legallyflying
Well-Known Member
These....
High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out
- Thread starter legallyflying
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
That's exactly the same model I'm using, yes. I run 4 CXB 3590 72V chips on one.
One could also run 8 CXB3590 32V chips on this same driver, they'll run at 23W apiece and be some 64% efficient!
Kevin the Great
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I was thinking. It's not like a light switch cuts both the neutral and the hot.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Why yes, seeing as I have sooo much free time on my hands.
So far the leds seem to be holding there own against the HID lights. The buds seem to be about the same size. The colot looks better...but that is likely because they are under white, not yellow light.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't get your 2lbs. The buds that go under my COBs in my flower room do just as well as those that go under my Gavitas - mind you there is a bit of overlap. But still, I'm impressed. Veg growth is outstanding as well.
Great experiment. I'll be watching.
Great experiment. I'll be watching.
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
Vert is one area that I think the COBs make less sense. Interested to see what happens here, but one of the major advantages of the COBs in a horizontal grow is all light is directed down, not 360 degrees around a bulb. This is anything but an advantage in a vert setup.
Of course it will work and work well. Just not sure it has the same bang for the buck vertically.
Of course it will work and work well. Just not sure it has the same bang for the buck vertically.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
I see the point your getting at but you forget that we are casting light on a flat surface, not a round one. One thing that is for sure is that there are many many growers that have a hard time thinking outside the box.
Don't get stuck on the labels my friend. Maybe we are not doing vert, maybe we are doing sideways horizontal? Because that is really what we have going on, four flat 3' x 4' scrogs per plant.
It's not about sq. footage, it's about cubic footage!! And if LED lack penetration, what better way to use them than vertically as our canopy is 1' thick at best.
Soooo, let's do the math, because I have.
Traditional horz. 4x4 per 1k light. Your quality canopy is 1.5.. maybe 2' deep... although 2 feet is a stretch for dense bud so lwts say 1.75. So one bulb horizontal yields 16 x 1.75 = 28 cubic feet of bud.
NOW DIVIDE THAT BY SQUARE FOOTAGE OF FLOOR SPACE to get an index to grow room utilization. 28/16 = 1.75. Not sure what the units would be.. lets say "unit per sq.ft. floor space". Unless your truly dense you follow me.
Vertical we have.. 12 sq ft per side, let's say 1 foot thick. That is 48 cubic feet of bud. Divided by floor space.. 9 sq. Ft. Which yields 48/9= 5.33. Hell, let's say the vert canopy is only .75 thick.. that is still 48x.75/9 = 4.
So now you know why vertical makes sense; cob, hps, pretty much anything except gavita.. which are retarded in my opinion. Ok, not retarded, they do work just waaaay to hot.
Word on the street in oregon, they are going to regulate hid bulbs in 2017 which is why we are doing these field tests.
pinner420
Well-Known Member
Its funny that this info is out there in 50 flavors but folks are still lined up to buy hoods and extra fans. I haven't read all of your work but was wondering what your go to for chillers is?
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
So now you know why vertical makes sense; cob, hps,
Never questioned "why vertical makes sense", I can do the basic math.
My point was simply that one of the major advantages for horizontal users of LEDs is the 110 degree output plane.
Your design, while perfectly valid and serviceable will show a far lower relative efficiency advantage over a similar side by side that is grown horizontally.
Reflector losses account for a good portion of what makes LEDs the better choice. Bare bulb vert does not have reflector losses and so is more efficient beyond just more effective use of space.
Never questioned "why vertical makes sense", I can do the basic math.
My point was simply that one of the major advantages for horizontal users of LEDs is the 110 degree output plane.
Your design, while perfectly valid and serviceable will show a far lower relative efficiency advantage over a similar side by side that is grown horizontally.
Reflector losses account for a good portion of what makes LEDs the better choice. Bare bulb vert does not have reflector losses and so is more efficient beyond just more effective use of space.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Nope. I've done the work and you haven't. It doesn't work like this.
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
What doesn't work like this?
So far you have laughed at me and offered nothing to refute my contention that a vertical bare hps bulb is more efficient than a horizontal hooded one?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
No, I've been laughing at your assertions that somehow vertical growing isn't as worthy as flatlander styles. Meanwhile, noticing that indeed you've put up no evidence.
Then you said that COB LED isn't amenable to vertical growing, again with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
Since I've actually done all the above, I'm laughing at your presumptuousness.
Does that help?
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
I NEVER said that vert isnt as worthy.
I NEVER said that COBs are not amenable to vert.
Show me where I said either of those things.
Let me try again for you real slow ok?
The title of this thread is "High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out"
All I have said today is a vert hung HPS bulb is more efficient than an HPS bulb hung horizontally in a hood.
Clear enough?
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Mt point was that since we are shining a light on a perfectly flat plane, there is absolutely no differnece between our grow and a horizontal grow.
Perhaps you can point out how our setup is using the COBs differently than a horizontal set up....
Perhaps you can point out how our setup is using the COBs differently than a horizontal set up....
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
Your setup is not. You are correct.
Look, can we agree that bare bulb vert is more efficient than horizontal inside a hood for HPS? If we cannot agree on this then this will be my last post here.
Now, most people are not doing vert, for good reasons or bad, not the point.
Therefore most people who do similar "shootouts" or comparisons are working horizontally. That means that their comparisons are starting out with HPS in a less than optimal condition. This has the effect of making the comparison easier for the COB.
Your setup is competing against the more efficient use case for HPS and therefore will have a harder time measuring up.
I have said NOTHING about the growing style itself, simply that your shootout is a much tougher challenge for COB chips than most.
I have not used HIDs in a long time, I understand the advantages of LEDs, and vert. I am very interested to see how you do.
Look, can we agree that bare bulb vert is more efficient than horizontal inside a hood for HPS? If we cannot agree on this then this will be my last post here.
Now, most people are not doing vert, for good reasons or bad, not the point.
Therefore most people who do similar "shootouts" or comparisons are working horizontally. That means that their comparisons are starting out with HPS in a less than optimal condition. This has the effect of making the comparison easier for the COB.
Your setup is competing against the more efficient use case for HPS and therefore will have a harder time measuring up.
I have said NOTHING about the growing style itself, simply that your shootout is a much tougher challenge for COB chips than most.
I have not used HIDs in a long time, I understand the advantages of LEDs, and vert. I am very interested to see how you do.
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
The HPS is still a single point source. By spreading the COBs out you can affectively run closer and less wattage per vertical foot. Even more so on a vertical screen.
getsoutalive
Well-Known Member
Good point.
If you could bring in the diameter of each ring, you may be able to get additional towers into the same space at similar power levels.
Personally, I really like idea of custom placement of each chip. For a vert installation the pin fin design modular heat sinks will work at up to 50W passively, allowing you to adjust the placement of each chip individually where it will do the most good
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
You could also fit 3 panels in your 5'x5' area.