO.
It has nice thumb size tootsie rolls of reddish brown goodness.
I haven't touched, smelled or smoked it yet.
It just looks real nice.

From what I have seen, Rid is very close to the taste, smell, buzz of what I remember
I have always felt some of the greatest highs I have experienced were of old landrace types like Columbian gold, Panama Red, Thai Sticks.
All of these are reddish brown, sticky, earthy tastes.
great work Rid.

BUD PORN YEAH

Test kit has arrived, I will be testing strains tomorrow and report my findings

yes there will be pics

I am a 1st year noob, but the book you quote I have been reading for years.
I have read MJ Botany cover to cover many times.
Not an easy read for a layman IMHO but a very good book for its time.

It is an Old book, 1953!
(Lots of new info exists, some is not the same as Clarke wrote.)

You quote one thing but one paragraph later he states,
(Pg 142 second paragraph)

"If climatic conditions are harsh, resins and cannabinoids will begin to decompose.

As a result , resin yield may appear high even if many of the resin heads are missing or have begun to deteriorate and the overall psychoactivity of the resin has dropped.

THC decomposes to CBN In the hot sun and will not remain intact or be replaced after the metabolic processes of the plant have ceased.

Since cannabinoids are so sensitive to decomposition by sunlight, the higher psychoactivity of Amber resins may be a secondary effect.

It may be that the THC is better protected from the sun by the amber or opaque resins than by clears resins.

Some late maturing strains develop opaque , white resin heads as a result of terpene polymerization and THC decomposition.

Opaque resin heads are usually a sign that floral clusters are over-mature."

I Left off a few lines at the beginning and end of the paragraph because I don't think they apply. ( That's why I put the page number.)

Clarke states resin glands are degraded by light.

He also says opaque resin heads mean a plant is over mature, I think this last statement has been proved wrong since he wrote this botany text book in 1953.

I have been working with one strain of plants or months, I am flowering my third of the same type of Sativa.
It finishes flowering at 9 weeks. I watch the Trichomes change color from clear to cloudy to amber with an electronic microscope and a 40x loupe.
The parts of the plant closest to my light turn cloudy first, Trichomes on the underside of buds have more clear Trichomes. The number of Amber Trichomes increase over time.
The amount of light is not increased under my buds but over time the clear Trichomes turn cloudy.

I am sure MJ has changed a Ton since 1953.
With all the selective breeding by many people, I am sure that MJ created is much stronger bud in general.
Stronger bud.

hogbud said:

Some good news when it comes to understanding how THC degrades, Some researchers set a standard for forensic scientists to determine how to determine the age of an MJ sample by the CBN's

They also determined that THC degrades into 3 different things with CBN being one, they saw that the diminishing % of THC was not equal to the increase in CBN and then isolated two new acids.

They said there was no CBN's found in fresh material, that The biggest decrease occurs in the first year and then it slopes off with the average being a 7% increase in CBN each year.

mostly caused by exposure to oxygen this tells us that for any long term storage we should use cryovac

The study,,,,
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1997-01-01_1_page008.html

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exposure to oxi

Dogenzengi said:

I am a 1st year noob, but the book you quote I have been reading for years.
I have read MJ Botany cover to cover many times.
Not an easy read for a layman IMHO but a very good book for its time.

It is an Old book, 1953!
(Lots of new info exists, some is not the same as Clarke wrote.)

You quote one thing but one paragraph later he states,
(Pg 142 second paragraph)

"If climatic conditions are harsh, resins and cannabinoids will begin to decompose.

As a result , resin yield may appear high even if many of the resin heads are missing or have begun to deteriorate and the overall psychoactivity of the resin has dropped.

THC decomposes to CBN In the hot sun and will not remain intact or be replaced after the metabolic processes of the plant have ceased.

Since cannabinoids are so sensitive to decomposition by sunlight, the higher psychoactivity of Amber resins may be a secondary effect.

It may be that the THC is better protected from the sun by the amber or opaque resins than by clears resins.

Some late maturing strains develop opaque , white resin heads as a result of terpene polymerization and THC decomposition.

Opaque resin heads are usually a sign that floral clusters are over-mature."

I Left off a few lines at the beginning and end of the paragraph because I don't think they apply. ( That's why I put the page number.)

Clarke states resin glands are degraded by light.

He also says opaque resin heads mean a plant is over mature, I think this last statement has been proved wrong since he wrote this botany text book in 1953.

I have been working with one strain of plants or months, I am flowering my third of the same type of Sativa.
It finishes flowering at 9 weeks. I watch the Trichomes change color from clear to cloudy to amber with an electronic microscope and a 40x loupe.
The parts of the plant closest to my light turn cloudy first, Trichomes on the underside of buds have more clear Trichomes. The number of Amber Trichomes increase over time.
The amount of light is not increased under my buds but over time the clear Trichomes turn cloudy.

I am sure MJ has changed a Ton since 1953.
With all the selective breeding by many people, I am sure that MJ created is much stronger bud in general.
Stronger bud.


exposure to oxi

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well I'm just trying to figure out what I am actually seeing. IMO there are several contradicting reports? and none of them explain why my all amber bud is an uplifting trippy high ? I have the HD bud that has been sittin on my coffee table for a month it has been exposed to O2 and light and I will compare it to a jarred bud from the same harvest and see for myself what happens?

and thank you for contributing to the debate !!!

Your welcome hog bud,
I am not into arguing, I am out to learn.
I had that book and read it a quite a few times since 98' when I bought it.
( my daughter was born in 98, I was reading it as I fed her a bottle)
I re-read Clarkes book last year before I started growing, I have treated it as a text book.

Some things Clarke says seem to be contradictory, I think it's the nature of good science to show all info.

I have to follow a few more of your posted threads to see your whole point.
Good discussion!

hogbud said:

When you put it ALL together after reading ALL of it I think you'll see why I am looking at it

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Well there's some stuff I can agree with but I also so some cherry-picking of resources and a subjective perception. Like I said in the other topic, smoke reports aren't going to prove your point. The cannabinoid receptors in our brains are all unique.

A quote from Marijuana Botany by RCC doesn't do much for me for this particular topic. I have over a decade professional researching, fact-checking, writing and helping authors look like real experts (in industries where only facts matter and anything less will end your career), I know first hand how such books are 'created'. The reason his book is so good, is because (most of) the rest is so bad. It is good book for growers who want to know a bit more than the minimal, but by no means an authoritative resource on amber trichs.

RCC: "Many cultivators agree that transparent amber resins are a sign of high-quality drug"
Yeah and many believe removing leaves will lead to a better sink-source ratio and flushing improves tastes.

hogbud: "They also determined that THC degrades into 3 different things with CBN being one, they saw that the diminishing % of THC was not equal to the increase in CBN and then isolated two new acids."
+
hogbud: "which has discovered it is a combination of THC, CBD and the terpenes that give our plant its best medical qualities"

I would go even further and add "and recreational". It's the cocktail of the cannabinoids and terpenes that determine the effect. However, that takes nothing away from the value of THC and it being the primary cannabinoid. We know from measurement by a professor (authoritative source of info), that peak THC potency, as in peak of the most important cannabinoid (smoke very high THC isolater hash and you'll know what I mean), occurs at clear, not cloudy, definitely not amber. It makes no sense to me to prefer amber because it has supposedly unknown, untested and imaginary benefits at the cost of the main cannabinoid that we do know its effect of. THAT is, to use your own words, the mystical forum way.

Coincidentally, someone posted in my picture journal about this just days ago. I got seedlings with amber trics on them. Which obviously begs the question: wtf is in it, why did they turn amber so soon. I will try to get some tested later this year when I test some finished product.

"So in thousands of samples taken over several years there was no significant CBN found in any MJ so please tell me how the amber trics are a sign of THC degrading to CBN's ?"
Amber is not a sign of amber tric degrading the CBN, that hasn't been proven. What has been proven is that the increase in CBN occurs during the same phase as the trics turning cloudy.

As for the research you posted about no to little CBN being found:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/bud-porn-take-a-look.655923/page-7#post-9143010 Notice the table on page 74. It suggests the CBN is already gone again by the time it's 'senescent/brown'. And so is the THC it was before that. Based on a test of the actual head of a stalked trich performed by a professor who studied trichs for decades. What more proof does one need?

Remember though, from what I've been picking up, is that amber trich's can be clear as well, so, why lump all amber trich's together. Perhaps clear is clear and cloudy is cloudy no matter what the color of the trich.

Maybe it's the clear amber trich's that have that extra something...