How easily should roots break away and is it normal for some to die?

So I recently just switched from hand-watered coco to DWC. I'm using Coleman coolers with holes drilled out in the lids.

Temps are not really an issue. I had the smallest light leak around where my air hoses come in but that has since been plugged.

I'm using only FloraNova and Roots Excelurator with Toronto tap water (100ppm starting).

Some plants are more affected than others. I've never grown in DWC before (or any kind of hydro) so I'm not sure what to expect but my gut tells me something isn't right. The roots feel a bit mushy and not like bean sprouts (except the really white, fresh roots). The browner, more slimier roots (only faintly slimy) seem to pull away easy but the plants look healthy on top. I've started applying h202 (27%) at about 1.5ml per gallon every few days but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The res itself has a very, very faint pond smell. I'm not being overrun by "slime" but at the same time I don't think things are right. This isn't a RDWC. Each cooler is independent and I clear the res with a submersible pump followed by a shop vaccing to get what is left. Changing res every 7 days.

Res temp fluctuates between 60-70f. Aeration exceeds 1 watt per gallon with airstones. PH is also stable. I started out in coco and transferred the coco root ball into hydrocorn (thoroughly washed first) so there are actual fleks of coco in there causing some discoloration but there is also a slimy/mushy feeling to the browner roots and they pull away very easy. I know Floranova is supposted to stain roots a tan colour.

I am thinking this could be brown algae (cyanobacteria). I bought some physan 20 off ebay just in case as this seems to be the only thing that consistently wors for that and am going to get to work brewing a benny tea today to fight off any bad bacteria that might be in there.

See pics below. I've slowly been phasing in this DWC system over a few weeks as my hand-watered coco crops have finished up. All systems appear to be effected. Some plants all have much poorer root mass despite receiving identical treatment. I'm growing from seed so different genetics but same strain.

Blargh. Any help appreciated. And I thought DWC was going to be easy as long as I kept my temps low. Guess I have some fine tuning to do.

I'd add that no air stones or airlines have a slimy feeling to them. The walls of the res also do not have a slime feeling. The closest thing to that is a bit of discolouration at the water line but I think that is just nute residue from the floranova as the water level has dropped.

UPDATE: Pics in post #4.

got any pics

I will post some in the AM. My gut tells me something isn't right but I haven't quite figured out the source of problem if one does indeed exist.

Each pic is from a different cooler. The middle pic is from a batch that is a few weeks ahead of the 1st and 3rd pics
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Hard to say but imo they dont look great but not terrible. But that res scared the shit out of me. It takes a lot of something to make a res that dark.

That's just the colour of the floranova. I have one crop that I just started that is using the Lucas formula instead and I'm thinking I am going to stick with that. Roots look significantly whiter and it just makes it easier to tell what's going on cause the nutes aren't so dark.

I think I will switch all RES's to Lucas at the next change. 2 are running super dark flora nova and one is running Lucas ATM.

Now that I think of it, what nute regime do you use superstoner?

One of the lessons from this, at least for me, is stick to nutes that do very little staining. Makes it easy to diagnose whether something is wrong.

The floranova is sludgy and dark...looks and acts a lot like black strap molasses.

I use botanicare pure blend pro line and additives. I have a great recipe in my thread, my 3 stages of flower. Very healthy and big roots.

I know what you are talking about,mine has me like that,it's not bad enough yet to be sure it's a problem.
Mine smells bad,some days,then some days nothing.
I use GH the lucas formula just trying it this running have been running by manfu suggest price
I'm just running 2 buckets right now when this started I added rapid start it turned my roots white
I'll use R/S all the time now when I say the roots exploded that's what mine did.
I had roots coming out the side of the rockwool,they were everywhere.
SS told me before what nutes he runs but I don't remember.
Good Luck


Edit: Hey SS it took me so long to type this you had posted. Have a good day.

Hey gliese,if you don't know SS he knows what he is doing,check out his thread he helps a lot of people.

I used FloraNova in DWC and it sucked. Much the same problems. Excelurator has been known to trigger slime also, if you read the slime sticky. I wouldn't use pure blend pro in DWC either, because it contains organics if I'm not mistaken.

Let us know if the sterilizers get rid of the slime.

Malevolence said:

I used FloraNova in DWC and it sucked. Much the same problems. Excelurator has been known to trigger slime also, if you read the slime sticky. I wouldn't use pure blend pro in DWC either, because it contains organics if I'm not mistaken.

Let us know if the sterilizers get rid of the slime.

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So what nute regime did you end up settling on? I am inclined to use no nutes with an organic component after this experience.

I'm running another res with just the Lucas Formula (no Excelurator either) and things look better than in the Floranova resevoirs. All white roots. They've only been in there for 3 days though so we will see if the same symptoms appear in time but my gut tells me this isn't going to happen.

I have a strong feeling that my problem is the Floranova/Roots excelurator like you've suggested. I am going to make sure to use all chem nutes moving forward. Changing the Floranova Resevoirs to Lucas Formula tonight so we will see if this improves things.

I will let you guys know what happens after I apply Physan and start regular Heisenberg teas to the plants that have been effected by whatever it is I'm dealing with. I also bought some Dutch Master zone as well. I think I will do one res with beneficials (i.e. tea) and attempt a sterile grow in the other res with Zone. This should give me a feel for what works route I want to go.

superstoner1 said:

I use botanicare pure blend pro line and additives. I have a great recipe in my thread, my 3 stages of flower. Very healthy and big roots.

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Going to check this regimen out. I am hoping to experiment with a few different options over the next few months and see what works best.

Thanks!

Just to say, i have never had a rot or root issue in my dwc buckets and they are pretty much treated like red headed step children. I let the water level go down to 1-1/2-2 gallons over 2+ weeks without adding or really checking that much. And i do nothing to control temps other than environment. I do them to fill space in my aero room and they get the worst of the light and not a lot of attention but i still can count on a couple extra ounces from each from using dead space.

Hey guys I'm kind of in the same dilemma I'm on week 3 of veg ( looking to flower ) My plants are about 13in tall I've got a 1000w 4v4 tent with 2 6in 400 cfm fans my roots just dont look great to me but the tops look fine , my temps range from 75-85 right now and my res temps range from 60-77, I'm using 3 part jungle juice my pp is about 860 right now and my ph is about 5.5

I know my temps are a bit to hot, i plan on getting a window ac in about 1 week but what i was wondering how do the plants/roots look to you guys and do you think it's safe to start the flowering now aslong as i get a window ac in a week?



Also one of the plants have some funny leave at the top they look 1/2 size anyone know what that might be?

ah crap, I have a boatload of floranova samples I wanted to use,

I use H&G and get great roots with the excel, never had any slime problems,

You switched em out of coco? Was there still coco material all up in the roots? Organic matter floating in water will decompose. 35% h202 works well.

superstoner1 said:

Just to say, i have never had a rot or root issue in my dwc buckets and they are pretty much treated like red headed step children. I let the water level go down to 1-1/2-2 gallons over 2+ weeks without adding or really checking that much. And i do nothing to control temps other than environment. I do them to fill space in my aero room and they get the worst of the light and not a lot of attention but i still can count on a couple extra ounces from each from using dead space.

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I have never used Pure Blend Pro and honestly just repeating advice from Heisenberg's thread. It is generally well-accepted to not use "organic" nutes and additives in DWC. He says in slimed systems, or systems prone to slime, it is best to stick with synthetic nutes and use bennies. Once your shit is taken care of and under control, you can start experimenting with one or two buckets in a much safer and more controlled method.

I'm sure in clean systems with big healthy roots and happy bennies, pure blend pro is great. Maybe he can use it and be fine, but I would be scared to add something with "organics" in a system already slimed. This includes enzymes like hygrozyme, pondzyme, etc. which will feed the pathogens.

gliese581g said:

So what nute regime did you end up settling on? I am inclined to use no nutes with an organic component after this experience.

I'm running another res with just the Lucas Formula (no Excelurator either) and things look better than in the Floranova resevoirs. All white roots. They've only been in there for 3 days though so we will see if the same symptoms appear in time but my gut tells me this isn't going to happen.

I have a strong feeling that my problem is the Floranova/Roots excelurator like you've suggested. I am going to make sure to use all chem nutes moving forward. Changing the Floranova Resevoirs to Lucas Formula tonight so we will see if this improves things.

I will let you guys know what happens after I apply Physan and start regular Heisenberg teas to the plants that have been effected by whatever it is I'm dealing with. I also bought some Dutch Master zone as well. I think I will do one res with beneficials (i.e. tea) and attempt a sterile grow in the other res with Zone. This should give me a feel for what works route I want to go.

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That's a good idea to try zone and bennies and compare results. I like Dyna-Gro because it is one-part, cheap, clean, ph stable, and has all micro-nutes required. All the things FloraNova is, except for me, FloraNova made my roots muddy. Honestly it was probably because I used too much, but I am not a fan regardless when there are other nutes that are just as good. I have used (in veg) the GH 3-part Flora series and it gives excellent results; nice and clean synthetic nutes. But, you are mixing 3 parts instead of just one. This is good if you want more control, bad if you want simplicity and less work... so that depends on your needs.

No doubt some people won't like this, but stay away from AN products until the slime is controlled. Many AN additives are known triggers of slime in DWC, especially their bennies which is ironic and funny (I forget if it's tarantual or voodoo juice, but they use anaerobic bennies).

If you skim Heisenberg's thread and just read his posts, you will learn a lot of good shit about the root zone and bennies, specifically targeting DWC. He even has a simple/effective cloner setup that uses bennies and provides housing for them in the middle of the thread. If anyone doubts the effectiveness of that tea, look in that thread because the man grows dank in 75* water with light shining in his res clear as day.

Viseverca said:

Hey guys I'm kind of in the same dilemma I'm on week 3 of veg ( looking to flower ) My plants are about 13in tall I've got a 1000w 4v4 tent with 2 6in 400 cfm fans my roots just dont look great to me but the tops look fine , my temps range from 75-85 right now and my res temps range from 60-77, I'm using 3 part jungle juice my pp is about 860 right now and my ph is about 5.5

I know my temps are a bit to hot, i plan on getting a window ac in about 1 week but what i was wondering how do the plants/roots look to you guys and do you think it's safe to start the flowering now aslong as i get a window ac in a week?
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Also one of the plants have some funny leave at the top they look 1/2 size anyone know what that might be?

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Your third pic with the dark clump is exactly what I'm experiencing. The area with the brown kind of smells like a shoe and the FloraNova res water had a faint pond smell. But I never had slime per se. Just browning root clumps that smell a bit. I'm 99% positive it was the Floranova. The plants in the resevoir that has only been exposed to the Lucas Formula (pure chem nutes) do not look like this. The roots are white, feel like bean sprouts and do not have any kind of odour. Figure out if you have nutes with an organic component and get rid of them.

The Floranova resevoirs were changed to Lucas last night so we will see if things improve in the next few days. Like you, my tops look fine but it's clear the roots aren't happy and that is going to catch up with us at some point. Probably reduced yield I imagine.

Applying 27% H202 for now, but I plan on switching to a Heisenberg tea regimen starting on Tuesday. Ordered some Mycogrow from Fungi.com as Heisenberg recommended and paid up the ass for the quickest shipping option to Canada. Should be here Monday morning and will start the brew immediately.

The worst part of this all is I NEVER planned to use Floranova in the first place. I had already bought Lucas nutes but the hydro store tried to tell me Floranova was a bit better, would be easier because only one bottle and that it worked well in DWC. What a crock of shit.