How much effort should I put into this, really? First ever grow

So I'm about to start a small op. The space I have is a nice square 4.5ft x 4.5ft x 8ft high closet. I've gridded out the space in squares and concentric rings in 3-inch increments, so I can really get detailed with this design.

I've been reading cannabis cultivation books for a few years now and looking around a little bit online, but I just got medically legal so I have spent a massive amount of time lately researching MH, HPS, CFL, CMH, MHPS, LED, UV, reflectors, fans, filters, ball bearings, electric motors, ducts, movers, hoods, seeds, clones, indoor and outdoor strains and why they're different and et cetera ad infinitum..

I think I want 19 plants rotating around under a central 400w CMH, two 28w LED panels (already purchased, see below) and two 42w CFLs (5k for veg, 3k for flower), and also adding three UVB lights for flower.

THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS! I love doing this kind of shit and could spend literally forever perfecting a theoretical system, but.. on the other hand, I could just toss 36 clones and a 1000w light in there and let it go.

My goal is to produce a quantity of quality (duh). One thing I have decided on is soil. I just don't want to fuck with a hydro system yet.
My water bill and power bills are paid for by my incredibly chill landlord, as long as I don't start getting like $200 power bills. I plan on doing a 4 month cycle (2 veg/2 bud), and right now I'm estimating around 1kwph over 2000 hours, and those are both rounded up. That's about $100 a month, and like I said my landlord is awesome.

I have a 100w 178 CFM fan, which it turns out is awesomely perfect for my 162 cubic ft closet.
Another thing, I've already purchased two 28-watt LED panels- http://shop.sunshine-systems.com/product.sc?productId=10 -at an indoor gardening expo.
Before you say LEDs are a waste of money, I waited until the end of the expo and haggled the guy down to half price for both. I've had a bubba kush test plant growing from seed under one for a month, and it appears to be doing just fine. Above-average amount of internodal growth for its age, and zero stretching.

So what I'm really wondering is whether I should be a straight up playapimp and use alll the information I've gathered, and make a rotating table and get a CMH and set up supplemental lights in all the right spectrums for the seasons and get the most perfect efficient use of space and electricity and all that, or should I just stick hella clones and a 1000w MH/HPS in there?
What I really need is experience.
Thank you in advance!
my theoretical 19 rotating plants in veg:

Edit:
I think now I'm going to go for 10 plants in 5 gallon pots, instead of 19 plants.

Go balls out, you wanna grow good bud or not?

i would not bother with lowryders, i only say that because i have had some bad luck with them, if you want to do something like that have you ever read the 12/12 from seed thread? its well better than lowryders, less electric no need for veg an flower room and you get bud fast, people on there are getting 2+oz a plant in about 12 weeks, have a look mate see what you think, good luck with whatever you decide

i don't really want something like that, i'm planning on 18/6 for a two month veg cycle then going 12/12 for a two month bud cycle. i'm not really interested in speed.. although, now i'm wondering if it's worth the extra month of veg per crop to only get 3 harvests a year instead of 4.

well if you can wait that long have you had a look at screen of green? when i did it what way 2 months veg i was getting 5oz a plant, it would be worth the wait then

What's the point of the CFL's? They are barely adding anything here...

42's would be cool in numbers (multiple per plant) but as an overhead in a reflector above several plants, it might as well not even be there dude.

something else to consider is that 2months veg time will have you with around 4ft tall plants after stretching and 4.5x4.5 aint gonna be enough room for 19plants. A 400w light has approximately 2-3ft of usable light penetration.


J

word, i was wondering how useful those would really be. here's why i put them in though:
the thing with CMH bulbs is they're full spectrum (regular MH is blue, HPS is red) so you can use it for both veg and flower. but then, during flower it doesn't change to become more red, like the sun in fall, and from what people have told me it doesn't give you fatty nugs because of that. so i wanted to supplement the spectrum during flower with 2700 CFLs, and i figured if i've already got the fixtures and reflectors ready i might as well stick some 5100 bulbs in for veg.
do you think i should just drop the CFLs altogether? or would it still be worth adding their red to the spectrum for flower?

and Mr G Row- you just sent me on a journey. im def thinking going scrog now. thank you!

jondamon- my vague plan is to start the veg under the 2 LEDs. Together they make a solid 18inch x 36inch footprint of light, and from what my bubba kush test plant is showing there won't be much stretching at first. eventually though.. hm
I don't want any plants to get much higher than 3 feet at any point. If i do a screen of green method though i have much more control over the height of the plants.
I'm thinking of going less than 19. What diameter pot would you recommend for each plant? For 19 plants I have 9inch wide pots.. if I go 12inch wide pots i can fit 10 plants, but they have more space between them.
Some questions of balance are coming up now.. twice the plants with only 3/4 as much soil? gah so many options

sweetarded said:

word, i was wondering how useful those would really be. here's why i put them in though:
the thing with CMH bulbs is they're full spectrum (regular MH is blue, HPS is red) so you can use it for both veg and flower. but then, during flower it doesn't change to become more red, like the sun in fall, and from what people have told me it doesn't give you fatty nugs because of that. so i wanted to supplement the spectrum during flower with 2700 CFLs, and i figured if i've already got the fixtures and reflectors ready i might as well stick some 5100 bulbs in for veg.
do you think i should just drop the CFLs altogether? or would it still be worth adding their red to the spectrum for flower?

and Mr G Row- you just sent me on a journey. im def thinking going scrog now. thank you!

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no problem, i would only use the cfl's for clones, i would just use MH-veg HPS-flower, that way you will see results,

sweetarded said:

jondamon- my vague plan is to start the veg under the 2 LEDs. Together they make a solid 18inch x 36inch footprint of light, and from what my bubba kush test plant is showing there won't be much stretching. i guess it depends on how many plants I start for how long they'll be under the LEDs.
I don't want any plants to get much higher than 3 feet at any point. If i do a screen of green method though i have much more control over the height of the plants.
I'm thinking of going less than 19. What diameter pot would you recommend for each plant?

Click to expand...

Scrog is probably your best bet with a 3ftx3ft screen, 2 to 4 plants and fill the screen.

The rule of thumb in general is 1gallon of pot for every month of growth.
2 months veg = 2 gallons
2 months flower = 2 gallons
total 4 gallon.


However there are very few strains that finish in 8weeks, most take 9-11weeks to fully ripen depending upon indica/sativa dominance regardless of what breeders say, there timings are given under PERFECT conditions.




J

using MH/HPS would allow me to get a digital ballast..

I'm going with Smartpots or whatever, the fabric pots. 5 gallon is 12 inches, 3 gallon is 10 inches.
12 inch 5 gallon pots would give me enough room for ten plants. Why do you suggest 2-4?
And I hope to make a rotating table 4 feet in diameter, so I'd mount a 48inch net to poles along the outside. Why do you suggest 3x3?

thank you the advice you're giving me is sending me in all the right directions

go big or go home

Grow some dope. Get some experience and then make plans. Reading is never the same as actual experience. There is plenty to learn in just raising a decent MJ crop without having to add complications.

I've found out a lot of information, but I don't have the experience to know how much of it is applicable or which is the best for what situation.
I started this thread to find out if I was overthinking it, but "Grow some dope." is a little bit vaguer than I was hoping for.
It would be cool if I had the means to just do test runs, but before I actually having living things in my room I want to make sure I'm not wasting my money or time, or even not just getting the most out of it. I know it's my first grow, but I'd love for it to be as good as I can possibly make it without prior experience.

400w light has a 3ftx3ft usable light footprint anything outside this area is not going to have enough light. Your rotating table is a cool idea but you would also have to switch plant positions so they all got equal amounts of light.


I said 2-4 if choosing Scrog, it would be pretty hard to water 19plants sitting under a screen, so you have less plants and a longer veg to fill the screen.


or you could do a SOG (sea of green) this would involve having a mother and cloning her to get around 20-30 small plants with a single stem and allow them all to flower which would give you a stick of bud maybe 10-20g per plant X 20plants is 200g-400g .
Get as many as you can into the 3x3 area.



J

Yikes, I would try and flip those led panels on ebay. They won't do what you need them to accomplish. If you want a real led light you're going to have to drop some cash. Check out GLH Spectras, Hydroponics Hut, Advanced LED, or Pro-Source. Those are by far the most reputable, warranty backed led lights on the market. For reference I believe my current set up is equal to the 2 400w hps lights I used to have. I'm currently running 2 180w Pro-Grow, and 1 250w Pro-Grow as top lighting with 1 90w ufo (Chinese crap from Ebay), and 1 100w GLH Spectra as side lighting. That's roughly 800w of chipsets which are probably driven to and pulling around 550-600w of power. In my opinion leds work great but you'll want to make sure you're running quality 3w diodes from a reputable manufacturer that offers warranty. To replace HID you'll need at least 2/3 the wattage you were currently running and those 28w panels use something like 1/10th of a watt diodes (lacks intensity needed to cover sufficiently). Companies that over-exaggerate the coverage claims on their shitty led lights are the main reason people have jumped on the LED hate wagon. Here on the plant earth a quality 90w ufo is probably equivalent to about a 250w hps, maybe a little less than that. They work and work very well, you just need to be prepped to drop some coin on an investment and make sure your investment is backed by a legit warranty. Good luck bro.

I like the scrog much more than the sog, i've read (i know, reading something's not the same) about the ways to train your plants with bending and topping to double the yield, but they're like traditional techniques. it seems like scrog sort of does all those as a natural part of the growth.

do you really drop it to 12/12 after just a couple weeks? i'm reading this: http://www.gardenscure.com/420/scrog-sog-training-techniques/66135-sog-scrog-bible-best-guide-i.html right now and like.. idk. that just seems so crazy! they seriously don't go right into flower?

Hoss, you seem to know a shitload of LED lights. Like a metric shit ton. I was really hoping those LED panels would be useful. Idk, do you think I could use them for clones? Are they worth keeping at all? Or should I definitely try to flip them

my landlord pays and i added a 600hps with a lumatec ballist and it only increased like 20 bucks, just leave the hps on 12/12 and veg under a t5. About lighting dont even think about it, 600 or 1000 watt hps, my ballist I can turn it from 250 to 400 to 600. Get good genetics dont fuck around space queen, sensi star, tangerine dream, og kush