High Pressure Aeroponics - Pump Design/mister layout/misters...

Atomizer said:

The brass anti drips are typically 75psi open, 35psi close for the low pressure version and 145psi open, 70psi close for the high pressure version.

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https://www.amazon.com/DerBlue-pressure-Anti-Drip-clogging-Nozzles，ceramic/dp/B01HYA1SBI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1478813647&sr=8-3&keywords=anti+drip+nozzle

The high pressure nozzles have much higher gate pressures than that. These are made for use at 1000psi and their minimum operation pressure is nearly 600. I'm sure there is variance between manufacturers but most of them report the activation pressure on the HP ones as several hundred psi. They are way outside of what we have reason to use.

-Eskander

the ones i ordered open at around 35 psi, i wanted them to open closer to 75, but i will take what i can get. They were about a buck a pop, shipping included. They actually (in the picture) look really nice. i only need about 48 of them, but had to buy 100, so i guess i'll have a couple of spares.

quick question, my plants are pretty short and bushy, not leggy at all. is that a good thing or is short and bushy a sign they are getting too much light or not enough?

Eskander said:

https://www.amazon.com/DerBlue-pressure-Anti-Drip-clogging-Nozzles，ceramic/dp/B01HYA1SBI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1478813647&sr=8-3&keywords=anti+drip+nozzle

The high pressure nozzles have much higher gate pressures than that. These are made for use at 1000psi and their minimum operation pressure is nearly 600. I'm sure there is variance between manufacturers but most of them report the activation pressure on the HP ones as several hundred psi. They are way outside of what we have reason to use.

-Eskander

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Here`s a test vid from 7 years ago to give an idea of what 150psi looks like on a 0.3mm brass nozzle. I cant remenber if it was a fogco or an amfog but they`re all very similar ime The thing to note is the non symetrical narrow pattern doesnt alter much over a pressure range of 100-800psi so you`ll need quite a few to get the coverage. You`ll find this type of nozzle very prone to partial clogging, they`re almost impossible to unclog and wont perform the same as when they were new even if you can manage it
I recommend having a lot of spare nozzles on hand and checking the ones in the chamber at least daily to make sure they are ok.


The flow rates of the nozzles you posted higher up the thread seem very high. The one in the vid is 2.7LPH at 150psi. Here`s the full list so you can compare the difference

Lol. well I only needed 48, but I bought 100, so I should be covered. at least for now

With good filtering you should be ok for a while. I used them with dtw and nutes filtered to 1 micron and it didnt help much

got my misters today, I don't think my pump is up to the task of using them. Some open, others don't. The ones that do open don't mist very much. I pulled the spring out of them and tried them running without the antidrip feature. Without the spring they are fantastic misters, MUCH better then the brass ones i picked up on amazon. They sent me 303 stainless, they are pretty and very well made. The 2 piece design will make cleaning them much easer. I highly recommend them. If there is some kind of fluid dynamics expert out there in RIU land, i would be interested in figuring out the formula for finding out the psi per mister port. If i was going to guess, my 48 mister heads with my 100 psi pump drops my psi per mister down below the threshold needed to properly run the misters. I wonder what psi I would need to run them correctly.

Make yourself an adapter so you can plug a pressure guage anywhere in the system, JG fittings make this pretty easy. If you`re using 1/4" tubing it doesnt take much to have a significant impact on the pressure. Its best to test the pressure at the nozzle position thats furthest from the pump/accumulator.
Check your pump spec for flowrate at pressure and then compare it to the combined flowrate of your 48 nozzles at the opening pressure. Elbows, tee`s, tubing length/diameter etc will also have an effect. Ballpark for the pump will be at least 1gpm @ 100psi. If its an accumulator driven system then the pump spec isnt important, just the losses in the plumbing

so after what could only be described as total and complete failure, I have shelved my aeroponics setup. I will try dutch buckets, i'm told that i would have to go out of my way to screw this up. I hope that is correct.

Anyway, if anyone want to buy any parts of my system, i will part it out. Really the only thing worth salvaging would be the misters and pumps.

Maybe someday i will try this again, also, i would have to agree, I should have DTW vs recycling water. once 1 plant gets root rot, it spreads like wildfire.

nxsov180db said:

With true HP aero you want a very low misting time, around a couple seconds down to even tenths of a second. I used to use Teffen nozzles, a pretty small accumulator tank, an aquatec 8800, a solenoid for every mister, You want to lowest amount of volume between the solenoid and the mister nozzles (ex. you would not want to run a 2 foot length of 1/2 pvc between the mister and solenoid. I used to thread the nozzles directly into the solenoids, you want and instant on and off). Nutrients, as long as you stay away from organic you are good to go, I used GH micro/grow/bloom, use an inline 200 mesh filter on the intake side of the pump, I never had a clog. Misters per cubic measurement really depend on the nozzles, pressure, ect.. Only way I see you getting that part down is to hook nozzles up and trail and error, getting your feet wet with HP aero is just that, a whole lot of trial and error. I have A LOT of parts (pumps, nozzles, solenoids) that I would sell to you if you wanted...

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Was wondering if you still had parts you would be willing to sell? @muleface I'm interested in your parts as well!

Cindy Wang said:

Was wondering if you still had parts you would be willing to sell? @muleface I'm interested in your parts as well!

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I do have parts. Lots of them. I have a couple of high pressure pumps and a ton of nozzles. The rest of my parts are things it would be cheaper to pick up locally then it would be to ship (pvc, fitting, etc)

if you are interested, i can get you exact part numbers and specs.

@Atomizer. Best thread ever. So much info crucial info here I need on proper root Oxygenation. So you say a thin film of water would not let enough gasses diffuse in and out? So the NFT notion that a thin film of water adds oxygen to solution, would you say that is unfounded?

Lol from hp aero to dutch buckets

My experience with low pressure aero was enough to make.me not want to try hp..

dont get me wrong stuff grew great but at the time i was using advanced GMB. And it would clog sprayers

The allure with hp is great as its just too freakin cool.

But unless you got it set up just right
Its just way too touchy lol plus alot more hands on with checking sprayers and everything else

I also didnt like the thought of not being able to clean out the pressure tanks .


This led me to rdwc. And its great but still requirse more energy and can be prone to root pathogens and other issues

So im going to do a side by side menicsus nft set up with my rdwc to see if it can keep up with rdwc. If it can i will be switching

HydroLynx said:

@Atomizer. So you say a thin film of water would not let enough gasses diffuse in and out? So the NFT notion that a thin film of water adds oxygen to solution, would you say that is unfounded?

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NFT troughs don't have much air circulation by design. You are trying to limit the addition of water to the air in the grow area after all. They have lots of surface area but in long troughs it isn't always enough by its self. Does kinda depend on how the plants a supported and if air can easily difuse in and out of those openings. For what I grow (habaneros), I start in rock wool plugs and then put those plugs into net cups filled with loose rock wool and top them with fine gravel. There isn't much air flow out of those and pretty much any humidity in the grow area is due to transpiration.

If you look at commercial NFT systems some of them get to 60 feet long and in those you have both nutrient and oxygen gradients from start to finish. In 8 foot runs, they are going to be fine as long as the return water either falls through the air into the reservoir or you have an air stone. Provided, of course, that your nutrient temps don't get too high. If you are growing pot, you are far better off getting wide purpose built NFT channels for plants like tomatoes than just cutting up a vinyl fence post. They have enough root spacing to the sides to not grow deep clumps and since the lid pulls off the rail, cleaning out the roots after harvest is a trivial task. Round bottom NFT is a very bad idea btw.

If your troughs are raised and the water can fall into the reservoir it also lets you add a few layers of pond filter material in between which will keep your reservoir clean and reduce your pump failure rate.

@Cold$moke yeah I tried those for years and it led me straight to DFT type systems


Thanx for your input Eksander. I actually have been trying a flood-n-drain style DFT (deep flow technique)

The thing I'm noticing with my system in square 8cm (3.2") pvc pipe, is that if plants get too large then the root mat gets compacted and they suffer more and more as they mature. I'm lately wondering if 20cm (8") diameter tubes instead can do the job for my sog style plants, along with a beefier pump to ensure the strong turbulent flow. Yeah so large tubes may be bad even for DFT, and I think you also said earlier in this thread the roots just clump at the bottom of round tubes, so then in my mind half the root mat gets cut off from fresh oxygenated flow. I have noticed at harvest that scum formed under the root mat on the grow-tube, even when I tried 1-plant DWC scrog to think if it. I also live in a hot place which doesn't help oxygenation.

The flood-n-drain style design applied to DFT is intended to give the roots some breathe time, but if a thin film of water around the roots, like say 1mm won't actually oxygenate like i thought it might, then what is the point of leaving roots dripping wet in air.

Although the one thing I love above this flood-n-drain DFT thing I've been working on is that stagnant air gets pushed then fresh air gets pulled in every time the pump cycles on and off.

Im desinging and building a new system to go side by side with my rdwc after this run is finished.

In 15 years ive grown for about 3 years in coco
And the rest has pretty much been hydro of some sort.

Stated with waterfarm.
Then dwc
Then low pressure aero/nft in fence posts.
Then lowpressure aero/dwc with extra tall root chamber.
Now im on my 3rd rdwc design and i think i got.most yhe kinks worked out..and this will be my last setup for a few years .

But if the next setup comes close to matching the rdwc then i will switch.

I love the mad scientist aspect of hp aero and fogponics and rdwc.

But take the coolness factor away and im charging my self to run air pumps and circulation pumps 24/7.

My new setup is going to be called a meniscus nft table.

Basically the roots are in a larger chamber where there is a very thin layer of nutrients film on a thin capilary mat.
Im also going to incorporate a way to circulate air

Where some roots will be directly in contact as more roots grow they stack up in the air

I love my rdwc. But this method might be better as far as operating costs ect.

There are pros and cons with every system and style.

I havent found one yet that id call perfect

What is DFT?

Cold$moke said:

Im desinging and building a new system to go side by side with my rdwc after this run is finished.

In 15 years ive grown for about 3 years in coco
And the rest has pretty much been hydro of some sort.

Stated with waterfarm.
Then dwc
Then low pressure aero/nft in fence posts.
Then lowpressure aero/dwc with extra tall root chamber.
Now im on my 3rd rdwc design and i think i got.most yhe kinks worked out..and this will be my last setup for a few years .

But if the next setup comes close to matching the rdwc then i will switch.

I love the mad scientist aspect of hp aero and fogponics and rdwc.

But take the coolness factor away and im charging my self to run air pumps and circulation pumps 24/7.

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The only one I haven't done is RDWC and that was my next try but I'm thinking maybe not ........ not sure what to do . I'm worried about the roots a bit but I've covered all of my inlets wit silk screen which seems to work well.