How long is too long (soil question)

GreenBean 420

GreenBean 420

Well-Known Member
How long is too long to let the soil go dry?
Being as how I'm new I always let the soil get decently dry before a full watering or full feeding each time. I don't do small waterings because I'm afraid to go down that route and I've had pretty good success with this so far...
I use a heavy perlite/vermiculite/soilless mix in with my soil so the knuckle test doesn't work much for me. I usually have to go 5in down to "test" the soil moisture.
-5gal pots
Now, if my soil is dry and I wait another 24 hours to fully water again is that detrimental in any way (I start the 4th week of flowering this wed).
Pretty much my question is...if the leaves look fine and don't show signs of underwatering or thirsting, am I damaging the roots in any way by waiting to water?
I don't do it often but just for future reference
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
If the plants wilt from lack of moisture. It will hurt the longer that happens!

Soil works better when it does not exactly "dry out". Same for soilless.

Do the weight method. Water them. Pick them up. Feel the weight!
Now let them dry till a finger in the media feels dry when you put it in... Sorry but you gotta do it at least once for this.
Feel dry?
Now pick that up and feel that weight - or lack of it. Remember that, it's your "signal" to water.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Dr who and I differ a bit on this. I agree with letting the pot dry out just short of the plant wilting. If they wilt they will come back when watered but of course this has already begun to damage the roots.

If they are happy they don't need anything yet but you still have to plan ahead so I started checking with a simple probe style moisture meter and wait until the needle points to dry 3/4 the way down the pot. It will feel almost "alarmingly" light.

I also think it's good to get at least 15% -20% runoff to clean out the roots and bring in new oxygen.

Being a dry side kind of grower rather than a wet side one has at least doubled my average yields in the same pots. The roots prefer to search through drier soil is the reason. So you get a more developed and hearty rootball. This can increase quality and has in my garden. I guess it is because of better nutrient uptake.

I believe @Dr. Who waters only the amount the plant will use today and no more in organic soil.

I have wanted to ask if you do it differently in your synthetic fertilizer grows. With runoff maybe?
 
GreenBean 420

GreenBean 420

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dr! I get the techniques. I'm just curious if the plant doesn't "show" signs of being thirsty does that mean my roots are still in the clear. Or can the roots get damaged from being in the dry soil BEFORE the leaves and plant show it? Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
Dr who and I differ a bit on this. I agree with letting the pot dry out just short of the plant wilting. If they wilt they will come back when watered but of course this has already begun to damage the roots.

If they are happy they don't need anything yet but you still have to plan ahead so I started checking with a simple probe style moisture meter and wait until the needle points to dry 3/4 the way down the pot. It will feel almost "alarmingly" light.

I also think it's good to get at least 15% -20% runoff to clean out the roots and bring in new oxygen.

Being a dry side kind of grower rather than a wet side one has at least doubled my average yields in the same pots. The roots prefer to search through drier soil is the reason. So you get a more developed and hearty rootball. This can increase quality and has in my garden. I guess it is because of better nutrient uptake.

I believe @Dr. Who waters only the amount the plant will use today and no more in organic soil.

I have wanted to ask if you do it differently in your synthetic fertilizer grows. With runoff maybe?
Click to expand...
Nope - Same way for synthetic runs.....I have never been a fan of run off.
I hate how soils can shrink up and let water/feed just roll through it if it gets "too dry"..... Products like "Drip Clean" turn your soil into a "brick" and should be avoided.

15-20% run off is simply waste. Watering like that doesn't really bring more to the roots as far as they need by way of O2. Simply watering to a "drop" of run off is plenty enough to bring the roots O2.

I rely on a balance between my Temps - RH and amounts I feed per pot on a daily basis to build my rootballs....
As far as cleaning away any "build up". I don't feed enough for it to build up. I do feed to a minor "push" too.

This is just a simple friendly reply to yours, as to what I do vs. and why.
 
bobtokes

bobtokes

Well-Known Member
also, if your using chemical ferts and you let the pots dry out completly you will get salt build up if the plant has'nt used up all the nutes you watered with, that will happen in any media
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Nope - Same way for synthetic runs.....I have never been a fan of run off.
I hate how soils can shrink up and let water/feed just roll through it if it gets "too dry"..... Products like "Drip Clean" turn your soil into a "brick" and should be avoided.

15-20% run off is simply waste. Watering like that doesn't really bring more to the roots as far as they need by way of O2. Simply watering to a "drop" of run off is plenty enough to bring the roots O2.

I rely on a balance between my Temps - RH and amounts I feed per pot on a daily basis to build my rootballs....
As far as cleaning away any "build up". I don't feed enough for it to build up. I do feed to a minor "push" too.

This is just a simple friendly reply to yours, as to what I do vs. and why.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

The only thing I will say here is if one is using bottled or powdered nutrients that the runoff is very much necessary.

You can't feed the perfect amount as the plant will take only some of what we add. Then what is left over is in an unbalanced ratio. These are the salts that will build up over time.

About soils becoming hydrophobic. A simple cultivating or roughing up the top half inch with a fork or fingers ( I use the prongs of a soil meter.)
Will eliminate that problem.

I have been averaging 5 oz dry top shelf nugs in a #3 nursery pots. Actual pot volume is 2.5 gallons. So 2oz per gallon of soil mix from seed mostly.

When I keep the soil moist. Or water with no runoff or use any additives my yield and quality go down in my room.

But I do keep experimenting.
:-)
 
ҖҗlegilizeitҗҖ

ҖҗlegilizeitҗҖ

Well-Known Member
Usually it seems to take 3 or 4 days to dry, you can try lifting the pot if you can to see how heavy it is, or stick your finger her into the soil about an inch, if it's still moist your good.
Imo if the plant is drooping, it's been a little too long since the last watering. But I don't think it will hurt. I usually try to hold off on water right up to the point before it starts stopping
 
GreenBean 420

GreenBean 420

Well-Known Member
They're still happy but the soil is almost completely dry I'm pretty sure. I wanted to wait to do a full watering tonight when I had time to garden. I water till runoff always and check my runoff ph usually once a week just to know. I'm a mix of organic and chemical. So, not organic haha. My roots are extremely extremely white and from the bottom of the bucket all the way to the top 2in of the soil. I have to be careful sticking my hands in there to not mess with them lol. I agree with the letting the plants get reasonably dry between watering/feeding. I've been going that route for 2 months now and the plants haven't drooped once. They seem very happy ha.
Thanks so much for the info you guys have all been awesome!
 

Attachments

chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
why not stick a finger into the bottom hole of the container to see if its wet there since the top is the first to dry out and not very indicative of the bottom moisture content? plus you get to stick your finger in yet another hole.

when I go away for extended periods I water to run off each bucket regardless of water weight inside otherwise I have a very keen sense of how much water it takes to produce a little run off
 
GreenBean 420

GreenBean 420

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
why not stick a finger into the bottom hole of the container to see if its wet there since the top is the first to dry out and not very indicative of the bottom moisture content? plus you get to stick your finger in yet another hole.

when I go away for extended periods I water to run off each bucket regardless of water weight inside otherwise I have a very keen sense of how much water it takes to produce a little run off
Click to expand...
Yes I like that. I shall give it a go!!!
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
GreenBean 420 said:
They're still happy but the soil is almost completely dry I'm pretty sure. I wanted to wait to do a full watering tonight when I had time to garden. I water till runoff always and check my runoff ph usually once a week just to know. I'm a mix of organic and chemical. So, not organic haha. My roots are extremely extremely white and from the bottom of the bucket all the way to the top 2in of the soil. I have to be careful sticking my hands in there to not mess with them lol. I agree with the letting the plants get reasonably dry between watering/feeding. I've been going that route for 2 months now and the plants haven't drooped once. They seem very happy ha.
Thanks so much for the info you guys have all been awesome!
Click to expand...

They look great!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
Thank you.

The only thing I will say here is if one is using bottled or powdered nutrients that the runoff is very much necessary.

You can't feed the perfect amount as the plant will take only some of what we add. Then what is left over is in an unbalanced ratio. These are the salts that will build up over time.

About soils becoming hydrophobic. A simple cultivating or roughing up the top half inch with a fork or fingers ( I use the prongs of a soil meter.)
Will eliminate that problem.

I have been averaging 5 oz dry top shelf nugs in a #3 nursery pots. Actual pot volume is 2.5 gallons. So 2oz per gallon of soil mix from seed mostly.

When I keep the soil moist. Or water with no runoff or use any additives my yield and quality go down in my room.

But I do keep experimenting.
:-)
Click to expand...
Huh, never had a problem with not watering to run off.....when using synthetics before.
I get the same yield ratio's too.....No problems with the soil not taking the watering either.
I find that problems start (for me) when the pot gets so dry that the soil begins to shrink away from the walls..

I know folks who do water to run off (now another one 8-))and others that don't... For the one's at advanced levels. Neither has problems and they yield at the same rates..... I sure won't be doing any MIR as I'm not running dry salts and tupor - :mrgreen: !!

Interesting though....People doing opposing things and getting the same results......Now that's life!
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Huh, never had a problem with not watering to run off.....when using synthetics before.
I get the same yield ratio's too.....No problems with the soil not taking the watering either.
I find that problems start (for me) when the pot gets so dry that the soil begins to shrink away from the walls..

I know folks who do water to run off (now another one 8-))and others that don't... For the one's at advanced levels. Neither has problems and they yield at the same rates..... I sure won't be doing any MIR as I'm not running dry salts and tupor - :mrgreen: !!

Interesting though....People doing opposing things and getting the same results......Now that's life!
Click to expand...

Interesting...... do you think I have more problems with buildup because of the smaller pots?

What size do you prefer for your space? I have been considering going up to 5's lately but honestly wouldn't have room for a larger plant. And they keep growing larger it seems. Lol.

Some of these hybrids are going 12 weeks or a little more in the #3 nursery pots.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
Interesting...... do you think I have more problems with buildup because of the smaller pots?

What size do you prefer for your space? I have been considering going up to 5's lately but honestly wouldn't have room for a larger plant. And they keep growing larger it seems. Lol.

Some of these hybrids are going 12 weeks or a little more in the #3 nursery pots.
Click to expand...

I run 5's and 7's for finals. "I" pick by plant height and length of bloom time. So it's plain that sativa's or long blooming strains get the biggest pots. In organic WO, I have to do that, and still end up doing some teas late....Tallest in house plant at the end is just over 6 ft. (and yes, I make veg boo-boo's on occasion and have to do some supercropping for them to fit under the lights). Average final plant height is more like 5ft and a cpl of odd inch's.

With strains going 12 weeks. I would suggest you at least try some 5's MMG...See what you can do with them. I like running bigger plants for return on #'s.....

I see you run smaller plants but, it's hard to tell just how tall......so how tall do you run too?
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
I run 5's and 7's for finals. "I" pick by plant height and length of bloom time. So it's plain that sativa's or long blooming strains get the biggest pots. In organic WO, I have to do that, and still end up doing some teas late....Tallest in house plant at the end is just over 6 ft. (and yes, I make veg boo-boo's on occasion and have to do some supercropping for them to fit under the lights). Average final plant height is more like 5ft and a cpl of odd inch's.

With strains going 12 weeks. I would suggest you at least try some 5's MMG...See what you can do with them. I like running bigger plants for return on #'s.....

I see you run smaller plants but, it's hard to tell just how tall......so how tall do you run too?
Click to expand...
They are trained to 30" above the 10" tall pots max. For the 600's it's the perfect height. They are not that small. I can fit 6 mature flowers in a 7.5' x 3.5' area. It used to be 8. Lol.

The largest yield was 7.5 oz dense nugs and I am averaging about 5.

I think if I run 6 I could use the 5's.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
They are trained to 30" above the 10" tall pots max. For the 600's it's the perfect height. They are not that small. I can fit 6 mature flowers in a 7.5' x 3.5' area. It used to be 8. Lol.

The largest yield was 7.5 oz dense nugs and I am averaging about 5.

I think if I run 6 I could use the 5's.
Click to expand...
30 inch "plant" is beyond rubbing the height limit for 3's, before the up potting. - In my garden.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
30 inch "plant" is beyond rubbing the height limit for 3's, before the up potting. - In my garden.
Click to expand...
Oh you can bet I have some full root balls stuffed in there. Lol.

And that is final height in flower after bending and Super cropping and such.

About 18" in veg before I bend or top them in there. Otherwise I just train the first 10 days or so of 12/12.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top