How many innocent lives are your guns worth?

st0wandgrow said:

Are you a law abiding gun owner?

If so, how would any of what I proposed negatively affect you? Keep in mind that I have no interest in limiting the types of guns, or how much ammo a law abiding gun owner can have.

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Don't you get it? You keep changing the law on what is law abiding. New York is about to float confiscation legislation. Oh, but it just a reasonable thing. It's not even about Jews.


So, peddle the pretzel logic until you confused everyone. Then you sophists will say, Gee, who would have thought we'd end up in a locked down police state. We aren't even allow to admit it or we show up on the Minority Report.

Can you think of consequences? Our Founders already did.

Flaming Pie said:

I was in Oklahoma when the bombing happened. Our family friend called in sick that day, and a person sitting at her desk got a face full of glass from the explosion. Home made bomb.

If Adam Lanza hadn't had access to a gun, he could of made a few explosives and done way more damage. Or a gas released through the AC of the building could of wiped everyone out. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.




If people want to kill, they will find a way to make it happen.

"Within moments, the surrounding area looked like a war zone. A third of the building had been reduced to rubble, with many floors flattened like pancakes. Dozens of cars were incinerated and more than 300 nearby buildings were damaged or destroyed.

The human toll was still more devastating: 168 souls lost, including 19 children, with several hundred more injured."

~ FBI website http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/oklahoma-city-bombing

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But he didn't do it that way did he, if he had wanted to kill even more, then he would have done it as you say. He did itthe easiest way he knew how and we make it easy.


All sorts of laws were proposed limiting the purchase of ammonium nitrate in large quantities, I didn't see any farmers protesting their "right" to purchase this stuff in any quantity they wish.

echelon1k1 said:

Sorry bro, but the FBI's track record with agent provocateurs, informants, double agents & assets is dubious to say the least... They couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.

They have a history to giving real bombs to terror suspects, whitewashing OPR investigations, fucking up surveillance, getting played by foreign intelligence operatives, dropping the ball again and again not to mention totally goat fucking active assets/informants and investigations.

The only thing the FBI does well is covering their own asses. Hoovers legacy still cripples the bureau to this day and things don't look like geting better...

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What does any of that have to do with my post?

My post was about slaughter without use of a gun.

canndo said:

But he didn't do it that way did he, if he had wanted to kill even more, then he would have done it as you say. He did itthe easiest way he knew how and we make it easy.


All sorts of laws were proposed limiting the purchase of ammonium nitrate in large quantities, I didn't see any farmers protesting their "right" to purchase this stuff in any quantity they wish.

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I agree that he went with the easy available way.

No amount of laws would of stopped him from doing what he did tho. Even if his mother was subject to the measures you want put in place, her insane son would of still killed those children.

The president himself said that "no law will stop the rare individual from committing evil acts"

You know what? The 2nd A is priceless and it costs the country very little. It has the same death rate as auto transportation. But, even that is not the story. 35K base gun deaths per year. OK?

How many of those are accidental? That is a car comparison.
How many from drinking? Compare with cars.

How many times does a gun save lives? Cars?
How much murder with guns vs saves?

See, if you weed out murder, you can compare strictly with cars. Very few intentional murders with cars. You get mouse nuts, practically nothing. Cars are much worse for accidental death than guns.

Then you can break down murders into how many would be murdered, iac, regardless of weapon.

Here you anti-nuts are fucked. You act like kids are getting murdered with guns right and left when actually they are getting killed on the roads. Distracted and drunk drivers.

And we add it all up. Death from guns that were not accidents, no alcohol, but outright killing. The outright killing of bad guys dwarfs the outright killing of good guys with guns. It is something like 10:1 bad guys killed.

You simply won't face facts. Guns don't cost us, they save us.

canndo said:

Shut the fuck up? Why? because you don't want to contemplate the reality of what our 2nd Amendment costs us in this country? Or do you want to compare us with some other situation for the same reason?

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You'd like to invoke children to drive home a gun control agenda by pulling at peoples heart strings... Cool story bro...

Let's contemplate the reality of what CRAZY AMERICANS cost the US, not the 2A.

It's fuckwit libtards like you that advocate bans instead of reinforcing individual responsibility. So typical of the libtard welfare worldview, lets protect everyone from themselves...

If you're too retarded to see the difference between an inanimate object and a human being with free will then you aren't even qualified to comment on the subject.

canndo said:

10.1 gun deaths per 100,000 in the U.S. (2009)

11.7 auto related deaths in the U.S. (2009)


Now this would not be an accurate representation for a normal argument EXCEPT that what you said was "by accident or intentionally".

Better update that argument ASMALLVOICE.

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Hate to be a debbie-downer, but that number includes suicides which in 2010 made up 3/5 of all gun related deaths in the US. A further point, homicide rates are at around 4 per 100k.

budlover13 said:

Agreed. The 2nd is there to fight tyranny. Therefore, I should be able to possess what my potential tyrants possess.

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So what weapons will you need against DOW and Monsanto, AIG and BofA?

Oh, I forgot, the only tyranny you believe exists is the one where you have a vote, the guys running the show change up ever couple of years.

Flaming Pie said:

What does any of that have to do with my post?

My post was about slaughter without use of a gun.

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the FBI account of that day is lacking to say the least... Ammonium nitrate please... Do you know how much would've been needed? Shitload more that the ryder truck held...

merkzilla said:

Hate to be a debbie-downer, but that number includes suicides which in 2010 made up 3/5 of all gun related deaths in the US. A further point, homicide rates are at around 4 per 100k.

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Did you read my whole post which included these words -

• Now this would not be an accurate representation for a normal argument EXCEPT that what you said was "by accident or intentionally".
  
  Better update that argument ASMALLVOICE.
  
  
  
  ​
  
  
  
  

I like accuracy.

canndo said:

If you knew for certain that surrendering your firearm would keep a given number of children from being shot, what would that number be?

How many children is your right to keep and bear worth to you?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euMuCRx7qhA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

3

no wait 4

well, 3

echelon1k1 said:

You'd like to invoke children to drive home a gun control agenda by pulling at peoples heart strings... Cool story bro...

Let's contemplate the reality of what CRAZY AMERICANS cost the US, not the 2A.

It's fuckwit libtards like you that advocate bans instead of reinforcing individual responsibility. So typical of the libtard welfare worldview, lets protect everyone from themselves...

If you're too retarded to see the difference between an inanimate object and a human being with free will then you aren't even qualified to comment on the subject.

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Really? THAT's what I do? and "we are leaving this legacy of debt to our children and children's children". No heart strings being pulled there when another agenda is put forth.

Nope. I asked a simple question, no emotion at all and only one or two actually gave me a reasonable answer but I don't think you read my response to him.

Nowhere have you seen me advocate a ban on anything - I asked about regulating semi-automatic weapons and contemplate large magazine limits but you can't take this into a civil conversation nor can you quite adjust to anything but the same long, inapplicable talking points that have already given the rabid gun folks such a black eye of late.

So make me a libtard, make me a retard stray from reality here for a moment and tell me exactly how you are going to get to that never never land of enforced personal responsibliy - love to hear it, love to discover your way of having a non-intrusive Federal government, a smaller, less tyrannical government "reinforce" individual responsibility"

I'm reading, clue this libtard in.

canndo said:

Did you read my whole post which included these words -

• Now this would not be an accurate representation for a normal argument EXCEPT that what you said was "by accident or intentionally".
  
  Better update that argument ASMALLVOICE.
  
  
  
  ​
  
  

I like accuracy.

Click to expand...

Hate to be a debbie-downer again, but I was just elaborating on the numbers. If 2010 held true against 2009 numbers, 4.04 per 100k would be gun deaths not attributed to suicides, far below the automobile deaths.

Flaming Pie said:

I was in Oklahoma when the bombing happened. Our family friend called in sick that day, and a person sitting at her desk got a face full of glass from the explosion. Home made bomb.

If Adam Lanza hadn't had access to a gun, he could of made a few explosives and done way more damage. Or a gas released through the AC of the building could of wiped everyone out. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.

If people want to kill, they will find a way to make it happen.

"Within moments, the surrounding area looked like a war zone. A third of the building had been reduced to rubble, with many floors flattened like pancakes. Dozens of cars were incinerated and more than 300 nearby buildings were damaged or destroyed.

The human toll was still more devastating: 168 souls lost, including 19 children, with several hundred more injured."

~ FBI website http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/oklahoma-city-bombing

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exactly what i was going to argue that if he hadnt had access to a gun it would have been google search home made pipebombassemble

canndo said:

Really? THAT's what I do? and "we are leaving this legacy of debt to our children and children's children". No heart strings being pulled there when another agenda is put forth.

Nope. I asked a simple question, no emotion at all and only one or two actually gave me a reasonable answer but I don't think you read my response to him.

Nowhere have you seen me advocate a ban on anything - I asked about regulating semi-automatic weapons and contemplate large magazine limits but you can't take this into a civil conversation nor can you quite adjust to anything but the same long, inapplicable talking points that have already given the rabid gun folks such a black eye of late.

So make me a libtard, make me a retard stray from reality here for a moment and tell me exactly how you are going to get to that never never land of enforced personal responsibliy - love to hear it, love to discover your way of having a non-intrusive Federal government, a smaller, less tyrannical government "reinforce" individual responsibility"

I'm reading, clue this libtard in.

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You can't enforce individual responsibility, not with pass the buck Barack in the white house. Your leaders can't even lead by example.

Go back and read you OP... No heart strings aye... Maybe work out what your view is then try and articulate it because you're all over the shop.

If you knew for certain that surrendering your firearm would keep a given number of children from being shot, what would that number be?

How many children is your right to keep and bear worth to you?

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Do you guys know the hoops you have to jump through to buy any significant amount of fertilizer anymore? It is ridiculous...

merkzilla said:

Hate to be a debbie-downer again, but I was just elaborating on the numbers. If 2010 held true against 2009 numbers, 4.04 per 100k would be gun deaths not attributed to suicides, far below the automobile deaths.

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I saw that you were. My point was that if the poster was going to make a statement like the one he made he should have left out that accident or intentionally part don't you think? So long as that is in there, my numbers are accurate and meaningful and his are not.

canndo said:

I saw that you were. My point was that if the poster was going to make a statement like the one he made he should have left out that accident or intentionally part don't you think? So long as that is in there, my numbers are accurate and meaningful and his are not.

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Why dont we compare accidental car deaths to accidental gun deaths and decide to ban vehicles due to the incredible disparity?

echelon1k1 said:

You can't enforce individual responsibility, not with pass the buck Barack in the white house. Your leaders can't even lead by example.

Go back and read you OP... No heart strings aye... Maybe work out what your view is then try and articulate it because you're all over the shop.

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No, no, you are kidding me right? you blame the president for individual lack of responsibility? You are blaming someone else for people not holding themselves accountable?


Wow - the contortions you folks have to twist yourself into.

So these mass shootings are Obama's fault because he is keeping people from holding themselves responsible for their own actions.


All over the shop? does that mean that maybe this libtard doesn't use the same speaking points you are used to responding to? Does it mean that you might have to adjust your arguments?

You claim that the answer to this problem is not to deal with the intimate objects but to have people be responsible for themselves - now HOW do you propose to do that? Here - I'll give you an edge, let's make an imaginary change since it is Obama that is causing so much of the problem, let's pretend The other guy won.

How you going to establish that personal responsibility now?