NietzscheKeen
Well-Known Member
Please forgive me for not responding earlier, I've had a horrible "migraine" ALL day. I'd like to respond to your first paragraph now, then I will respond to your later comments.
"Study means to read and decipher as much truth and wisdom as possible from the subject matter.
To meditate upon.
Like squeezing lemonade from lemons.
I also wonder about the miracles,
but I also understand that miracles are miracles because they can't be explained by physical laws.
The power of God is endless and non-tangible.
The arc question is great,
I'm thinking God created animals on different continents,
Kind of like how the bible says that Adam and Eve were
the first man and woman, but then when Cain kills abel
Cain goes to other humans.
Either Adam and Eve were the first Hebrew Individuals.. Or while they were alive God was busy creating others."
I do not know if I can write this and it not come across as arrogant or condescending, that is certainly not my intention. Please keep that in mind while reading.
First, reread your statements. You probably do not realize it, but you are doing exactly what I was talking about. You are getting into apologetics and in doing so, you are ignoring certain biblical statements and adding your own; you are not just interpreting. Allow me to illustrate:
The Bible says in Genesis 6:17 “Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish”. (I am using the New American Standard Version because it is a very literal translation and considered quite liberal by some. Another fact that I find very interesting, nowhere that I can found in the Qur’an does it say that the flood was worldwide. Also, everything includes plants which help us breathe.) This verse is very specific and explicit about destroying EVERYTHING, so it is irrelevant if God created animals on different continents as they would have all been destroyed and would necessarily be rehabitated, not sure if that is the correct word. If they did not have to be brought back to their appropriate continents, then either the Bible is incorrect (was not worldwide flood) or God did not do what he set out to do (kill everything)… I cannot think of any other possibilities. Another thing one must consider if you believe the animals were created on different continents and brought together for 40 at least 40 days is that fact that many of the animals would have a hard time surviving in the middle eastern climate, this would allow for the spread of pathogens to which many organisms had no natural immunity.
My best friend is a pastor and a very good one at that and his response to my question was “Well, [NietzscheKeen], have you ever heard of Pangaea?” He thought continental drift was an adequate explanation, but this would mean the continents drifted the distances they have today in only a few thousand years. I have a relative that actually studies continental drift and is Christian and very intellectually honest and he makes no claims of a new earth or continents drifting at a different speed than purported by mainstream science.
I got a little off track there. My point was supposed to be that you are not allowed to come up with your own answers; you have to go with what the Bible says. Here is my observation. In childhood/Sunday school, the purpose is to reinforce the Bible stories into the child’s mind as true, true, true. Once is it in there and the individual gets older, then the apologetics naturally begins in an effort to reconcile the things that do not make sense. Pay attention the next time you are in church or are reading your Bible, see how many times you do this. You will really have to pay attention, because it is hard to catch, especially if one has been doing it for a while. Above, I have put into bold the statements onto which you have put your own meaning/interpretation using no reference to any other scripture. The Bible says Adam and Eve were the first people and no others were mentioned as being created (although there were other verses that hint that this wasn’t accurate; Word Faith Movement figureheads Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn teach that there WERE indeed people here BEFORE Adam and Eve, but that they were destroyed. They point to some obscure verse in Isaiah, which I cannot recall at this time.)
I will give a bit of one of my old sermons as a prelude to my comment on “physical laws”.
Esther 8:8 “Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king’s name, and seal it with the king’s signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king’s signet ring may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:8 “Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document so that it may not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:12 “Then they approached and spoke before the king about the king’s injunction, “Did you not sign an injunction that any man who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, is to be cast into the lions’ den?” The king replied, “The statement is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”
As mirrored in the scriptures as in science, the laws of physics cannot be changed. Once God puts something into law, he cannot change it. Go ahead and read the chapters in full, do not ever take one verse as proof; they must be used in context. Even if this is not the case, the miracles must be available for physical description i.e. what exactly happened at the molecular level when the water became wine?
Take care to squeeze only lemon juice from lemons, not lemonade as lemonade is made by adding other ingredients to it until it is palatable.
More to come...
"Study means to read and decipher as much truth and wisdom as possible from the subject matter.
To meditate upon.
Like squeezing lemonade from lemons.
I also wonder about the miracles,
but I also understand that miracles are miracles because they can't be explained by physical laws.
The power of God is endless and non-tangible.
The arc question is great,
I'm thinking God created animals on different continents,
Kind of like how the bible says that Adam and Eve were
the first man and woman, but then when Cain kills abel
Cain goes to other humans.
Either Adam and Eve were the first Hebrew Individuals.. Or while they were alive God was busy creating others."
I do not know if I can write this and it not come across as arrogant or condescending, that is certainly not my intention. Please keep that in mind while reading.
First, reread your statements. You probably do not realize it, but you are doing exactly what I was talking about. You are getting into apologetics and in doing so, you are ignoring certain biblical statements and adding your own; you are not just interpreting. Allow me to illustrate:
The Bible says in Genesis 6:17 “Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish”. (I am using the New American Standard Version because it is a very literal translation and considered quite liberal by some. Another fact that I find very interesting, nowhere that I can found in the Qur’an does it say that the flood was worldwide. Also, everything includes plants which help us breathe.) This verse is very specific and explicit about destroying EVERYTHING, so it is irrelevant if God created animals on different continents as they would have all been destroyed and would necessarily be rehabitated, not sure if that is the correct word. If they did not have to be brought back to their appropriate continents, then either the Bible is incorrect (was not worldwide flood) or God did not do what he set out to do (kill everything)… I cannot think of any other possibilities. Another thing one must consider if you believe the animals were created on different continents and brought together for 40 at least 40 days is that fact that many of the animals would have a hard time surviving in the middle eastern climate, this would allow for the spread of pathogens to which many organisms had no natural immunity.
My best friend is a pastor and a very good one at that and his response to my question was “Well, [NietzscheKeen], have you ever heard of Pangaea?” He thought continental drift was an adequate explanation, but this would mean the continents drifted the distances they have today in only a few thousand years. I have a relative that actually studies continental drift and is Christian and very intellectually honest and he makes no claims of a new earth or continents drifting at a different speed than purported by mainstream science.
I got a little off track there. My point was supposed to be that you are not allowed to come up with your own answers; you have to go with what the Bible says. Here is my observation. In childhood/Sunday school, the purpose is to reinforce the Bible stories into the child’s mind as true, true, true. Once is it in there and the individual gets older, then the apologetics naturally begins in an effort to reconcile the things that do not make sense. Pay attention the next time you are in church or are reading your Bible, see how many times you do this. You will really have to pay attention, because it is hard to catch, especially if one has been doing it for a while. Above, I have put into bold the statements onto which you have put your own meaning/interpretation using no reference to any other scripture. The Bible says Adam and Eve were the first people and no others were mentioned as being created (although there were other verses that hint that this wasn’t accurate; Word Faith Movement figureheads Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn teach that there WERE indeed people here BEFORE Adam and Eve, but that they were destroyed. They point to some obscure verse in Isaiah, which I cannot recall at this time.)
I will give a bit of one of my old sermons as a prelude to my comment on “physical laws”.
Esther 8:8 “Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king’s name, and seal it with the king’s signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king’s signet ring may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:8 “Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document so that it may not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:12 “Then they approached and spoke before the king about the king’s injunction, “Did you not sign an injunction that any man who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, is to be cast into the lions’ den?” The king replied, “The statement is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”
As mirrored in the scriptures as in science, the laws of physics cannot be changed. Once God puts something into law, he cannot change it. Go ahead and read the chapters in full, do not ever take one verse as proof; they must be used in context. Even if this is not the case, the miracles must be available for physical description i.e. what exactly happened at the molecular level when the water became wine?
Take care to squeeze only lemon juice from lemons, not lemonade as lemonade is made by adding other ingredients to it until it is palatable.
More to come...