I believe in God but not the Bible

MellowFarmer said:

Hi Chief, I've honestly been wondering this and please forgive my assumptions? I am assuming by your name that you are a Native American? If I am right, I don't get why you are not more spiritually aligned with the more common Native Spirituality of Nature instead of believing another white men's lie? I get these weird ponderings stuck in my head, again I apoligise for assumptions.

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White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.

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I have this feeling, only because of where I was born along with a natural sense towards what I've seen of Native Spirituality that my Quebecois Grand Mother was basically screwing the pool boy, a Native lad (French & Indian War? My neck of woods originally, Canada border) and of course I will never prove he is really my Great grandfather and I'll never prove it and it is likely wishful day dream thinking especially considering my grandmother's dumping in an orphanage with her siblings doesn't seem to scream pool boy :blush: I guess I am fortunate. As some comedian, Chappelle? pointed out, it is rare to see 1 'Indian' and a miracle to see 2 and the ones I knew were Real MoFo's true to the core to their culture (I did meet them in college at my Native Studies Class) Any way, thank you for your response, I too wish the same

The best religions deny being religions and deny that they're better than any philosophy.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.

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Free of disease?

Can you connect the dots for me please?

polyarcturus said:

the bible is a tool wriiten by man distributed by man and made in mans "image" making it faulty in the first place. i dont believe in god the way most poeple do but if i was the first sentence of this post explains exactly how to correctly worship god. YOU WORSHIP HIM, NOT THE BIBLE. so forget about the bible because it is a tool to control masses. even if it is true, god would hate his own books by now. they are start of so many deaths.....

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and thats another good point. all religion does is cause war... god bless

st0wandgrow said:

Free of disease?

Can you connect the dots for me please?

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Im not that cultured, but from what I learned my ancestors were very clean and healthy people. I dont know if they were totally free of disease but they had very little thats for sure. We quickly caught what ever illnesses the Europeans brought over during their long and filthy ship ride over here and our immune system couldnt defend against it because the diseases were foreign to us. I think thats the story lol.

MellowFarmer said:

I have this feeling, only because of where I was born along with a natural sense towards what I've seen of Native Spirituality that my Quebecois Grand Mother was basically screwing the pool boy, a Native lad (French & Indian War? My neck of woods originally, Canada border) and of course I will never prove he is really my Great grandfather and I'll never prove it and it is likely wishful day dream thinking especially considering my grandmother's dumping in an orphanage with her siblings doesn't seem to scream pool boy :blush: I guess I am fortunate. As some comedian, Chappelle? pointed out, it is rare to see 1 'Indian' and a miracle to see 2 and the ones I knew were Real MoFo's true to the core to their culture (I did meet them in college at my Native Studies Class) Any way, thank you for your response, I too wish the same

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Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess. Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.

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while they didn't have the immune system for the diseases the european brought over i very much doubt they were disease free

ginjawarrior said:

while they didn't have the immune system for the diseases the european brought over i very much doubt they were disease free

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Read what I said to st0w.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess. Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.

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Thank you Chief! You have solved one of those things that linger in my head as just not making sense! I grew up Right on the border -The Tribe (PM me if you want more specifics) is literally half on our side, half on yours and I never met any Natives there who gave any inclination they preferred their own culture, but I was young, I still can't say anything except it wasn't apparent. It was in college in CA,where I met these Natives, again in a Native American Studies class so That isn't really saying All in the are were. But it has been in my head as a stark difference between growing up and college so I say your Theory holds a bit of water.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess. Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.

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...they still dance to get into a trance state. It's like that old rave scene but with mountains and chicken's foot necklaces instead of roller rinks and neon sticks

eye exaggerate said:

...they still dance to get into a trance state. It's like that old rave scene but with mountains and chicken's foot necklaces instead of roller rinks and neon sticks

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lol I guess your right. I do find the drumming and our scream style of singing empowering in a way.

Had no idea this thread was still going on. End all debate: Why do all religions have the same basic core values? They are super basic ie; be nice to each other, don't lie. These basic core values are the only ones that are emphasized today, but that was not always the case. Modern day religions have become a joke and there are examples of it everyday across the world. For example of some of these heads of religion not following what they preach, look at the accusations of child molestation among the Catholic clergy. Even more ridiculous examples of religion picking and choosing what to follow are every where. Ever pick up the Old Testament? The Jewish follow the same biblical events as Christians they just don't believe Jesus Christ was the massiah. From there Christianity decided to branch off and not believe in the Sabboth day and do away with other values they did not agree with. They don't follow the diet of Kosher foods as decreed by Moses because they believe the are no longer under the laws of Moses. Even though those were not the rules of Moses but could be said that they were the rules of God. These are just a few contradictions many can be found between Old and New Testaments. There are so many similarities between religions and I think this is due to years of devotion and self reflection that lead to the ultimate human condition. We are all instilled with these laws even if we were not brought up around religion. I believe religion and the books of faith are meant to teach the masses good values through stories and worship. These events in the bible could possibly be true, but why don't we treat it like history and learn from it instead of fighting over it. Why are the Jewish people right and the Muslim people wrong, at least that's what the US thinks because we are supporting them and have been for ages. Excuse my babbling that's what happens when you start thinking of such a deep topic while high. Just so many connections.

actually god can be found in science too. but not a personal god. as Einstein says, god is the fundamental principals of Physics. and as Michio Kaku says. god is a particle resonating Through 11th dimensional Hyperspace. and therefor it is not believing in god but knowing about Science

mindphuk said:

Please, don't think I am making light of your recovery from booze but I too was in AA & NA. I too had what I thought were spiritual experiences but never Jesus because I was never brought up believing in Jesus. Others have personal spiritual experiences of gods of their religion whether Hindi, Muslim, or whatever. Why is that? If Jesus is the real god, then we should all have Jesus experiences regardless of our upbringing, don't you think?

AA teaches us very quickly that in order to recover from alcoholism, we MUST have a spiritual awakening. When I went to meetings, abstinence from all mood altering substances was required, including cannabis. I don't drink anymore but I do smoke as I'm sure you do since you're here. It's funny how god is so concerned over whether people drink or not that he intervenes in their life to help them stop but he won't intervene for other similarly or even more important things.

Sorry, but personal spiritual experiences are not going to be convincing to others. In any conversation where we are tasked with trying to convince others that our ideas are correct, i.e. debates, internal thoughts and feelings are worthless.

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i can relate to most everything you've said..1st off i'm 18 years sober in aa but to me personally all the religious stuff is laughable.. that doesnt mean i'd laugh at or about anyones beliefs. far from it. got all the respect in the world for all people to think any way they want to. had a real hard time the higher power thing for several years but it finally worked itself out. just for today my hp is the concept,group,etc, of alcoholics anonymous. my job is to keep an open mind because i dont know shit. i'm a different person today than i was 18 yrs ago. dont believe it has anything to do with the bible or religion....a bunch of sober drunks taught me about love and it saved my ass....great thread fellows!

i once had a close friend and supervisor tell me "I ain't no alcoholic! Alcoholics go to meetings. I'm a fucking DRUNK! The only meeting i need is that cold beer meeting my mouth!"

RIP Jim Lukens. i love and miss you you crooked-dick, cantankerous, old, son of a bitch!

How does one even know about God to believe it? What do you believe God is?

What would you think of it, if there were no bible?

i dont believe in any religion. But i do believe that there is an ultimate creator.

lol but who created the creator???

“I believe in God but not the Bible” well this is actually the opposite of my own belief I really believe there’s a Bible & no God

MonsterBuzz said:

i dont believe in any religion. But i do believe that there is an ultimate creator.

lol but who created the creator???

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...turtles all the way down. cn