HLG Scorpion

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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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Doug Dawson said:
I wonder what the difference in performance will be compared to the 600 Rspec? Both the Scorpion and Rspec 600 say 60 to 600 watts. These new designs seem to have more heat sync and spread yet both state good to flower a 5x5. Be interesting to see what the new design does on a practical level, especially since I just bought the Rspec, lol. Oh the joy of technology, there is always a new model coming down the pike.
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In around 4 months (according to Steven) the Scorpion RSpec version will be upgraded to 650 watts. Apparently there is some limitation with the driver they are using with the voltage of the RSpec boards, that they can't deliver over 600watts to the RSpec boards, but they can to the Diablos due to voltage differences. I guess they are in the process of building a new custom driver to put in all of their Scorpion fixtures, so that both the Rspec and Diablo versions will be at 650watts.

Based on the current fixtures, I'd say that the new Scorpion Rspec is around 0.15 μmoles/joule more efficient than the 600R. Not a big difference really. The one advantage to the Scorpion however is if you have height issues, as you can get the Scorp closer to the canopy than the 600R.
 
Doug Dawson

Doug Dawson

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PJ Diaz said:
In around 4 months (according to Steven) the Scorpion RSpec version will be upgraded to 650 watts. Apparently there is some limitation with the driver they are using with the voltage of the RSpec boards, that they can't deliver over 600watts to the RSpec boards, but they can to the Diablos due to voltage differences. I guess they are in the process of building a new custom driver to put in all of their Scorpion fixtures, so that both the Rspec and Diablo versions will be at 650watts.

Based on the current fixtures, I'd say that the new Scorpion Rspec is around 0.15 μmoles/joule more efficient than the 600R. Not a big difference really. The one advantage to the Scorpion however is if you have height issues, as you can get the Scorp closer to the canopy than the 600R.
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Thanks for your reply. I know they just changed their drivers as I just got my Rspec a week ago and it has a new Inventronics driver instead of a Meanwell driver. According to HLG the new drivers have a much lower failure/problem rate than the Meanwells. I guess time will tell just how well they perform but everything I read say they are great drives. As long as the plants are happy so I am.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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Boatguy said:
Not to be a doubter, but timbers cypress looks like some competition
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That light does look pretty good, however I think the Scorp Rspec beats it. That Timber light appears to be only white diodes, and is a bit less efficient than the Scorp Rspec because it has close to 600 less diodes. Also if you look at the PAR map of the timber light, it still has a real bad hotspot in the middle. I haven't seen the par mapping for the Scorpion yet, but the way the boards are spread out, makes it look like it will avoid the typical hotspot in the center f the canopy, which many LED fixtures suffer from.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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PJ Diaz said:
That light does look pretty good, however I think the Scorp Rspec beats it. That Timber light appears to be only white diodes, and is a bit less efficient than the Scorp Rspec because it has close to 600 less diodes. Also if you look at the PAR map of the timber light, it still has a real bad hotspot in the middle. I haven't seen the par mapping for the Scorpion yet, but the way the boards are spread out, makes it look like it will avoid the typical hotspot in the center f the canopy, which many LED fixtures suffer from.
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I have two of the 648's going in a 2x2 at 75w per. Seems to be pretty effective. No doubt the supersized fixture run gently would be kickass.
As far as the timber cypress. Not really sure how a strip build like that can have such a hotspot, Maybe strips arent the superstar everyone claims they are.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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Boatguy said:
I have two of the 648's going in a 2x2 at 75w per. Seems to be pretty effective. No doubt the supersized fixture run gently would be kickass.
As far as the timber cypress. Not really sure how a strip build like that can have such a hotspot, Maybe strips arent the superstar everyone claims they are.
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Here's the PAR map I saw @ 12" from Timber's site:

 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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Boatguy said:
You would think that spacing changes could fix that
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I think the issue will always be the same with bar lighting, in that the overlapping light from the diodes in the middle of the bars will create some hot spots, even if you space out the bars themselves differently. To really do it right, you'd need to space out the diodes on the bars differently, and also space out the bars themselves differently.

Honestly when I first saw the Scorpion I was a bit disappointed because it just looked like more QB's to me, not a rack light. But when I considered it more, I realized that this design is likely a lot better for spread, and the frame looks solid and well built.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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PJ Diaz said:
I think the issue will always be the same with bar lighting, in that the overlapping light from the diodes in the middle of the bars will create some hot spots, even if you space out the bars themselves differently. To really do it right, you'd need to space out the diodes on the bars differently, and also space out the bars themselves differently.

Honestly when I first saw the Scorpion I was a bit disappointed because it just looked like more QB's to me, not a rack light. But when I considered it more, I realized that this design is likely a lot better for spread, and the frame looks solid and well built.
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All argument aside, hlgs par map will be from twice the distance.
 
B

Blazin Budz

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I don't know why it would, when they specifically state it's intended to be run at 12" from the canopy in the listing:
View attachment 4696933
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I don't know why they say that and the info all over the internet says to keep LED's 12-18" away but my 320W XL QB V2 R SPEC's will roast my plants at 12 inches and highly stress them at 18 inches. Even if you look at the HLG grows on the GML podcasts, the company themselves run their boards a solid 36 inches above the canopy and never adjust them.

I've been meaning the make a thread discussing this.
 
A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
Blazin Budz said:
I don't know why they say that and the info all over the internet says to keep LED's 12-18" away but my 320W XL QB V2 R SPEC's will roast my plants at 12 inches and highly stress them at 18 inches. Even if you look at the HLG grows on the GML podcasts, the company themselves run their boards a solid 36 inches above the canopy and never adjust them.

I've been meaning the make a thread discussing this.
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I had one of the V1 320xl and I think that light design is not thought out all that well,the boards are way too close together. This light actually turned me off of led for a while til I realized I was just using it wrong. I'm gonna try some led again after I finish my rooms and have time to take care of a test tent to try one in.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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Blazin Budz said:
I don't know why they say that and the info all over the internet says to keep LED's 12-18" away but my 320W XL QB V2 R SPEC's will roast my plants at 12 inches and highly stress them at 18 inches. Even if you look at the HLG grows on the GML podcasts, the company themselves run their boards a solid 36 inches above the canopy and never adjust them.

I've been meaning the make a thread discussing this.
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I had that problem with a single board run at full power. Adding another i can run very close and not burn.
Was used to running cobs farther and stronger before... learning curve
 
B

Blazin Budz

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
I had that problem with a single board run at full power. Adding another i can run very close and not burn.
Was used to running cobs farther and stronger before... learning curve
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Agreed, there is definitely a learning curve with these high powered LED's. Are you saying you added another board and dimmed them both to run them close to the canopy?

I run them very high right now. just bought some light rails. going to see how they work out with a little movement.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Blazin Budz said:
I don't know why they say that and the info all over the internet says to keep LED's 12-18" away but my 320W XL QB V2 R SPEC's will roast my plants at 12 inches and highly stress them at 18 inches. Even if you look at the HLG grows on the GML podcasts, the company themselves run their boards a solid 36 inches above the canopy and never adjust them.

I've been meaning the make a thread discussing this.
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Yeah, for that board you're right, but the Scorpion has more diodes per watt, so it's less intense with a better spread for the same wattage compared to a 600R. If you listen to the most recent GLM show you will hear that specifically mentioned.

Not all HLG lights are the same. I run QB96's and they definitely need to be run further away from the canopy compared to QB288's run at the same wattage.
 
Barristan Whitebeard

Barristan Whitebeard

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PJ Diaz said:
That light does look pretty good, however I think the Scorp Rspec beats it. That Timber light appears to be only white diodes, and is a bit less efficient than the Scorp Rspec because it has close to 600 less diodes. Also if you look at the PAR map of the timber light, it still has a real bad hotspot in the middle. I haven't seen the par mapping for the Scorpion yet, but the way the boards are spread out, makes it look like it will avoid the typical hotspot in the center f the canopy, which many LED fixtures suffer from.
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Close to 600 less diodes on the Cypress than on the Scorpion Rspec, and those diodes are LM561C. Those LM561C are being driven at about .6 watts per diode at full power, very close to their maximum recommended wattage. The Cypress is a fair amount less efficient, it looks to have a PPE of about 2.32 μmol/Joule.
 
Barristan Whitebeard

Barristan Whitebeard

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Hello @RainDan , can you share your reasoning for the diode choice and quantity that you decided on for the Cypress fixture? Was it primarily a cost to value decision, or were there supply issues with alternative diodes? Does the LM561C diode have some inherent qualities, spectral or otherwise, that you feel made it the right choice?

By the way, I've always admired the quality of your COB fixtures. I wish you good luck with your new offerings as well.
 
RainDan

RainDan

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Hello,

I appreciate the opportunity to chime in, and thank you for the kind comments. We intentionally selected the LM561C as both a good value and also proven performer with a slightly larger output area and form factor than a 301 style diode (5.6 x 3 mm vs 3 x 3 mm). Additionally, our frame purposefully doubles as a heatsink keeping the lights warm to the touch, not to exceed 130-140°F surface temps. We decided that the small sacrifice in efficiency is arguably still very efficient at 2.3+ µmol/J. We use only white LEDs in 3000K, 3500K or 4000K. The use of red diodes will increase overall fixture PPE but do not deliver - we feel the ability to mix color temps offers the grower more flexibility in overall spectral output as well as placement. Keeping the fixture priced appropriately and still honoring our commitment to hand building custom high end lighting was paramount in our component selection.

Happy to answer any additional questions.

Have a good day.

Thanks,
Dan
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

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jimihendrix1 said:
The Gavita 1700e is 1700 PPF, and is only rated for a 4 x 4. I think they are slightly overrating the foot print of the light.

Gavita says the 1700e is a direct replacement for a 1000w HID in a 4 x 4 area. The Hortilux HPS is the most powerful SE-HID at 1600 PPF. Hortilux was also developed spe4cifically for a 4 x 4 area.
The HLG 650R is 60w-610w, and is 1700 PPF, and $1100.

What am I missing?? 650r is more powerful, and costs less???

One can buy a Gavita for $1300.
Gavita is 645w
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Come on buddy, it's 2020



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HiLUX GRO™ Super HPS Single-Ended Grow Light | Ushio America, Inc.

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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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