Humistat controlled 2 way relay.

Rocket Soul · Mar 16, 2024

Automation people: can anyone advice me of such a device:
- programmable humistat controlled relay with 2 separate relays
-reliable
- local logic; does not need to be connected to the cloud or wifi in order to trigger the switch.
- from the box functionality; no special programming on rasberry pie needed.
Anyone has any idea?

1212ham · Mar 16, 2024

Designed specifically for dehumidifiers etc. Ive used Inkbirds for years.

INKBIRD Digital Pre-Wired Outlet Dual Stage Humidity Controller IHC-200

IHC-200 is an easy-to-use, safe, and reliable dual relay output humidity gauge controller. It can be used as overtemperature protection and automatic temperature control system for various electric appliances such as equipment for home-brew, pet breeding, incubation, seedling heat mats, oven...

eu.inkbird.com

Rennpappe · Mar 16, 2024

Siemens Logo can do it all but it's rather complicated to set up.

Rocket Soul said:
relay with 2 separate relays

I guess what you want is something like
Turn dehumidifier on 70%
Turn dehumidifier off 65%
Turn humidifier on 40%
Turn humidifier off 45%

Thats two relays and four setpoints.

Or so?

unreal1 · Mar 16, 2024

1212ham said:
Designed specifically for dehumidifiers etc. Ive used Inkbirds for years.

INKBIRD Digital Pre-Wired Outlet Dual Stage Humidity Controller IHC-200

IHC-200 is an easy-to-use, safe, and reliable dual relay output humidity gauge controller. It can be used as overtemperature protection and automatic temperature control system for various electric appliances such as equipment for home-brew, pet breeding, incubation, seedling heat mats, oven...

eu.inkbird.com

I can vouch for the Inkbird Controllers. They work great and the price is right.

Rocket Soul · Mar 17, 2024

Rennpappe said:
Siemens Logo can do it all but it's rather complicated to set up.

I guess what you want is something like
Turn dehumidifier on 70%
Turn dehumidifier off 65%
Turn humidifier on 40%
Turn humidifier off 45%

Thats two relays and four setpoints.

Or so?

The siemens logo is probably over speced for me and a bit expensive. I literally just need high and low point for humistat, controllin two separate relays, all onboard no logic in the cloud. I was hoping Shelly wpuld do it but not wothout programming. Still trying to get info if it would work with a Sonoff.

unreal1 said:
I can vouch for the Inkbird Controllers. They work great and the price is right.

Ink bird could be a good option, does it do low voltage DC?

smoke and coke · Mar 17, 2024

How are you getting your DC power source?
The ink bird has 2 outputs. 1 has a high and low set point to turn on a dehumidifier and the 2nd output turns on and off the humidifier. Both are a 120 volt plug in outputs.
You would have to plug in the 120 volt power source that will turn on the DC power or you would need an ice cube relay that has a 120 volt coil that will control the contacts for the separately derived DC source.

Rocket Soul · Mar 17, 2024

smoke and coke said:
How are you getting your DC power source?
The ink bird has 2 outputs. 1 has a high and low set point to turn on a dehumidifier and the 2nd output turns on and off the humidifier. Both are a 120 volt plug in outputs.
You would have to plug in the 120 volt power source that will turn on the DC power or you would need an ice cube relay that has a 120 volt coil that will control the contacts for the separately derived DC source.

Im doing this in order to better control and use the amps on my installation, were pushed up close to our limit.
What im trying to do is the take away the humistat sensor of my quest dehuey. Its got an external controll circuit; if i open this circuit using the humistat relay the quest start dehumidifying and running. Now at the same time i need another relay to open; this relay controls dimming on a few of our drivers. When this circuit opens its like if you shorted the dimmer cables; driver dims to 0%. So when the quest is running no power on these extra drivers. Once its finished its cycle the relays flipp back so the quest dont run and it also cuts the dimmer relays resulting to the driver going back on.

Edit: so the dc power is coming from the dimmer circuit.

Its a bit tricky to explain but ive tried with switches and it works. I just need an external humistat that controls 2 relays.

Rennpappe · Mar 17, 2024

The order is important: first dim the lamps and after that start the dehumidifier.
Does your dehumidifier start immediately? Some dehumidifiers do nothing a couple of minutes after they get power to let the cooling liquid settle.

Maybe you can use this but you'll have to wire in two external relays yourself:

Fertraso Hygrostaat 10-90% (Vochtregelaar)

-

www.kweekhuis.nl

Rocket Soul · Mar 17, 2024

1212ham said:
Designed specifically for dehumidifiers etc. Ive used Inkbirds for years.

INKBIRD Digital Pre-Wired Outlet Dual Stage Humidity Controller IHC-200

IHC-200 is an easy-to-use, safe, and reliable dual relay output humidity gauge controller. It can be used as overtemperature protection and automatic temperature control system for various electric appliances such as equipment for home-brew, pet breeding, incubation, seedling heat mats, oven...

eu.inkbird.com

unreal1 said:
I can vouch for the Inkbird Controllers. They work great and the price is right.

Inkbird fellas: have you got one of these running at the moment? From what ive browsed thru user reviews it seems to have one humistat setting for one plugg and another setting for the other plugg. What i need to do is to trigger both relays with the same rh humistat. Can you confirm that this thing is able to that? From what i understood one plug is for a dehuey and the other for a humidifier. Sounds like they are working separately.

unreal1 · Mar 17, 2024

Rocket Soul said:
Inkbird fellas: have you got one of these running at the moment? From what ive browsed thru user reviews it seems to have one humistat setting for one plugg and another setting for the other plugg. What i need to do is to trigger both relays with the same rh humistat. Can you confirm that this thing is able to that? From what i understood one plug is for a dehuey and the other for a humidifier. Sounds like they are working separately.

The outlets work inversely of each other. One will trigger on humidity rising and one will trigger upon humidity falling. The set points are fully adjustable as well as the hysteresis between the low and high setting.

Rocket Soul · Mar 17, 2024

unreal1 said:
The outlets work inversely of each other. One will trigger on humidity rising and one will trigger upon humidity falling. The set points are fully adjustable as well as the hysteresis between the low and high setting.

Thats not going to work for me then. Thx for the headsup, i was almost buying a couple on amazon

Rocket Soul · Mar 17, 2024

Rennpappe said:
The order is important: first dim the lamps and after that start the dehumidifier.
Does your dehumidifier start immediately? Some dehumidifiers do nothing a couple of minutes after they get power to let the cooling liquid settle.

Maybe you can use this but you'll have to wire in two external relays yourself:

Fertraso Hygrostaat 10-90% (Vochtregelaar)

-

www.kweekhuis.nl

View attachment 5378479

Both led driver and dehuey are technically on, so there shouldnt be any inrush current. The relays are meant to cut and open control signal currents.

Does that relay have 2 channels? Is there a 2 plug version?

Rennpappe · Mar 17, 2024

Most dehumidifiers are compressor types and will have a inrush current when the compressor starts.

I think that what you want does not exist. A regular humidity control has no need for two separate relays. Why would it?

1212ham · Mar 17, 2024

Rocket Soul said:
Im doing this in order to better control and use the amps on my installation, were pushed up close to our limit.
What im trying to do is the take away the humistat sensor of my quest dehuey. Its got an external controll circuit; if i open this circuit using the humistat relay the quest start dehumidifying and running. Now at the same time i need another relay to open; this relay controls dimming on a few of our drivers. When this circuit opens its like if you shorted the dimmer cables; driver dims to 0%. So when the quest is running no power on these extra drivers. Once its finished its cycle the relays flipp back so the quest dont run and it also cuts the dimmer relays resulting to the driver going back on.

Edit: so the dc power is coming from the dimmer circuit.

Its a bit tricky to explain but ive tried with switches and it works. I just need an external humistat that controls 2 relays.

It sounds like a relay powered by a humidistat/controller will work. A double pole relay has two sets of contacts so it can switch two separate circuits, your dehumidifier and lights. What you need is a DPDT relay (Double Pole Double Throw) with a coil to match the AC power voltage of your country.

An example...

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

What is DPDT Relay: How does a DPDT Relay Work?

In this post, we will have a detailed look at What is DPDT Relay Relay. Let's suppose that you have to control many circuits

www.theengineeringknowledge.com

Lou66 · Mar 17, 2024

Before you effectively start unpluggig your dehumidifier constantly check with the manufacturer if the device can take this sort of usage. Don't want to break it.

I think you make it much too complicated. If the dehumidifier already has a humidistat just leave it running. Get a second humidistat with an outlet for the lamp. Make sure it is calibrated by putting both sensors next to each other and record the difference. Then set the lamp humidistat on a opposing cycle. It turns off when humidity is high. Program it so, that it turn off 1 or 2 points before the dehumidifier turns on (accounting for calibration) and you get the behaviour you want with little effort.
In rush current should not be a problem for circuit breakers. Maybe yours are different but a 16 A unit that is common routinely takes 100 A of inrush current. It would be useless if it tripped every time the washing machine starts.

If you dont want to unplug the lamp then unplug the dimmer or put a relais in the dimming circuit that gets switched. I don't know what you are using or how much wiring you're willing to do.

Rennpappe · Mar 18, 2024

Lou66 said:
If the dehumidifier already has a humidistat ... Get a second humidistat ... Make sure it is calibrated ...

That will never work. Two humidistats will never switch the same, not even close.
Have one (1) humidistat and work from there.

Lou66 · Mar 18, 2024

Rennpappe said:
That will never work. Two humidistats will never switch the same, not even close.
Have one (1) humidistat and work from there.

Then propose a solution that does not involve building a proper control circuit or spending loads of money on one.

Also, did you read the part about calibrating? That's the key to get the same switching behaviour.

Rennpappe · Mar 18, 2024

He wants to reduce the power draw by switching lights off when the dehumidifier turns on.
You can't do that with calibrated humidistats.
Also he wants it to work out of the box.
Good luck.

Edit:

Rocket Soul · Mar 18, 2024

Lou66 said:
Before you effectively start unpluggig your dehumidifier constantly check with the manufacturer if the device can take this sort of usage. Don't want to break it.

I think you make it much too complicated. If the dehumidifier already has a humidistat just leave it running. Get a second humidistat with an outlet for the lamp. Make sure it is calibrated by putting both sensors next to each other and record the difference. Then set the lamp humidistat on a opposing cycle. It turns off when humidity is high. Program it so, that it turn off 1 or 2 points before the dehumidifier turns on (accounting for calibration) and you get the behaviour you want with little effort.
In rush current should not be a problem for circuit breakers. Maybe yours are different but a 16 A unit that is common routinely takes 100 A of inrush current. It would be useless if it tripped every time the washing machine starts.

If you dont want to unplug the lamp then unplug the dimmer or put a relais in the dimming circuit that gets switched. I don't know what you are using or how much wiring you're willing to do.

I know it sounds complicated when i describe it but it really isnt; this is the way Quest recommended for external humistat control. Having 2 humistats; i think it will be very hard to achieve what i want; ironclad control so the quest and our extra drivers are never turned up together. This is all for operating at the end of the range of our available amps (which arent that many, standard house installation) so i want to avoid any kind of uncertainty, it needs to be able to run on its own completely with no interference from Murphy and his laws.
Ive already tried this with standard switches and it works fine. The only problem i have is finding the right device: double relay with humistat control which executes locally from the device.

What you describe with relay on the dimming circuit; this is already what im trying to implement; when the quest is activated (using its external control circuit) it should also open the dimming circuit without any resistive pot which shorts the dimming meaning 0 dim on the driver.

I do appreciate you trying to help here

Humistat controlled 2 way relay.

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