Humans Are Naturally Plant-Eaters

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

Humans are naturally plant-eaters

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

opinions?

Nusky · Sep 11, 2011

my dad tried to push that crap on me when he went vegetarian. Bottom line is if we weren't meant to eat meat, we would probably puke it up

cannabineer · Sep 11, 2011

The #1 vegetable in Texas is veal.

Jakabok Botch · Sep 11, 2011

all our teeth would be like our molars....we are omnivores.... we eat everything lol....

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

Nusky said:
my dad tried to push that crap on me when he went vegetarian. Bottom line is if we weren't meant to eat meat, we would probably puke it up

not exactly true. Cats are carnivores, but we feed them rice/corn/wheat in modern day dry food

The Cryptkeeper · Sep 11, 2011

We have Maxillary and Mandibular Canines. We are meat eaters. By nature.

RawBudzski · Sep 11, 2011

We are creatures who rarely discriminate when hunger arises. <3

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

RawBudzski said:
We are creatures who rarely discriminate when hunger arises. <3

did you ever see a human kill a chicken or a cow, and eat it bloody raw on the spot like a carnivore?
no, we dress up meat with sauce, BBQ, bread, soups, etc.. to make it tolerable

Jakabok Botch · Sep 11, 2011

uv never had tiger burgers???

The Cryptkeeper · Sep 11, 2011

squarepush3r said:
did you ever see a human kill a chicken or a cow, and eat it bloody raw on the spot like a carnivore?
no, we dress up meat with sauce, BBQ, bread, soups, etc.. to make it tolerable

I don't need to dress it up. LOL I'll eat chicken plain as long as it's cooked. I mean, I could eat it raw... but why not when we've got such wonderful recipes? =)

Jakabok Botch · Sep 11, 2011

squarepush3r said:
no, we dress up meat with sauce, BBQ, bread, soups, etc.. to make it tolerable

u think we always had that stuff??? thats for u young pups who are picky and cant eat real food lol

Slojo69 · Sep 11, 2011

squarepush3r said:
did you ever see a human kill a chicken or a cow, and eat it bloody raw on the spot like a carnivore?
no, we dress up meat with sauce, BBQ, bread, soups, etc.. to make it tolerable

We don't eat it raw because we are not immune to the bacteria in the raw meat there chief. Need to cook it up to kill anything living inside it. And why not dress it up? I love bbq'd steaks that have been marinated over night in a nice Red Wine and Garlic marinade ... mmmmm, I think I know what I'm doing tomorrow!

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

Slojo69 said:
We don't eat it raw because we are not immune to the bacteria in the raw meat there chief. Need to cook it up to kill anything living inside it. And why not dress it up? I love bbq'd steaks that have been marinated over night in a nice Red Wine and Garlic marinade ... mmmmm, I think I know what I'm doing tomorrow!

isn't this evidence that humans are not 'natural' meat eaters, that we cannot eat it without cooking it?
We can eat a fruit raw, nuts, vegetables, but we can't eat meat raw we rely on external cooking. Sure we can eat meat, but I'm saying that possibly it doesn't need to be a large part of our diet?

The Cryptkeeper · Sep 11, 2011

The Cryptkeeper said:
We have Maxillary and Mandibular Canines. We are meat eaters. By nature.

Meat eaters. By nature.

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

The Cryptkeeper said:
Meat eaters. By nature.

look at these amazing canines, for an animal thats 99% vegetarian ?

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/images/chimpteeth.png

The most common counter-arguments

Chimpanzee: Pretty amazing canines for an animal that's as much as 99% vegetarian (and whose main non-veg food isn't meat, it's termites). [SIZE=-2](Source: [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Creative Commons[/SIZE][SIZE=-2])[/SIZE]
"Humans have canine teeth. End of story."
The truth is our so-called "canine teeth" are canine in name only. Humans' "canine teeth" are unlike the canine teeth of actual canines, which are really long and really pointed. Our teeth are absolutely not like theirs. In fact, other vegetarian animals (like gorillas, horses, hippos, and chimpanzees) possess the same so-called "canine" teeth, which are often used for defensive purposes rather than for eating. Check out the chimpanzee picture at right, and consider that chimps' diets are up to 99% vegetarian (and what litle non-vegetarian food they eat usually isn't meat, it's termites). And remember that we're most similar to chimps than to any other animal.

John A. McDougall, M.D., has a good take on this:
Our dentition evolved for processing starches, fruits, and vegetables, not tearing and masticating flesh. Our oft-cited "canine" teeth are not at all comparable to the sharp teeth of true carnivores. I lecture to over 10,000 dentists, dental hygienists, and oral specialists every year, and I always ask them to show me the “canine” teeth in a person’s mouth – those that resemble a cat’s or dog’s teeth – I am still waiting to be shown the first example of a sharply pointed canine tooth.

If you have any doubt of the truth of this observation then go look in the mirror right now – you may have learned to call your 4 corner front teeth, “canine teeth” – but in no way do they resemble the sharp, jagged, blades of a true carnivore – your corner teeth are short, blunted, and flat on top (or slightly rounded at most). Nor do they ever function in the manner of true canine teeth. Have you ever observed someone purposely favoring these teeth while tearing off a piece of steak or chewing it? Nor have I. The lower jaw of a meat-eating animal has very little side-to-side motion – it is fixed to open and close, which adds strength and stability to its powerful bite. Like other plant-eating animals our jaw can move forwards and backwards, and side-to-side, as well as open and close, for biting off pieces of plant matter, and then grinding them into smaller pieces with our flat molars.

I love the canine argument because the people who make it place so much importance on it, insisting that humans having canines immediately wins the whole argument, all by itself, case closed! But when they discover that they were wrong, then suddenly the canine issue really wasn't so important to them after all, and they simply move on to their next misconception, as though their previous argument never happened. That really lays their motivations bare: They were never really interested in evaluating the evidence, they were only interested in being right. But really, if someone thinks that canine teeth are the be-all and end-all of the herbivore vs. omnivore debate, then when they find out that they're wrong about teeth, that ought to tell them something. But does it ever? Nope. If you want an evidence of bias, there you have it.

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

The Cryptkeeper said:
Meat eaters. By nature.

look at these amazing canines, for an animal thats 99% vegetarian ?

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/images/chimpteeth.png

The most common counter-arguments

Chimpanzee: Pretty amazing canines for an animal that's as much as 99% vegetarian (and whose main non-veg food isn't meat, it's termites). [SIZE=-2](Source: [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Creative Commons[/SIZE][SIZE=-2])[/SIZE]
"Humans have canine teeth. End of story."
The truth is our so-called "canine teeth" are canine in name only. Humans' "canine teeth" are unlike the canine teeth of actual canines, which are really long and really pointed. Our teeth are absolutely not like theirs. In fact, other vegetarian animals (like gorillas, horses, hippos, and chimpanzees) possess the same so-called "canine" teeth, which are often used for defensive purposes rather than for eating. Check out the chimpanzee picture at right, and consider that chimps' diets are up to 99% vegetarian (and what litle non-vegetarian food they eat usually isn't meat, it's termites). And remember that we're most similar to chimps than to any other animal.

John A. McDougall, M.D., has a good take on this:
Our dentition evolved for processing starches, fruits, and vegetables, not tearing and masticating flesh. Our oft-cited "canine" teeth are not at all comparable to the sharp teeth of true carnivores. I lecture to over 10,000 dentists, dental hygienists, and oral specialists every year, and I always ask them to show me the “canine” teeth in a person’s mouth – those that resemble a cat’s or dog’s teeth – I am still waiting to be shown the first example of a sharply pointed canine tooth.

If you have any doubt of the truth of this observation then go look in the mirror right now – you may have learned to call your 4 corner front teeth, “canine teeth” – but in no way do they resemble the sharp, jagged, blades of a true carnivore – your corner teeth are short, blunted, and flat on top (or slightly rounded at most). Nor do they ever function in the manner of true canine teeth. Have you ever observed someone purposely favoring these teeth while tearing off a piece of steak or chewing it? Nor have I. The lower jaw of a meat-eating animal has very little side-to-side motion – it is fixed to open and close, which adds strength and stability to its powerful bite. Like other plant-eating animals our jaw can move forwards and backwards, and side-to-side, as well as open and close, for biting off pieces of plant matter, and then grinding them into smaller pieces with our flat molars.

I love the canine argument because the people who make it place so much importance on it, insisting that humans having canines immediately wins the whole argument, all by itself, case closed! But when they discover that they were wrong, then suddenly the canine issue really wasn't so important to them after all, and they simply move on to their next misconception, as though their previous argument never happened. That really lays their motivations bare: They were never really interested in evaluating the evidence, they were only interested in being right. But really, if someone thinks that canine teeth are the be-all and end-all of the herbivore vs. omnivore debate, then when they find out that they're wrong about teeth, that ought to tell them something. But does it ever? Nope. If you want an evidence of bias, there you have it.

The Cryptkeeper · Sep 11, 2011

I just want to point out the reasons for the 'bacteria' argument.

Humans have de-evolved to some extent. We know longer need an adequate immune system because we have naturally resolved the issue of bacteria thru cooking.

Raw meat doesn't develop sufficient bacteria to make you noticeably ill until after some time. Eaten fresh after the kill, and it has hardly any bacteria that will seriously ail you.

An acidic stomach and quick bowel movement to prevent colonization, and you can eat meat.

RawBudzski · Sep 11, 2011

it is evidence of common sense. cooked food tastes better, neanderthals had "fire". & also has larger brains. But back on topic, we cook meat to kill all the bacteria that may make us ill/sick give us parasites & what not. Does not mean we could not survive w/ such illnesses. It was normal to take real bath once every several weeks / months.. Lice, mites, parasites was part of every day life.

squarepush3r said:
isn't this evidence that humans are not 'natural' meat eaters, that we cannot eat it without cooking it?
We can eat a fruit raw, nuts, vegetables, but we can't eat meat raw we rely on external cooking. Sure we can eat meat, but I'm saying that possibly it doesn't need to be a large part of our diet?

The Cryptkeeper · Sep 11, 2011

squarepush3r said:
look at these amazing canines, for an animal thats 99% vegetarian ?

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/images/chimpteeth.png

Haha. Did you type in Google 'humans canine teeth vegetarian'?

That is a complete absent of references article that has terrible writing.

All orthodontic text show that the canines primary function, modern and prehistorically, is the processing of meat.

squarepush3r · Sep 11, 2011

The Cryptkeeper said:
I just want to point out the reasons for the 'bacteria' argument.

Humans have de-evolved to some extent. We know longer need an adequate immune system because we have naturally resolved the issue of bacteria thru cooking.

Raw meat doesn't develop sufficient bacteria to make you noticeably ill until after some time. Eaten fresh after the kill, and it has hardly any bacteria that will seriously ail you.

An acidic stomach and quick bowel movement to prevent colonization, and you can eat meat.

RawBudzski said:
it is evidence of common sense. cooked food tastes better, neanderthals had "fire". & also has larger brains. But back on topic, we cook meat to kill all the bacteria that may make us ill/sick give us parasites & what not. Does not mean we could not survive w/ such illnesses. It was normal to take real bath once every several weeks / months.. Lice, mites, parasites was part of every day life.

I'm just curious where exactly in the point of evolution, which lets say for the argument exists here, did primates go from herbivore - to full on red bloody meat carnivore, back to carnivore-lite (need to cook meat to prevent against disease, cannot eat it naturally or it doesn't taste good) ?

Also, regarding the acidic issue, according to the chart above, most carnivores have a stomach ph of about 1-2, and herbivores for 5-6, and humans fall into the latter category.

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