High all. New to genetics. Simple questions :)

Hey guys,
so I have some seeds that were effectively brother and sister cause it was from the same batch that I had, but I don't know how the breeder handled them. I had to mix fem seeds with regs cause only 2 out of 5 fems germinated, and I got 3 reg freebies, so I said, well, maybe I can get a female out of one of these. And I ot two males which pollinated the plant closest to it, my one female of that strain (church x deadhead og) Question is, can I grow them to expect 50/50 male to female, average? I know there wasn't a hermie involved, cause two other plants close by had barely any seeds, compared to the one that was next to the males I culled. Big difference. So I know they just pollinated naturally, not a herm.

What is it called when seeds make seeds with each other? If the first set was a strong yielder, I can expect the their off spring to be as good, correct?

I ask this cause I want to start a perpetual grow from seed. I want to make the most out of a mistake I made in my prior grow (using the seeds that normally cost 5-7 a pop)

Thanks!

gjs4786 said:

What is it called when seeds make seeds with each other? If the first set was a strong yielder, I can expect the their off spring to be as good, correct?

Click to expand...

A cross between two different strains is a called an F1 hybrid, it will most likely have qualities of both plants. Crossing F1 hybrids is what most seed companies carry today.

A cross between two of the same strains is called a back cross, or BC. A BC can be used to isolate desired qualities from and isolated phenotype. You can only do this so long before the negative qualities of the strain emerge.

An F2 hybrid is when you take an F1 hybrid and cross it again with on of two original strains. This is used to "fix" problems with Back crossed genetics.

This is how i have come to understand cannabis breeding.

Dmannn said:

A cross between two different strains is a called an F1 hybrid, it will most likely have qualities of both plants. Crossing F1 hybrids is what most seed companies carry today.

A cross between two of the same strains is called a back cross, or BC. A BC can be used to isolate desired qualities from and isolated phenotype. You can only do this so long before the negative qualities of the strain emerge.

An F2 hybrid is when you take an F1 hybrid and cross it again with on of two original strains. This is used to "fix" problems with Back crossed genetics.

This is how i have come to understand cannabis breeding.

Click to expand...

Some of this is incorrect.

When you cross two unrelated strains, it’s called an F1. That’s correct.

Crossing two F1 siblings to each other will produce F2s. F2s are important for breeding purposes because it’s the earliest generation that you can get complete recombination of the parental genotypes. In general, true F2 plants will show significantly more variation than in the F1 generation.

F2 x F2 = F3
F3 x F3 = F4 etc

If you cross an F1 back to one of the original parents, that is a backcross.

jayblaze710 said:

Some of this is incorrect.

When you cross two unrelated strains, it’s called an F1. That’s correct.

Crossing two F1 siblings to each other will produce F2s. F2s are important for breeding purposes because it’s the earliest generation that you can get complete recombination of the parental genotypes. In general, true F2 plants will show significantly more variation than in the F1 generation.

F2 x F2 = F3
F3 x F3 = F4 etc

If you cross an F1 back to one of the original parents, that is a backcross.

Click to expand...

^^ Thats right nothing to say more.

You made f2 and selecting starts from there. You are looking for a female now that shows a lot of your desired traits.
Thats not verry hard.
Edit
Clone and keep her.

The harder part will be the male.
Cull the early ones and try to keep a squat bushy late male. The primo male for the gig would even show thc production early.
From here backcrossing starts to create a stable line after many generations.

Peace and happy breeding!

Gbuddy said:

^^ Thats right nothing to say more.

You made f2 and selecting starts from there. You are looking for a female now that shows a lot of your desired traits.
Thats not verry hard.
Edit
Clone and keep her.

The harder part will be the male.
Cull the early ones and try to keep a squat bushy late male. The primo male for the gig would even show thc production early.
From here backcrossing starts to create a stable line after many generations.

Peace and happy breeding!

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the information, guys!

My plans are to germinate all the seed that I got from the F2 I think it is that I created? I'm going to grow them all out (well not all of them lol) SOG style.

So when we buy hybrids online should we assume we are getting F1 genetics?

I won't be flowering long, maybe 3 weeks, 4 at the most. I'm starting with 40 plants, expect to cut down to 20 in a 5x5, so it's not a real SOG, but a semi SOG. I'm not flowering rooted clones or anything. These plants will have some size to them.

I guess I will take the best female and clone her for the next round (perpetual)

gjs4786 said:

So when we buy hybrids online should we assume we are getting F1 genetics?

Click to expand...

No its not that easy.

In plantbreeding like stated in another post above a classic F1 hybrid would be a cross of two unrelated Strains.
Example:
100% indica Afghan ibl x equatorial 100% Sativa ibl

The Result is a F1 that will show good hybrid vigor in this F1 (Fillial Generation).
Because you used two absolutly different and truebreeding lines.

We also speak about hybrids if its a cross of already hybridized parents.
Example:
(Afghan x skunk x Thai) x (columbian x lebanese x swiss)
That would be a Multihybrid.

Most breeder call the cross of two multis, F1 also.
Dunno if that is the correct term but that is how its done.
And its confusing.

So its always wise to check the genetical background ( parents)
to judge what kind of hybrid they talk about.

Gbuddy said:

No its not that easy.

In plantbreeding like stated in another post above a classic F1 hybrid would be a cross of two unrelated Strains.
Example:
100% indica Afghan ibl x equatorial 100% Sativa ibl

The Result is a F1 that will show good hybrid vigor in this F1 (Fillial Generation).
Because you used two absolutly different and truebreeding lines.

We also speak about hybrids if its a cross of already hybridized parents.
Example:
(Afghan x skunk x Thai) x (columbian x lebanese x swiss)
That would be a Multihybrid.

Most breeder call the cross of two multis, F1 also.
Dunno if that is the correct term but that is how its done.
And its confusing.

So its always wise to check the genetical background ( parents)
to judge what kind of hybrid they talk about.

Click to expand...

In traditional genetics, F1 refers to the crossing of two disparate and distinct populations.

But in cannabis breeding, people just call any cross of two different strains an F1. Even though often the two parents share a lot of their genetics with each other.

jayblaze710 said:

In traditional genetics, F1 refers to the crossing of two disparate and distinct populations.

But in cannabis breeding, people just call any cross of two different strains an F1. Even though often the two parents share a lot of their genetics with each other.

Click to expand...

And just to mention in traditional breeding they have strict format rules how to write down the formula of the breed. Its the male I think but not sure that comes first.
But maybe I got that twisted.lol

Male x Female ?
Female x Male ?
Pollenspender x Seedbearer(Fems)?

In mj breeding this is also most of the time ignored.

Gbuddy said:

And just to mention in traditional breeding they have strict format rules how to write down the formula of the breed. Its the male I think but not sure that comes first.
But maybe I got that twisted.lol

Male x Female ?
Female x Male ?
Pollenspender x Seedbearer(Fems)?

In mj breeding this is also most of the time ignored.

Click to expand...

It should always be Female x Male. Even in cannabis breeding, you rarely see the male listed first. For reversals, the pollen donor is listed second.

jayblaze710 said:

It should always be Female x Male. Even in cannabis breeding, you rarely see the male listed first. For reversals, the pollen donor is listed second.

Click to expand...

COOOL! Trara^^^
Thats why I love RIU!
Thanks for the input Sir!!

jayblaze710 said:

Some of this is incorrect.

When you cross two unrelated strains, it’s called an F1. That’s correct.

Crossing two F1 siblings to each other will produce F2s. F2s are important for breeding purposes because it’s the earliest generation that you can get complete recombination of the parental genotypes. In general, true F2 plants will show significantly more variation than in the F1 generation.

F2 x F2 = F3
F3 x F3 = F4 etc

If you cross an F1 back to one of the original parents, that is a backcross.

Click to expand...

I can't figure out how to like this post.
Good info. ;0)