High Pressure Aeroponic Questions for the Newbie

FRANMACHINE

FRANMACHINE

Well-Known Member
Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping to ask a few questions as I realised aeroponics involves a lot of electrical works and fluid dynamics ...

1. Will the pressure of the system be a problem if we have different diameters of tubing; OD of 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch tubing? This is due to my diaphragm pump being 1/4 inch sizing but the Tefen Nozzle Adapter Tees are in 3/8 inch sizing.

2. I keep seeing “Tefen” for mist nozzles. Is this the gold standard brand? There are different specs for Tefen nozzles as shown in the tips. “0.7 - 80 -F” or “22/20” and “21/0.5” What are these specs for? Any recommendations on where to buy parts for Tefen?

3. Heat being a major factor for the nutrient delivery for the roots, are there any problems with the heat generated from the Solenoids valves and Pump? I read that solenoid valves can get very hot and it needs a heat switch. People have been suggesting to insulate the tubings which I find redundant in theory.

4. Also, how do you compute for the maximum distance for the tubing? (Does adding an accumulator tank increase distance of tubing?)

Hoping the pros can shed some light on these concerns!

Purchased Parts List for an 8x 5-Gallon Bucket system:

Aquatec 8800
Solenoid Valves 24v
Aquatec Pressure Switches 100psi
Check valves
Accumulator tank 6 gal
Pressure gauge
Fittings and tubings 1/4 and 1/8
 
Last edited:
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
FRANMACHINE said:
Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping to ask a few questions as I realised aeroponics involves a lot of electrical works and fluid dynamics ...

1. Will the pressure of the system be a problem if we have different diameters of tubing; OD of 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch tubing? This is due to my diaphragm pump being 1/4 inch sizing but the Tefen Nozzle Adapter Tees are in 3/8 inch sizing.

2. I keep seeing “Tefen” for mist nozzles. Is this the gold standard brand? There are different specs for Tefen nozzles as shown in the tips. “0.7 - 80 -F” or “22/20” and “21/0.5” What are these specs for? Any recommendations on where to buy parts for Tefen?

3. Heat being a major factor for the nutrient delivery for the roots, are there any problems with the heat generated from the Solenoids valves and Pump? I read that solenoid valves can get very hot and it needs a heat switch. People have been suggesting to insulate the tubings which I find redundant in theory.

4. Also, how do you compute for the maximum distance for the tubing? (Does adding an accumulator tank increase distance of tubing?)

Hoping the pros can shed some light on these concerns!

Purchased Parts List for an 8x 5-Gallon Bucket system:

Aquatec 8800
Solenoid Valves 24v
Aquatec Pressure Switches 100psi
Check valves
Accumulator tank 6 gal
Pressure gauge
Fittings and tubings 1/4 and 1/8
Click to expand...
If you're dealing with different diameters, it's usually a good thing but only when going from big to smaller, not the other way.
 
A

Aero Grow

Member
FRANMACHINE said:
Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping to ask a few questions as I realised aeroponics involves a lot of electrical works and fluid dynamics ...

1. Will the pressure of the system be a problem if we have different diameters of tubing; OD of 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch tubing? This is due to my diaphragm pump being 1/4 inch sizing but the Tefen Nozzle Adapter Tees are in 3/8 inch sizing.

2. I keep seeing “Tefen” for mist nozzles. Is this the gold standard brand? There are different specs for Tefen nozzles as shown in the tips. “0.7 - 80 -F” or “22/20” and “21/0.5” What are these specs for? Any recommendations on where to buy parts for Tefen?

3. Heat being a major factor for the nutrient delivery for the roots, are there any problems with the heat generated from the Solenoids valves and Pump? I read that solenoid valves can get very hot and it needs a heat switch. People have been suggesting to insulate the tubings which I find redundant in theory.

4. Also, how do you compute for the maximum distance for the tubing? (Does adding an accumulator tank increase distance of tubing?)

Hoping the pros can shed some light on these concerns!

Purchased Parts List for an 8x 5-Gallon Bucket system:

Aquatec 8800
Solenoid Valves 24v
Aquatec Pressure Switches 100psi
Check valves
Accumulator tank 6 gal
Pressure gauge
Fittings and tubings 1/4 and 1/8
Click to expand...
Bumping this because I am using almost all the exact same equipment for my build. How'd your setup turn out? Find any answers to your questions? Curious if I can pick you brain about pressure switch placement and desired psi to your nozzles?
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
FRANMACHINE said:
1. Will the pressure of the system be a problem if we have different diameters of tubing; OD of 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch tubing? This is due to my diaphragm pump being 1/4 inch sizing but the Tefen Nozzle Adapter Tees are in 3/8 inch sizing.
Click to expand...
Probably not. There will be a small drop in pressure, but at the low flow rates you will be operating at, it wont matter much. Just increase the pressure regulator slightly if needed.

FRANMACHINE said:
2. I keep seeing “Tefen” for mist nozzles. Is this the gold standard brand? There are different specs for Tefen nozzles as shown in the tips. “0.7 - 80 -F” or “22/20” and “21/0.5” What are these specs for? Any recommendations on where to buy parts for Tefen?
Click to expand...
Which nozzles you end up with depends on a number of things, but mostly the size and configuration of your root chamber. You dont want to start with nozzles. Start with how many plants you want to grow, then decide on a chamber size andf shape, then pick nozzles that will give you full coverage of all the plants AND adequately fill the chamber with mist BUT not too much mist. Its a balancing act.

FRANMACHINE said:
3. Heat being a major factor for the nutrient delivery for the roots, are there any problems with the heat generated from the Solenoids valves and Pump? I read that solenoid valves can get very hot and it needs a heat switch. People have been suggesting to insulate the tubings which I find redundant in theory.
Click to expand...
Your solenoids will be outside the chamber, so not adding any heat. However, heat is a major issue. Most people fail when trying HPA because they cannot control root chamber temps. The chamber is typically inside the grow space - which is typically in the hi 70's to low 80's. Those temps are way too hi for a root chamber - root rot will grow rampant unless you use aggressive sterilization and very good control of your rez. Just wrapping the chamber in reflective foil or insulation wont cut it.

FRANMACHINE said:
4. Also, how do you compute for the maximum distance for the tubing? (Does adding an accumulator tank increase distance of tubing?)
Click to expand...
Not really a factor unless you are doing a huge room - or using soft tubing.

One thing you left out is a pressure reducer/regulator between the accumulator tank and the solenoids. It helps a lot to maintain a uniform pressure at the solenoids. So you decide what pressure your particular nozzles need. Then you adjust your pump to pressurize your tank to maybe 20-30 PSI above that - be sure to stay UNDER the max pressure for the tank!!!

Then you set the pressure reducer to the lower pressure that your nozzles want. Be sure your pump kicks back ON before the tank drops below the nozzle pressure that is set by the reducer.

This isnt absolutely necessary, but your mist quality will be greatly improved as will your results.

Also dont forget filters. Id put one between the rez and pump - at lest 200 mesh or smaller. If you can swing for a hi pressure filter, Id also add one right before the pressure reducer. These nozzles have small openings that clog easily.

Oh - do not use any nutes that have ANY organic comonents, ingredients, add-ons, etc. Pure salts only. Bad bacteria just love that organic crap. Im not talking organic as in health food. I mean anything that comes from a plant or animal. No kelp, seaweed, worm casings, etc etc etc. Just pure minerals.

Jacks 321 Hydro is my preferred nute for hydro of any type, but there are other options.

Edit: a couple of other tips. Be sure to get nozzles with ADV's - anti-drip valves - or add them on. Also, try really hard to keep the solenoids as close to the nozzles as possible - but not inside the chamber. A salty water filled space wont be good for them at all.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Larry3215 said:
Probably not. There will be a small drop in pressure, but at the low flow rates you will be operating at, it wont matter much. Just increase the pressure regulator slightly if needed.



Which nozzles you end up with depends on a number of things, but mostly the size and configuration of your root chamber. You dont want to start with nozzles. Start with how many plants you want to grow, then decide on a chamber size andf shape, then pick nozzles that will give you full coverage of all the plants AND adequately fill the chamber with mist BUT not too much mist. Its a balancing act.



Your solenoids will be outside the chamber, so not adding any heat. However, heat is a major issue. Most people fail when trying HPA because they cannot control root chamber temps. The chamber is typically inside the grow space - which is typically in the hi 70's to low 80's. Those temps are way too hi for a root chamber - root rot will grow rampant unless you use aggressive sterilization and very good control of your rez. Just wrapping the chamber in reflective foil or insulation wont cut it.



Not really a factor unless you are doing a huge room - or using soft tubing.

One thing you left out is a pressure reducer/regulator between the accumulator tank and the solenoids. It helps a lot to maintain a uniform pressure at the solenoids. So you decide what pressure your particular nozzles need. Then you adjust your pump to pressurize your tank to maybe 20-30 PSI above that - be sure to stay UNDER the max pressure for the tank!!!

Then you set the pressure reducer to the lower pressure that your nozzles want. Be sure your pump kicks back ON before the tank drops below the nozzle pressure that is set by the reducer.

This isnt absolutely necessary, but your mist quality will be greatly improved as will your results.

Also dont forget filters. Id put one between the rez and pump - at lest 200 mesh or smaller. If you can swing for a hi pressure filter, Id also add one right before the pressure reducer. These nozzles have small openings that clog easily.

Oh - do not use any nutes that have ANY organic comonents, ingredients, add-ons, etc. Pure salts only. Bad bacteria just love that organic crap. Im not talking organic as in health food. I mean anything that comes from a plant or animal. No kelp, seaweed, worm casings, etc etc etc. Just pure minerals.

Jacks 321 Hydro is my preferred nute for hydro of any type, but there are other options.

Edit: a couple of other tips. Be sure to get nozzles with ADV's - anti-drip valves - or add them on. Also, try really hard to keep the solenoids as close to the nozzles as possible - but not inside the chamber. A salty water filled space wont be good for them at all.
Click to expand...
With correct spray time intervals and water temp you actually cool the root chambers with every spray/mist. But yes insulation is important.

You also need a very contained system without any leaks so you get proper air/water exchange. Either by draining to waste or cycling the return pump emptying the root chamber tank, returning it to the res and filling the root chamber with new fresh air.

First tip is don't use brass nozzles, stainless work fine. The specs is for the diameter of the hole on the spray nozzle 0.7, 0.5. 0.07 etc. The other numbers I believe is the thread size? May be wrong on that one.

And like mentioned, run it sterile. You don't need more than 1-0.5ppm of residual chlorine for sterilization in HPA systems. I also use Drip Clean. I believe it prevents salt build up and so far it's been working for me.

I'm still pretty new to this whole HPA thing. Only studied it for two years and built my first system a little over a year ago. The system has since been updated. Check my journal if you want to see a simple HPA build. Just starting up again.

Planning on upgrading as I go and develop more modules and sensors into the system for monitoring. I don't have good access to a PC for coding but in the near future I will be able to do more work and testing.
 
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Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Solenoid valves typically draw 5w of power when running. They stay cool, my run for only 3 seconds on and 3 min off. Spray cycling forever.

Pumps only run when you prime the system and when it builds pressure. There's nothing in my system that adds heat. My entire system draws under 20w.
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
FRANMACHINE said:
Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping to ask a few questions as I realised aeroponics involves a lot of electrical works and fluid dynamics ...
Click to expand...
Im going to be starting a general HPA/AA thread in the next day or two in the main forum if you are interested.

However, before you start I think its important to note that HPA and AA are not for everyone. It takes a fair amount of testing and fiddling around and trial and error to get an advanced aero system working well. It also takes a lot more time monitoring and adjusting things in the early stages than you are used to with soil.

Plus - it depends on your goals. If you like fiddling around with gizmos and gadgets and puttering around with the hardware, testing things like timing intervals, flow rates, etc - then you will like getting into aero on this scale. If not, it will be much more difficult.

If you are wanting to switch because you have read that you will get higher yields, faster grows, etc etc with aero - maybe, or maybe not. Things like environment, PH, humidity, nute balance, and your general growing skills have a far larger impact on yields, quality, etc than just switching to aero. In fact its much easier to fail with aero than it is with soil.

You might want to consider trying some other type of hydro first - to get your feet wet ;)

On the other hand, if its what you want to do, then go for it :D

I went from one soil grow to trying 4 other types of hydro then to HPA and finally to AA. I went from soil to hydro out of boredom. Soil grows suck! ;) Then after doing several different hydro grows I found out about fuzzy roots and that was it. I became addicted to fuzzy roots and the only way to get those is with properly done HPA or AA - and it takes a good bit of delicate balancing to make it work.

This is what Im after.
20201128_192553.jpg
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
leblanca said:
ou might want to take a look at my grow from last year, go through my journal, maybe you will see something interesting.
Aeroponic grow journal
Click to expand...
Oh - I forgot to mention - those mysterious fungal/mold spots on your leaves were probably due to your humidifier. Visible 'fog' is not actual humidity. Its micro droplets - just like the ones you are spraying inside your root chamber. Its only after they evaporate that there is a change in humidity. The problem is that those tiny droplets will accumulate on your leaves the same way they do on your roots. This excess moisture and feed bacterial or fungal growth.

I had the exact same issues when I first started using an ultrasonic fogger to increase humidity in my tent. I started out with the exhaust pointing towards my plants and the 'fog' covered them nicely. Within 2-3 days I started seeing signs just like yours. It took me a couple of weeks to figure it out.

I ended up pointing the exhaust of the fogger to the side of the tent so the droplets would have more time to evaporate before settling. I also had to change the exhaust ducting so that the mist had a longer distance before it left the bucket I was using as a fogger. Problem solved.
 
L

leblanca

Member
Larry3215 said:
Oh - I forgot to mention - those mysterious fungal/mold spots on your leaves were probably due to your humidifier. Visible 'fog' is not actual humidity. Its micro droplets - just like the ones you are spraying inside your root chamber. Its only after they evaporate that there is a change in humidity. The problem is that those tiny droplets will accumulate on your leaves the same way they do on your roots. This excess moisture and feed bacterial or fungal growth.

I had the exact same issues when I first started using an ultrasonic fogger to increase humidity in my tent. I started out with the exhaust pointing towards my plants and the 'fog' covered them nicely. Within 2-3 days I started seeing signs just like yours. It took me a couple of weeks to figure it out.

I ended up pointing the exhaust of the fogger to the side of the tent so the droplets would have more time to evaporate before settling. I also had to change the exhaust ducting so that the mist had a longer distance before it left the bucket I was using as a fogger. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input i keep that in mind, the humidifier hasn't worked most of the grow as the fan wasn't waterproof an droplets were falling in the tent so i had to shut it down, but i keep in mind of my next grow which is just starting.
I just re did the humidifier this week, used a marine fan and a PVC pipe that i punched through the side of the tent at a 45 upwards angle, seems to help but since i circulate 600 CFM of air in the tent the humidity only goes up by like 10-15 %, and thats with 400W humidifier...
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
I had the same issue - too much air exchange for the humidifier to keep up. My normal winter time humidity in the tent - when the tent isnt full to the brim - is in the 35% range - I keep the tent around 80F.

My DIY humidifier could only raise the humidity to maybe 40% except during lights off when the temps dropped to the mid 70's. I had to drastically reduce the air exchange to get it to go up to 50-52%. Im happy with that actually.

In the past, when my tent gets filled to the brim, the humidity would average in the 70% range. I was always fighting bud rot when it got that high, so Im ok keeping it lower. My VPD numbers suck, but thats better than having bud rot and loosing the entire harvest!
 
D

Diy user

Member
[QUOTE = "Larry3215、投稿：16061905、メンバー：984113"]
私は同じ問題を抱えていました-加湿器が追いつくには空気交換が多すぎます。テント内の通常の冬季の湿度（テントが縁までいっぱいになっていないとき）は35％の範囲ですが、テントは80F前後に保っています。

私のDIY加湿器は、気温が70年代半ばに下がったときの消灯時を除いて、湿度を40％までしか上げることができませんでした。空気交換を50〜52％まで上げるには、空気交換を大幅に減らす必要がありました。実はそれに満足しています。

以前は、テントがいっぱいになると、湿度は平均70％の範囲でした。高くなったときはいつもつぼみの腐敗と戦っていたので、低くしておいても大丈夫です。私のVPD数はひどいですが、それは芽が腐って収穫全体を失うよりはましです！
[/見積もり]
 
D

Diy user

Member
[QUOTE = "leblanca、投稿：16060716、メンバー：1047664"]
去年からの私の成長を見て、私のジャーナルを読んでみてください。何か面白いものが見つかるかもしれません。
エアロポニックグロージャーナル
[/見積もり]
ヘルプHPA接続の12〜16ノズルに適したポンプを知っていますか？フィルターサイズは15mmです。16mmホースから4mmを使用して12個のノズルが取り付けられています。
 
Rdubz

Rdubz

Well-Known Member
Diy user said:
[QUOTE = "leblanca、投稿：16060716、メンバー：1047664"]
去年からの私の成長を見て、私のジャーナルを読んでみてください。何か面白いものが見つかるかもしれません。
エアロポニックグロージャーナル
[/見積もり]
ヘルプHPA接続の12〜16ノズルに適したポンプを知っていますか？フィルターサイズは15mmです。16mmホースから4mmを使用して12個のノズルが取り付けられています。
Click to expand...
Google translate
I had the same problem-too much air exchange for the humidifier to catch up. The normal winter humidity inside the tent (when the tent is not full to the edge) is in the 35% range, but the tent is kept around 80F.

My DIY humidifier could only raise the humidity to 40%, except when it was turned off when the temperature dropped in the mid-1970s. To increase air exchange to 50-52%, air exchange had to be significantly reduced. I'm really happy with that.

Previously, when the tent was full, the humidity averaged in the 70% range. I was always fighting bud rot when it was high, so it's okay to keep it low. My VPD number is terrible, but it's better than rotting buds and losing the entire harvest!
[/Estimate]

@Larry3215
 
Rdubz

Rdubz

Well-Known Member
I copied and pasted this from Google translate for the first post

High Pressure Aeroponic Questions for the Newbie

Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping...
www.rollitup.org

Rdubz said:
Google translate
I had the same problem-too much air exchange for the humidifier to catch up. The normal winter humidity inside the tent (when the tent is not full to the edge) is in the 35% range, but the tent is kept around 80F.

My DIY humidifier could only raise the humidity to 40%, except when it was turned off when the temperature dropped in the mid-1970s. To increase air exchange to 50-52%, air exchange had to be significantly reduced. I'm really happy with that.

Previously, when the tent was full, the humidity averaged in the 70% range. I was always fighting bud rot when it was high, so it's okay to keep it low. My VPD number is terrible, but it's better than rotting buds and losing the entire harvest!
[/Estimate]

@Larry3215
Click to expand...
 
D

Diy user

Member
Hose fitting size 4mm → 8mm → 13mm → 25mm → 13mm → Nozzle 4mm There are 12 nozzles SHURflo Industrial Pump--198GPH, 115V, 1/2 inch, Model Number 2088-594-154 Aquatec High Flow Booster Pump 8852-2J03-B424 Can I use either?
 
D

Diy user

Member
Diy user said:
Hose fitting size 4mm → 8mm → 13mm → 25mm → 13mm → Nozzle 4mm There are 12 nozzles SHURflo Industrial Pump--198GPH, 115V, 1/2 inch, Model Number 2088-594-154 Aquatec High Flow Booster Pump 8852-2J03-B424 Can I use either?
Click to expand...
Rdubz said:
I copied and pasted this from Google translate for the first post

High Pressure Aeroponic Questions for the Newbie

Hey guys! Newbie here.. grew 3 cycles of soil in a couple of 4x4 tents with hps 1000w setup previously and I’m now interested in building this race car system! A drain to waste HPA system. Been trying to find HPA threads here but haven’t had any luck with the details I’m looking for. Was hoping...
www.rollitup.org
Click to expand...
Hose fitting size 4mm → 8mm → 13mm → 25mm → 13mm → Nozzle 4mm There are 12 nozzles SHURflo Industrial Pump--198GPH, 115V, 1/2 inch, Model Number 2088-594-154 Aquatec High Flow Booster Pump 8852-2J03-B424 Can I use either?
 
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