High Pressure Aeroponics

PetFlora said:

all 3000K-6500 cobs have 'green' in them, much more in the 6500s. You should not need to add any 'green'.

You want roughly 80% 6500 for veg, 50/50 for early flower then 20:80 (6500/3000) for flower

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Hi Pet,

I did some more research on the colour spectrum vs. growth response and it supported my understandings pertaining to photosynthesis and plant biomass. In synopsis; UV has the most energy/power; the shortest wavelength. UV damages the cells, but also triggers the development of protective molecules e.g. terpenes/THC, it is not used in photosynthesis. Blue wavelengths provide the most photosynthetic energy, as they are more energetic. They will also have the greatest perpetrating power next to UV, but they are absorbed quickly and do not make it to the lower cells in a leaf. Greens penetrate the leaf, but they have limited, if any, photosynthetic ability, but they modify cellular responses. They irradiate below the canopy because they are reflected by the leaf, which may have a correlation to the observed stomal closing effect produced by green light. This could be the cause behind statements akin to ‘greens driving photosynthesis’ and these are a misinterpretations of the research. Red wavelengths exhibit a strong photosynthetic response, but only provide 2/3 the energy compared to blues. If a plant is provided only reds, it does not do well.

One study that I came across quantified the increase in plant development with varied amounts of red and blue light. It supports the hypothesis that a full spectrum; 30-50% Blue, Reds, UV (A/B) and a smattering of green, will be most conducive to growth. The creation of this spectrum should be possible with full spectrum COB LED's, Cool White COB LED's, and Warm White COB LED's.

Hogewoning, S. W., Trouwborst, G., Maljaars, H., Poorter, H., van Ieperen, W., & Harbinson, J. (2010). Blue light dose–responses of leaf photosynthesis, morphology, and chemical composition of Cucumis sativus grown under different combinations of red and blue light. Journal of Experimental Botany, 61(11), 3107–3117. http://doi.org/10.1093/jxb/erq132

Muneer, S., Kim, E. J., Park, J. S., & Lee, J. H. (2014). Influence of Green, Red and Blue Light Emitting Diodes on Multiprotein Complex Proteins and Photosynthetic Activity under Different Light Intensities in Lettuce Leaves (Lactuca sativa L.). International Journal of Molecular Sciences, 15(3), 4657–4670. http://doi.org/10.3390/ijms15034657

Back in th earliest days of LEDs, I paid $360 for a R/B UFO, billed at 90w, so, probably not even 40 actual. That hosing started me on a Light education path. I am a semi broad brush strokes guy.

That said, the best bang for the buck was 4ft HO T5 bulbs. I bought an 8 bulb Quantum Bad Boy and ordered their bulbs (6500 & 3000ish), somewhere in the $400 range as I recall, but I didn't know to mix them. Within a month a t5 lighting thread started, the theme of which was something like Better than LEDs, and it discusses using aquarium bulbs, which come in a wide variety of spectrums, Must of had 2 of each $30 bulb to experiment with. About this time I learned that root development was better under some reds, and the plant leafs were bigger at the same young stage. And of course I started experimenting, too: by themselves, 6500s don't have enough reds, so I combined them with the warm bulbs. Now, if your as anal as you seem, with the 8 tube+ HO T5s not only can you optimize the light spectrum for veg and flower, you can also optimize ,the stages inbetween, mimicking Mother Nature.

At the same time I was staying abreast of LED developments, a whirl wind for my mind

I began experimenting with Lowes/HD household cool white and warm white screw bulbs into el cheapo 3-4 bulb vanity fixtures- neutral whites did not exist for a fews years. About 2 years later t5 LEDs started coming available, There too, it took a while before neutral whites were available

To advance your knowledge read up on The Emerson Effect

hth

Hi PetFlora!

I was up in Maine for the weekend, hence the delayed reply, and I think the site went down for a bit. I hope your Memorial Day was great and that you are well! Thanks for the reply and knowledge. I have a bit of experience with the Emerson effect as it relates to photosynthesis.

When I was explaining photosynthesis and the electron transport system to AP students, I showed how the photosystems would cascade the e- down an energy gradient to capture as much energy as possible. They had to memorize the biochemical pathways, but pragmatically understanding how the combination of wavelengths excites the photosystems is crucial to the development of an optimal artificial light source. This is the crux of using a mixed spectrum, and the basis of my liquid cooled AC COB LED system.

I endeavor to mix the spectrum in a fashion that excites both systems simultaneously while providing UVA and UVB, plus a bit of green – yet remaining cool in order to deliver 1K uMol PAR at a low temperature. If I can irradiate the crop at higher than normal levels and drive up DLI while supplementing the CO2, and provide all other growth parameters optimally, I should elicit an increased growth response.

The reasoning behind the COB LED’s is the efficiency. The new AC COB’s claim a 93% efficiency. Fluorescent bulbs get about 35%, thus much of the electricity is converted to heat. The excess heat is tough and expensive to move, so if I can convert electric to a greater quantity of light it will be more beneficial, even at the expense of a better spectrum. Slight deviations from natural light will be compensated for by the increase in net lumens/PAR.

I’ll let you know how the array performs after I create it. I’m waiting for the chips to arrive. I still need to acquire the aluminum tubing to configure the cold plate/heat sink. I should be able to create a true draw 4KW COB array for about $500. I’m excited, and I'll post pics as I build it.

- ZXC

Update

Here are a few pics from the system. I'm at about week four of flower and it's hot outside. 90 degrees is taxing my cooling system and drawing out CO2 too quickly. I really don't want to refrigerate, so I guess you get what you get and you don't get upset...



Well the clones are doing well, there is one that had to be moved to its own bucket. The rest are still in the aerocloner, but they seem to be progressing well.



The system on a whole is working pretty well. There was some human error one night, the hired help got into the vodka and forgot to open one of the valves for three days. The redundant dripper system and the HPS system kept the plants sustained, and better yet healthy, despite the fact that an idiot forgot to turn the LPS system on after flushing. Well, if I fired me, there would be no author to amuse you guys... Here is a pic of the control system as it is operating today in this unusual heat.



There are a few more issues, but on the whole I think the system is performing well. I have about 4-5 more weeks in flower, so I'll keep the progress posted.

- ZXC

Hey guys,

Here is a quick update. The plants are looking good. I took a few pics during the low-light cycle. ( Every hour I flip most of the lights off for 15 min. to cool the tent and only have a few on while it aspirates the heat.) They look purple, but you should be able to see the flowers. These are really heavy for week 5/6. I can't believe that I have three weeks to go.

There is an issue with the HPS sprayers. My accumulator is staying pressurized. I wish I could isolate and rectify the problem, but the plants are so big that I cannot physically gain access to the sprayers. This is a design problem that I will have to address for future grows. It is not a big problem because the redundant systems are providing enough water/nutes to keep the plants happy.

I think this is working well. The tale of the tape will be told after harvest. I'll post more pics and data as the weeks progress.

I'm in the process of building the liquid cooled COB LED light array. If you are intrigued, here are the links to the thread.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/driverless-ac-cob-led-build.965594/

...or closer to date.

https://www.rollitup.org/p/14294827/

Happy growing!

= ZXC

PetFlora said:

the whole concept of hpa revolves around sufficient root space as well as space around each root mass for complete misting

The root space needs to be big and long: think 2 basketballs per plant

AND...

you do not want any roots resting in solution. DTW is a must, or forget it

Some have put hammocks or screens above the bottom of the root chamber to prevent this

This means losing minimum of 2ft height, just for root chamber

hth

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PetFlora I sure took alot away from your postings on this subject way back when (thank you again for the info) been running my HPA cabinet system successfull for 5 or 6 grows over 5 years now, my biggest problem is in the root chambers, easy access to them and the roots explode filling them up fast and I tried the screen, mesh cloth etc. to keep the roots up and out of the residual nute solution to no avail they grow right on through very agressive healthy shape shifting roots can not be stopped. I have not built one yet but I have a solution to the problem it's explained and pictured with a diagram posted on my website aeroponic420.com I call them aeroponic grow carts...too many things going on!

The only way to stop roots is to create a dry air barrier they wont cross. A screen above a humid space is no deterent, they`ll just grow through it and eventually block the screen. A screen above a dry air space air prunes the roots tips that venture too close. Fwiw, 20-30 micron mist will hang in the chamber for several minutes, if its gone in 5 seconds. the droplets are a lot bigger than 20-30 micron

What Atomizer said. Hense D2W

Yes agreed I've watched fat roots reach a mesh barrier then send out hairs, breach the barrier and get large again and keep on going beautifully amazing really, as soon as I can get my new building done, I will build my grow carts solving all my root chamber whoas , just maybe??? I've trimmed them, I've thinned them everything I can think of, I just need to be able to access them and keep them in the air.

Just thought I’d post this picture of some Aeroponic roots developing to a good start, I find switching to Autoflower sure helps since the 5 gallon root chamber becomes overcrowded hence the shorter life of the Autoflower.

dochickory said:

Just thought I’d post this picture of some Aeroponic roots developing to a good start, I find switching to Autoflower sure helps since the 5 gallon root chamber becomes overcrowded hence the shorter life of the Autoflower.

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This is one plant in a 4x4, with a 5 gallon bucket root chamber. I’m flowering it right now, it’s a DVG humble pie.



I’ve grown huge plants in 5 gallon buckets. You just have to make sure the roots stay where you want them, which is not submerged in any water at all.

HPA doesn’t have any problem with penetrating huge dense rootballs, which is what I end up with every time.

Truly amazing.

dochickory said:

View attachment 4154115

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I get the same type of root mass in a few short weeks, when using a low pressure aero ~ 400 gph pump with hpa mist heads. It blows away any roots I ever got with DWC bubblers

Thought I’d post this picture of Pyramid White Widow Feminised Autoflower she is 32 days old since putting her to bed in Rockwool

dstroy said:

This is one plant in a 4x4, with a 5 gallon bucket root chamber. I’m flowering it right now, it’s a DVG humble pie.

View attachment 4154246

I’ve grown huge plants in 5 gallon buckets. You just have to make sure the roots stay where you want them, which is not submerged in any water at all.

HPA doesn’t have any problem with penetrating huge dense rootballs, which is what I end up with every time.

Click to expand...

She’s beautiful wish I had the room- maybe someday!

What happened to this grow? You must have harvested it by now.

How much did this run end up costing you?

My cost is about $300/mo with around a 2 1/2mo turnaround on average with a nice harvest.

It’s so much cheaper than trying to buy it from the dispensary ($360/oz for meds).

@ZxcStaz

Hi dstroy! It has been hectic since the end of June. The grow was massive. It exceeded expectations and produced huge buds and an exceptional harvest, all of this with only five plants. I have been trimming and drying for the last three weeks. The bud is now going into cure. I’m not sure of the final cost, nor final mass. I’ll have to calculate it when I’m done with the rest of the trimming. But, before I get ahead of myself, here are some pics to explain what I can’t eloquently put into words.

Here is a shot right before harvest.



This is after a lot of trimming.



I had to hang the clipped plants that I couldn’t get to finish. I still have to dry trim them later.



Here is one choice bud that was snagged before I got to clip it…



This is after the drying.



This is what I have so far for yield.



I like to cure and store the bud in pressure cookers. It’s almost hermetically sealed and they are light proof. I had to purchase two more because of the yield. I'll start filling them after I get through with this post.

All in all, I am very pleased with the system. I could not get pictures of the root mass. Atomizer was correct when he said that it would be difficult getting to the roots with this system. In fact, I still can’t get to them. I’ll have to see what is left after the rest of the trimming is dealt with. Concluding this grow, I am pleased with the results. I have gleaned a lot of knowledge, and I lot of bud! There are tweaks that I can implement in future grows.

- ZXC