"Home made" LED grow lights...

MajorCoco · May 18, 2012

PSUAGRO. said:
^^^ha Major you have some high standards......They look like their flowering quite well for the wattage used......I say bravo/nice pics

Thanks as always PSU

It's hard not to have high standards once you've spent some time looking through grows here on RIU I guess!! I just can't wait to taste these babies however big they turn out...and that probably tells me all I need to know.

FranJan · May 18, 2012

Great looking plants Major, regardless of any hiccups with feeding. I'm not familiar with the strain, but you still got some time to go to see them fatten up and I always find calenders and LEDs don't exactly mix

.

And yeah, a light with high lumens per watts and OK peaks is most likely gonna knock the tits off a panel with perfectly tuned spectrums and crap efficacy/output. CRI though seems to be a good way to compare different LEDs, and even panels, of similar wattages and lumens and also just general quality of the diodes IMHO. If your thinking about white diodes, you gotta start to look at the different phosphors they're using and CRI is going to pop up there. The sad part is they don't make a white phosphor based LED that a plant would like, at least not yet from what I can find. The light would probably look like shit to a human. LOL

Good Luck with the rest of your grow and for making your own lights, growing your own meds, running a journal within site of the enemy, bucking convention, and above all, practicing the lost art of sharing, +rep to you MajorCoco.., (insert Heel Clicking sound here), Sir!

thatsmessedup · May 18, 2012

They look good man... mabey more fertilizer will make em bigger. Its probably in the forum somewhere but what are you using and how much?

jubiare · May 18, 2012

FranJan said:
And yeah, a light with high lumens per watts and OK peaks is most likely gonna knock the tits off a panel with perfectly tuned spectrums and crap efficacy/output.

That is really, really good info, you are right on track; between better spectrum and better efficiency, if you have to choose, it's always best to go with better efficiency.

patrikantonius · May 19, 2012

It is quite a nice grow you have there MajorCoco, keep up the good work.
It is surprizing to see a grow with white LEDs instead of the usual red/blue combo.

I am myself thinking about building my own DIY LED growlight and the above statements seem quite odd. What is the point of having 10x better efficacy if 90% of the light is not absorbed by the plant ? (I am exaggerating the figures, but here you have an idea of what I mean).
The luminous flux (in lumen) is adapted to the capability of the human eye to see the emitted light; thus it is quite irrelevant when comparing grow lights, isn't it ?

Gastanker · May 19, 2012

patrikantonius said:
It is quite a nice grow you have there MajorCoco, keep up the good work.
It is surprizing to see a grow with white LEDs instead of the usual red/blue combo.

I am myself thinking about building my own DIY LED growlight and the above statements seem quite odd. What is the point of having 10x better efficacy if 90% of the light is not absorbed by the plant ? (I am exaggerating the figures, but here you have an idea of what I mean).
The luminous flux (in lumen) is adapted to the capability of the human eye to see the emitted light; thus it is quite irrelevant when comparing grow lights, isn't it ?

Not my place to butt in but no it's not irrelevant. White LEDs put out most all of their light from 400nm - 700nm with higher ends of the spectrum than middle; Most all of the white light emitted by LEDs is PAR light - the stuff plants use:

Compared to blue LED - single spike (ignor the non blue part as that's the one white led in the fixture)

I too am about to make my own LED units. I'm wondering where you got the 85w Bridgelux? I can only find bridgelux arrays going up to 50w but I am finding 100w no name arrays for about the same price as the 50w bridgelux. I have sourced some 100w arrays and 100w drivers as well as some dinky heat syncs. I was wondering if you could shoot me a link to where you got your gear.

Let me know if you want those pics gone Coco.

MajorCoco · May 19, 2012

Gastanker said:
Not my place to butt in but no it's not irrelevant. White LEDs put out most all of their light from 400nm - 700nm with higher ends of the spectrum than middle; Most all of the white light emitted by LEDs is PAR light - the stuff plants use:

Compared to blue LED - single spike (ignor the non blue part as that's the one white led in the fixture)

I too am about to make my own LED units. I'm wondering where you got the 85w Bridgelux? I can only find bridgelux arrays going up to 50w but I am finding 100w no name arrays for about the same price as the 50w bridgelux. I have sourced some 100w arrays and 100w drivers as well as some dinky heat syncs. I was wondering if you could shoot me a link to where you got your gear.

Let me know if you want those pics gone Coco.

Not at all my friend! All great info, and well worth putting up

If you are in the US then you should look at Newark.com. The ones I used are up there for sure...gotta dash now. Beer is calling me...

Gastanker · May 19, 2012

Now I see them. Thank you.

How hot do your heat syncs get?

MajorCoco · May 20, 2012

Gastanker said:
Now I see them. Thank you.

How hot do your heat syncs get?

Very, considering how big they are...I spent an extra $30 on purpose-made heatsinks, and I don't regret it, although you can certainly build your own.
The very top of my 20cm high heatsink stays a constant 40-50C depending on venitilation. That's some serious heat considering the heatsink weighs almost 1kg!!

Heat management is very important if you're going to use these...something to keep in mind.

Gastanker · May 20, 2012

Thanks. I cheaped out and ordered two 6x6 heat syncs each weighing in at 1.5lbs - hope it will me enough. Amazing how hard it is to find decent heat sync for this application. I found several small Chinese ones with a fan but they looked way too small for a 100w array even though they claimed to be made for it. I did find someone using the same heat syncs I ordered and he hasn't had a problem so hopefully they work out.

Blah,the expenses add up fast eh? I tried to calculate out how much a DIY CREE unit would costs and it was nuts.

PSUAGRO. · May 20, 2012

Good efficient white led's have peaked my interest for some time.......problem is flowering performance/ gonna need red supplementation IMO.......
couple guys are testing some units which should show us if they are relevant for our hobby (hilo got a good run going/ Major cocco is running all white(cool/warm led)/i believe puff is buying an apachetech white/red combo soon) it's getting interesting.....

@gastanker ever look at these guys http://www.rapidled.com/heatsinks/ looks like quality to me

patrikantonius · May 20, 2012

I thought that PC GPU/CPU coolers might be an interesting alternative; there are some at all kinds of prices and most high end CPUs have around 100+w TDP.

Gastanker · May 20, 2012

There are CPU coolers that have been semi converted for LED heat syncs. Personally I'm more comfortable with a large enough heatsync that it doesn't require a fan. Might attach one to mine either way but much peace of mind in knowing that if the fan fails the LED doesn't burn up.

ebay version of a converted CPU cooler. Still not large enough IMO for a 100w array - not that I have any experience with LEDs.

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I think Major Coco purchased the best option. They have these which look nice and claim to be for 100w LEDs but the dissipation rate is actually pretty terrible w/o the fan, not sure with the fan.

I already ordered some really heavy ugly rectangular heatsyncs so we'll just have to see how they manage.

Again let me know if you want this gone Major. Not trying to clutter up your journal.

MajorCoco · May 21, 2012

No probs again Gas. It's all helpful. I actually just checked out a mastercooler 812, but as you say..having passive cooling is safer, so the space saved hardly seems worth it.

I do have an update on the grow though, and it isn't good news at all. I've been watching my P deficiency increasing slowly, when I suddenly noticed yesterday that the very top fan and bud leaves on my plant were looking very, very sick. I definitely took my eye off the ball for a week

I think I basically made the rookie error of mistaking Ph lockout with deficiency, and have made things worse. I tried to add a bonemeal tea, which I guess has messed up my ph balance.
So, I flushed her with lots of ph6.5 yesterday. The runoff was up to 7.5 to start with!
I'm now in the horrible position of having to wait to see if the flush helps. Having waterlogged soil for too long could make things worse, so I really think I may have to watch while she suffers. Just the one plant affected so far, but the other two will be flushed later this week.

Here's a photo of the damage. Can anyone confirm that my diagnosis and fix is correct? I'm pretty annoyed with myself for not testing the run-off more regularly...[edit: I've also move the light slightly further away, as the damage appeared worst directly under the light...just in case there was some light burn too?]

Gastanker · May 21, 2012

I'd switch from bonemeal tea to a more soluble source of P like bat guano. Bone meal takes forever to become available and really needs to in the medium right up against the roots.

I would suggest hitting it with a broad range micro like CalMag Plus.

** and I wouldn't worry about pH lockout in soil - much more of a hydro problem as the soil pH is what effects your plants, not the water's pH. Nute lockout due to overfertilizing though... that can be a problem in soil.

MajorCoco · May 21, 2012

Gastanker said:
I'd switch from bonemeal tea to a more soluble source of P like bat guano. Bone meal takes forever to become available and really needs to in the medium right up against the roots.

I would suggest hitting it with a broad range micro like CalMag Plus.

** and I wouldn't worry about pH lockout in soil - much more of a hydro problem as the soil pH is what effects your plants, not the water's pH. Nute lockout due to overfertilizing though... that can be a problem in soil.

Well, as well as the rust spots on the top leaves I also have quite a few purple and some purple/yellow leaves. There's still lots of green, but now some bud leaves are turning purple at the edges I'm thinking it could seriously hit my yield.
Anyway, I'll get some Epsom Salts and try a little of that directly on the leaves, but I really need to give her a few days for the soil to dry before I hit her with more of the wet stuff. Because of the bonemeal "fix" she's been sitting in soggy soil for almost a week now. The fact that the other 2 plants happen to have much better drainage and are both pretty healthy looking is what makes me think that water-logging might have done this...

It's a pretty confusing set of symptoms though...

Gastanker · May 21, 2012

Could have been a salinity lockout in which case the flush will help quite a bit. Out of curiosity, what causes this plant to have poorer drainage than the other two?

Yellowing/purpling late in flower can be very natural. Yellowing = low chlorophyll A and B due to low nitrogen soil levels causing migration of N within the plant. Purple can be due to P lockout from low temps, salinity, pH, high N/K, but can also be genetic. Some strains have higher Chlorophyll C and Caratenoid % both of which are red/brown/purple in color - these show through late in flower as the green of the Chlorophyll A and B diminish via relocation of N.

So it could just be a mg or micro deficiency with the rest being normal. But in no way is this me diagnosing your problem.

MajorCoco · May 21, 2012

Gastanker said:
Could have been a salinity lockout in which case the flush will help quite a bit. Out of curiosity, what causes this plant to have poorer drainage than the other two?

So it could just be a mg or micro deficiency with the rest being normal. But in no way is this me diagnosing your problem.

I have 2 plants in 10l pots, the problem one, and another late starter which I've been ignoring in my journal, but is actually looking pretty perfect health-wise. The healthy one was put in a levington potting mix which seems to be better quality than the other as it drains better, and that plant is basically 100% green and lovely.

The other plant is only in an 7 or 8l container, and so needs to be watered more often...so drainage isn't really an issue there. (although the soil used in the smaller pot was also the poorer quality one I used first, which probably explains why it's showing similar, but more mild problems than the main patient.)

If I take any advice I always know it's at my own risk...a good gardener doesn't blame his tools, or anyone else, when things go wrong!!

PSUAGRO. · May 21, 2012

^^^^Gastanker gave you some great advice...............Is their anyway you can increase your room temps(more cfls)and air circulation??to hasten your medium dry-outs...Good luck

PetFlora · May 21, 2012

While you certainly can't complain, I am confident your next foray will be better. I think the 85w spots aren't helping as much as spreading smaller ~ 5 watt diodes out on a ~ 4" X 10" heat sink, spec'ed to handle the heat. You can buy them predrilled from RapidLED

Although I eat 80% organically, I find organic nutes a RPITA, and pretty much unnecessary. Plants have ability to convert inorganic nutrients just fine: we don't.

Where I started with soil/soilless media, I switched to hydro using either my 21st Century F & D or hpa (without an accumulator). This makes screw up easy to fix on the fly- dump the nutes, flush the roots and start fresh. At most you might lose a couple days.

Thanks to PSUAGRO, I am all up into RapidLED. It provides that DIY part of me with a variety of solderless kits that prevents me from screwing up. FYI their Cree diodes are ~ 5 watt. They said they would update their pages to reflect this missing (yet important) 411/info.

I'm thinking ~ 80% equal amounts of Warm and Neutral Whites + on a separate circuit for flowering <5% Royal Blues + 15% 660-740. Anybody?

"Home made" LED grow lights...

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