How to build a return pump setup in an ebb and flow table setting

Hi,
I need some advice how to properly drain back the nutrients from the ebb and flow tables into a rain water barell.

I got delivered a reservoir where no pump was needed as it was pretty low. But it got delivered broken and I am not anymore convinced of the quality of this reservoir. Also I think that I should go a bit bigger with the reservoir.

So now I am considering a big rain barell. But I don't now how to set it up that the nutrients get back into the reservoir.

Any advice?

Sounds like a flood system, call Noah he can help.

You have to run it like the ebb n flow bucket systems. A seperate bucket with controller regulates feeding times and height over water levels in the buckets or trays. A pump goes into reservoir and plugs into the controller. A special piece needs to be clipped onto the water line at the reservoir to stop the syphon when controller stops.

How are you collecting the rain water? Gutters from roof or just open buckets? I would get the biggest that will fit in the space. What do you have now? 50? You can get 250 gallon totes used in your area. They are easy to find on Craigslist or similar site.

Thank you!
Which Noah is it? Can you call him into this thread please? I need this get done...

I take tap water from somewhere else run it through osmotic filters and then carry it to the other place.
Now I will probably buy another 100 gallon reservoir for just the nutrient solution. There would be still space for another 100 gallon reservoir. I might buy that later.

Also I always keep a 100 gallon reservoir with fresh osmotic water. That is the reservoir where I will put in the water that I carry to the place, so when I switch the nutrient solution, I will have enough water there.

So in summary, I will have 100 gallon nutrients and 100 gallons fresh osmotic water.

I have four 4x4 floodtables, which I will run sequential with solenoid valves. So 100 gallons will be enough for the 4 tables to start with.

Or set your tray on your barrell with a stand .
And pump right out of the barrel to the tray then gravity will drain it back to the barrel.

Did i miss somthing?

If I do that I would need to build some kind of high frame construction where I could place my tables on. Also my plants would be to high and I would get problems with the ceilings.

There is for sure a way to do it properly with a big reservoir. I don't believe that all commercial grows with floodtables only use low reservoirs and gravity.

Ok got ya
Well one idea. Put your table where you want it.
Then put your barrel where you want it

Then make your table drain into a "sump" bucket with a sump pump.

When it fills the sump bucket the pump would turn on and dump it in the barrel
Just like a basment sump setup

Although this adds complications such as needing extra plubming and 2 pumps. And the risk of flood if your table will hold more than the sump bucket can hold and the pump fails

Are you set on a rain barrel if so why?

Just my opinnon but i would try to keep it simple.
And figure out a way to use only 1 pump in the res
And use gravity to drain back .

Sorry if this didnt help

low reservoir and gravity is the cheapest way. It's not the only way. You can get water level sensors that will pump water till it reaches a certain height, then it will pump it back out again but these sensors are expensive.
It is said that mechanical sensors can fail which I would never want to happen and the setup looks complicated but have a look http://www.iwssystems.co.uk/Downloads/Flood Drain Instructions.pdf

It is an automatic flood and drain pump, designed for several pots but can be used for one large growbed also, the bed would be 15 cm from the ground using this system.

I don't see the big issue using low resevoir and gravity, i used to have my grow beds on 40cm tall tables, this would allow the beds to drain into the reservoir below after a flood, 25cm more for a lot less hassle...

so first... @jemstone who is this noah? was it a biblical joke only?

The reasoning why I don't do pots and a low reservoir.
I do sea of green with something between 150 to 200 plants in rockwool. I can't switch from tables to pots.
Also I want to use only one big reservoir, not several. The biggest low reservoir I could find was 378 litres.
Also I am using CO2 and I don't want to keep the reservoir in the grow room because I will use flooming for water aeration and that might cause problem with the PH of the water.
The low reservoir wastes too much space outside of my grow room. A big barrell seems much better. I even could put two barrells in that space. That would be more than twice the amount of water.

So far I got in thinking about a solution:
Yes, a second small reservoir into which the nutrients drain and a pump will pump it back to the reservoir then. Then I will use a sensor and if the water in the small reservoir will raise above a certain level, I will shut down the water supply. Problem of potential overflow solved.

But the problem I have, is how I make it drain into the small reservoir and not into the line it came from? There must be some kind of non return valve to use?

I did find this valve here. It has a drain with it.

https://www.innovativegrowersequipment.com/product-page/quick-valve

It cost 50 bucks per unit. So I will build it better myself instead of buying four of them...

What is the mechanism in this valve? How is it possible to fill the table with this valve without draining it at the same time?

Sorry its late and im baked

sorry, I am not sure what you mean by "you put the intake line several inches above the drain line in elevation lol the drain being the lowest point and the intake the height of the water lvl."

Can you explain?

If I use water sensors and water emergency stops, there is no possibility that there will be a puddle.

My bad i was ass backward like i said it was late and yea.....

Just look up flood and drain design easier for you to see then me explain

But im also thinking about it in a old school way without the water sensors.

Im sorry but i wouldnt know about those

So you wanted to say.... the intake being the lowest point and the drain the height of the water level?

Normally in flood and drain the intake is the drain and you have an additional overflow. But because I need to drain first in another reservoir, the nutrients can't run the same intake line back....

And I hoped there is a simpler solution than working with more solenoids, as I worry about timing them properly and I am not sure how failsafe these devices....

The attached valve looks interesting, but I am not sure by what mechanism the drain works... I mean if you have this valve, how can you fill the table without draining it at the same time?

Ok i think i get it now .
Sorry im not more versed in flood and drain systems.
Ive been a dwc guy for too long lol

I got a message from a shop and they said, that in these valves for 50 bucks is a Venturi valve which uses the Venturi effect.

Googled Venturi effect and now I still don't understand, how these valves are built.

Im familiar with using a venturi for getting DO into the res in dwc
But ive never heard of venturis for flood and drain
Interesting.

Bell syphons are extremely cool too i always wanted to figure out how to use it for hydro

But this valve isn't a bell syphon or is it?

I am still figuring out which solution to choose.
It seems like I will go with solenoids which let the tables flood and drain sequentially and under the tables I will have a small reservoir where it drains into from the tables. In that reservoir will be a pump which gets activated when there is enough liquid in the reservoir.

Can anybody tell me what items do I need to activate the pump properly? Is it with a float switch, or some other sensor?

Or are there pumps which you connect into the tubing, some sort of inline pumps?

Does anybody know somebody, who has expertise in such kind of operations?