CobKits
Well-Known Member
short answer: spend a lot more on hardware and run the leds softer. efficiency goes up substantially
How to cover more space for less watts?
- Thread starter Unagi
- Start date
Amazing! Im so excited about this move into led, i realize how fortunate i am to have good folks like you to guide me 
@Everyone in this thread
I'm getting into diy, i feel like it's worth learning. What kind tools would I need to build one the setups you suggested?
@nfhiggs would this be something along the lines of a diy quantum board?
@Everyone in this thread
Im a led beginner, but from what I understand this is something along the same line as what Photon flinger suggested? It would be easier to digest the information if there was a build journal here or video perhaps.
I'm getting into diy, i feel like it's worth learning. What kind tools would I need to build one the setups you suggested?
@nfhiggs would this be something along the lines of a diy quantum board?
Rahz
Well-Known Member
For a strong veg you might want around 10 PAR watts per foot. 3x9 = 27, x 10 = 270. What it takes to get that depends on how efficiently you want to drive the cobs. Since you have a 2500w budget let's take a look at what it will take to flower your area and see if we have anything left over.
Ideally the Par watts per square foot should be somewhere between 15 and 25, 20 being a middle ground that's pretty intense (around 1000 PPFD), so if you want your 10x10 filled with a 2 foot strip down the middle, 64 sqare feet of space needs to be lit. At 20pw/swft that would be 1280 PAR watts needed. At 700ma Vero 29C is about 56% efficient so would take 2285 watts to fill the flower area, leaving not enough wattage for veg. At 500ma Vero 29C is about 61% efficient so would take 2098 watts, leaving 367 watts for veg. This still isn't quite enough to get 270 par watts in the veg area.
Dropping down to 350ma would satisfy your requirements.
Dropping the PAR wattage per foot in flower to around 18 would also satisfy your wattage requirements at 500ma.
At 350ma (20 par watts per foot) you will need 90 cobs in the flower area and 19 in the veg area.
At 500ma (18 par watts per foot) you will need 60 cobs in the flower area and 14 in the veg area.
It's an expensive job either way but the 500ma option would save around a grand.
Ideally the Par watts per square foot should be somewhere between 15 and 25, 20 being a middle ground that's pretty intense (around 1000 PPFD), so if you want your 10x10 filled with a 2 foot strip down the middle, 64 sqare feet of space needs to be lit. At 20pw/swft that would be 1280 PAR watts needed. At 700ma Vero 29C is about 56% efficient so would take 2285 watts to fill the flower area, leaving not enough wattage for veg. At 500ma Vero 29C is about 61% efficient so would take 2098 watts, leaving 367 watts for veg. This still isn't quite enough to get 270 par watts in the veg area.
Dropping down to 350ma would satisfy your requirements.
Dropping the PAR wattage per foot in flower to around 18 would also satisfy your wattage requirements at 500ma.
At 350ma (20 par watts per foot) you will need 90 cobs in the flower area and 19 in the veg area.
At 500ma (18 par watts per foot) you will need 60 cobs in the flower area and 14 in the veg area.
It's an expensive job either way but the 500ma option would save around a grand.
Right! Hello folks, lets dig into it!
So currently im growing with 3x 600w hid, 1 mh for veg and 2 hps for bloom.
Veg room is 3x9'
Flower room is 10x10', atm the two hps only cover about 4x8 of this space.
I'm switching over to led, the diy way. Now money wont be an issue im willing to spend the cash to cover the growspace. I have one limit and that is power, i only have around 2300-2500 watts to use on lights.
Is there any way i could use less than 600w for my veg room and put the leftover watt into my flowering room?
I realize there are topics and posts that explain how to calculate the amount of lights you need to cover a certain area. But i dont know how to figure out the way to cover more space and stay within my 2500 watt limit.
Any advice is apprechiated
Wow, thanks for breaking it down like this. This is very useful for me.
Ok lets say i do go for the 74 cobs At 500ma option, could I upgrade this to the 119 cobs At 350ma in the future? Also what kind of heatsink would either of these setups require?
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
have you looked into bridgelux eb strips ? they can be run at up to 700ma without a heat sink and can produce 159lpw at that power level seems like the least expensive option and it would give you more uniform coverage and could be place closer to the plants then COBsRight! Hello folks, lets dig into it!
So currently im growing with 3x 600w hid, 1 mh for veg and 2 hps for bloom.
Veg room is 3x9'
Flower room is 10x10', atm the two hps only cover about 4x8 of this space.
I'm switching over to led, the diy way. Now money wont be an issue im willing to spend the cash to cover the growspace. I have one limit and that is power, i only have around 2300-2500 watts to use on lights.
Is there any way i could use less than 600w for my veg room and put the leftover watt into my flowering room?
I realize there are topics and posts that explain how to calculate the amount of lights you need to cover a certain area. But i dont know how to figure out the way to cover more space and stay within my 2500 watt limit.
Any advice is apprechiated
Honestly I looked for the Samsung f series strip @nfhiggs mentioned and it gave me a headache going through digikey. And keeping the lights closer dont really appeal to me all that much.
Is there a simple way to avoid drilling the ceiling to put up fixtures?
Rahz
Well-Known Member
You could "upgrade" to 350ma by dimming the current (with A or B series drivers). That way you don't have to buy new drivers for the cobs you already have.
I think 120mm pin fins would be more than enough cooling for the at 500ma, 350ma could pair with something in the 90mm range.
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
you can mount them on a simple wood frame and hang them like any other light. I have used digikey in the past with no problem but LEDs do require a little special knowledge. they do not need to be placed close to plants but the more uniform light distribution and lack of hot spots allows them to be placed closer to plants.perhaps you should try a small test grow to figure things out before you build a large commercial grow. if you are in a legal state then you will be competing with large commercial growers and may need to focus more on quality than quantity to remain competitive. I'm just a small PU MMJ closet grower in a legal state but I have made enough money in the capitol markets to retire comfortably so I know a little about business and why most small businesses fail.
Seems like a nobrainer then, I'll go with 500ma with dimmable drivers for future upgrade down the line. Would I need reflectors for this setup aswell, and is it possible to get it all solderless?
@mauricem00 it's not legal here in Norway.
Now I just need to find a reasonable supplier that can ship to Norway and im all set. Maybe down the line I'll make sure Norway has their own supply of diy cobs etc. 800w blurples go for 2k-3k$ It's discusting.
Free Norway!
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Rahz
Well-Known Member
I never used reflectors, you just have to get the lamps down on the plants when it counts. Vero Special Edition are solderless. Due to voltage limits Vero 29C should have a max of 7 cobs in series, 6 to be on the safe side. It would be difficult to find a driver that would power more than 6 at 500ma but that limit goes no matter what current/wattage you're running them at. Also, any more than 4 and you want to use 600v rated wire.
HLG-185H-C500B has enough wattage to run 6 at 500ma. 10 of those would make your 60 cobs, 30 per side. How you go about working that in, the obvious choice to me would be 2x 5 double bar lamps with two rows of 3 cobs each making a 3x10 grid per side. Cob distance in each 2x3 fixture around 9" between the two rows and 16" between each cob in row of 3.
For veg, 3 lamps with 4 cobs each in a square configuration using HLG-120H-C500B, maybe 18" spacing between cobs so each lamp has a solid footprint in a 3x3' space.
HLG-185H-C500B has enough wattage to run 6 at 500ma. 10 of those would make your 60 cobs, 30 per side. How you go about working that in, the obvious choice to me would be 2x 5 double bar lamps with two rows of 3 cobs each making a 3x10 grid per side. Cob distance in each 2x3 fixture around 9" between the two rows and 16" between each cob in row of 3.
For veg, 3 lamps with 4 cobs each in a square configuration using HLG-120H-C500B, maybe 18" spacing between cobs so each lamp has a solid footprint in a 3x3' space.
Danielson999
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that you'll need to keep these cobs very close to the canopy. Running at such a low amperage makes them basically like an LED light bulb. Not much power behind them, or penetration. Which is why EB strips are a great alternative. At low amperage the strips don't need heatsinks and most guys use cut to length pieces of angle aluminum which acts as the heatsink and the light frame. Cuts your costs by quite a bit. Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
Here is the ones they have at Digikey
Just take your pick. Free worldwide shipping on orders over $100
The ones I mentioned are the ones for $62 each (price has gone up)
edit - Oops, that's the Austrailian site.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
DrBlaze
Well-Known Member
IMO if you're looking to lower currents in the future you're much better off using Constant Voltage drivers instead of Constant Current. How hard they run the cobs depends on how many cobs are hooked up per driver. So when you have more funds you buy more cobs and hook them to the same driver and your setup gets more and more efficient. This way you aren't wasting capacity of the driver by dimming and having to buy more drivers to expand.
I saved quite a bit by buying the ELG series instead of the HLG series. You can basically plan your fixtures around the driver. To retain maximum optionality, you can just build a bunch of 250w light bars. The ELG-240-48A will top out prob between 250-260w. Start out with 5 cob (or more) per driver maybe (the cxm22 is great at 50w), and if you add more later the current per cob keeps going down.
The HLG series are the cadillac, for sure. But I just couldn't justify spending almost double to gain 1-2% efficiency, especially in a room that will eventually need 15-20 drivers
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Apprechiate all the good info from everyone. Think im going to try and create growmau5's 850w over 4x8 setup. Only I'll double down.
I really only have a final question, does anyone know wich cobs perform better or is all of them pretty close? I guess what im asking is which cobs would you go with if you built this for yourself?
I really only have a final question, does anyone know wich cobs perform better or is all of them pretty close? I guess what im asking is which cobs would you go with if you built this for yourself?