I just got to week 4 of flower, and I’d like to get some hardness to my harvest.

reallybigjesusfreak said:

YO. Answer the question, okay sure I’m salty. Whatever. Now address what LED you “don’t want to come off as a shill for”

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Already stated I am not going to list the brand (due to poor customer service). I am not pushing any brand so I wont get accused of trying to be a salesman for a company. Besides it is not about the brand. What difference does the brand make? I could build the exact same shit myself. Its the technology used.

Daveindiego said:

Any ideas?

I’m using a 600w HPS inside a 5x5 tent, growing in Coco and using an automated feeding system with RO water and base Botinicare nutrients and CalMag that I have begun to supplement with 1ml/gallon of botinicare flowering enhancer.

I have heard of G-10 made by Humboldt farmers or something like that. My hydro store was carrying it, and then stopped. When I asked about it, the clerk gave me some weird ass reply of ‘he heard that they added heavy metals’ to their nutrients. I took that with a grain of salt.

Any rate, any help appreciated.

Here is a pic from a day or two ago under the HPS light.

View attachment 4113300

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Are you talking about mendecino avalanch?

DinoTech said:

LOL, well it didnt. Like I said you can almost taste the salt in the air around here. You don't have to like it but I made that up all on my very own. See i'm a big kid too!

P.S> I never said they suck! Why is it people put their own words to other peoples post in an attempt to make them look right/intelligent?

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You implied just as much. What other conclusion would a person come to from this statement you made:

"LED's produce 90% light and 10% heat. Those HID lights are just the opposite. 90% Heat and 10% light. Plus only a small % of the HID is usable to the plant."

That is completely false and again sounds like something straight from a some LED companies marketing material.

Tx-Peanutt said:

That’s what I’m talking about .... Cobs is where it’s at when it comes to leds

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There are good LED lights. If I was going to go down the LED route I would go straight to Cobs.

xtsho said:

You implied just as much. What other conclusion would a person come to from this statement you made:

"LED's produce 90% light and 10% heat. Those HID lights are just the opposite. 90% Heat and 10% light. Plus only a small % of the HID is usable to the plant."

That is completely false and again sounds like something straight from a some LED companies marketing material.

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Wrong.

1) That is not false. You need to do some studying (not on youtube).

2)That implies LED's are more efficient. HID's will grow great buds.

Why are you trying so hard to make me look bad? Must have hit a nerve or something. I apologize if I upset your mood. Was not my intentions to start a fight.

Those are my own words formed from the science I have learned. Huh? Maybe I would make a good salesman then.

DinoTech said:

Already stated I am not going to list the brand (due to poor customer service). I am not pushing any brand so I wont get accused of trying to be a salesman for a company. Besides it is not about the brand. What difference does the brand make? I could build the exact same shit myself. Its the technology used.

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nobody is going to accuse you of that since i'm asking. I'm just curious why your so afraid to say it. Clearly you've not won any friends here so far, what do you have to lose?

DinoTech said:

Wrong.

1) That is not false. You need to do some studying (not on youtube).

2)That implies LED's are more efficient. HID's will grow great buds.

Why are you trying so hard to make me look bad? Must have hit a nerve or something. I apologize if I upset your mood. Was not my intentions to start a fight.

Those are my own words formed from the science I have learned. Huh? Maybe I would make a good salesman then.

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Oh brother. You call this a fight? I call it a mild mannered debate. Nothing more.

I think you need to stay off youtube and also stop reading the marketing garbage from the manufacturers of those blurple lights you'r using. You stated that HID's lose 90$ of their energy to heat. You couldn't be more wrong but I see where you got confused. You were thinking of incandescent bulbs.

"Incandescent bulbs These bulbs emit light when an electrical current causes a tungsten filament to glow; however, 90 percent of the energy used for the bulb is emitted as heat rather than light,"

HID's are much more efficient than that.

"In general, HID bulbs are 75-90 percent more efficient than incandescent bulbs and have a long lifetime, with metal halide and high-pressure sodium bulbs being far more efficient than mercury vapor bulbs."

LED's use less energy which is something I don't dispute.

"LED fixtures use 75-80 percent less electricity than incandescent bulbs, and can have a lifespan 25 times longer than incandescent light bulbs."

I got this information from Stanford University so maybe a little better than youtube.
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2016/ph240/bonanni2/docs/LightingEfficiency.pdf

I'm not anti-LED's but saying that your blurple light is better than my HID is ridiculous. I'll take a 600 watt HPS for flower over those lights you spent $1000 on any day. Come back with some real LED's and then you might have an argument.

For the record, every light in my house is and LED. I switched everything out because LED's do use much less power than HID's. I can fill six lamps and still use the same electricity as one when I was using 60 watt incandescent lights. All my security lights are LED's as well.

Can't argue with results. I guess we'll have to wait and see if your $1000 blurple lights are better than 600 watts of HID. I'll be here waiting to see.

Now thats a challenge I will accept. Tomo lets go over some ground rules and I am more than willing to do a challenge grow with you. But it all needs to be documented and I will even provide video of the entire grow so I wont get accused from some of the HID trolls that I switch out my lights for LEDs just for the picture.

it is weird tho how so many people on this forum think that because its purple its outdated. The commercial growers use white light for the employees mostly. Not the plants. I mean the science is solid I don't understand how people here don't get it. Its like the flat earthers. Whew I tell ya. The world is round people. If you need to be taught the science then that is another topic i don't want involved in. I went to school.

Time for Rocket League and some shots. Talk to you all tomo.

So as far as the original question about what you can do to get denser buds there's two aspects to consider. The grower whose in it for the paycheck wants dense buds because the plants that produce them are going to be the high yielders in terms of space. For those people you have to have a strain that will do it and dial in your environment.

The other side is the smoker. If the grower is growing for personal use there's a very simple solution. Pack your bowl tighter. Roll your joint tighter. Since you can grind it up and pack or roll it as tight or loose as you want the preference for denser buds makes no sense and is completely baseless from the perspective of the smoker.

How did daves thred get hijacked to a lighting debate?
Dave! Looken much better than this time last year. Glad to see you apply what you learnt and not give up! Your heat isnt that bad. I float between 82 and 85 and everything is better than fine.
Years and years ago g10 was flaged for heavy metals but they removed the product from shelves reformulated it and it was back within 6 months. I spoke with greenleaf abouht there product for flower hardening gravity. They informed me that when using there hardener or the product Rock Resonater the flowers will fail testing and g-10 by humboldt was the only hardener they knew of that the flowers pass clinical testing.

As a general rule for hid you need 30w per sq foot for co2 enrichment to even begin to help many dont even bother unless its 50w per sq foot.

Cooler night time temps = Denser buds?


From what ive seen its mainly been strain related for me. Even with hot temps ive gotten pretty dense buds off certain strains, fluffy off others.

Im experimenting with backbuilding some buds right now.
Where you snip the very tip of the buds

Allegedly it makes denser more round buds.

I have some buds on the perimeter that don't get enough light so I figured I would try it on a few of them.

There are youtube videos.

Again all it is supposed to do is make make it more round and dense.

charface said:

Im experimenting with backbuilding some buds right now.
Where you snip the very tip of the buds

Allegedly it makes denser more round buds.

I have some buds on the perimeter that don't get enough light so I figured I would try it on a few of them.

There are youtube videos.

Again all it is supposed to do is make make it more round and dense.

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Eh, I’m my experience the bud grew only nominally bigger, if at all. Sure grew ugly though, lol. Back building is a great way to grow mutant nugs

charface said:

Im experimenting with backbuilding some buds right now.
Where you snip the very tip of the buds

Allegedly it makes denser more round buds.

I have some buds on the perimeter that don't get enough light so I figured I would try it on a few of them.

There are youtube videos.

Again all it is supposed to do is make make it more round and dense.

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I've tried pinching bud tips and didn't see much difference.

Chunky Stool said:

I've tried pinching bud tips and didn't see much difference.

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Me either so far.

reallybigjesusfreak said:

Eh, I’m my experience the bud grew only nominally bigger, if at all. Sure grew ugly though, lol. Back building is a great way to grow mutant nugs

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Lol, figures,
Seems like a way to get an infection as well, but I gotta try everything once or twice

DinoTech said:

Now thats a challenge I will accept. Tomo lets go over some ground rules and I am more than willing to do a challenge grow with you. But it all needs to be documented and I will even provide video of the entire grow so I wont get accused from some of the HID trolls that I switch out my lights for LEDs just for the picture.

it is weird tho how so many people on this forum think that because its purple its outdated. The commercial growers use white light for the employees mostly. Not the plants. I mean the science is solid I don't understand how people here don't get it. Its like the flat earthers. Whew I tell ya. The world is round people. If you need to be taught the science then that is another topic i don't want involved in. I went to school.

Time for Rocket League and some shots. Talk to you all tomo.

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I'll pass. I don't have time to waste with some silly light challenge. I'm busy with my amateur breeding projects so I don't have space or time to bother with any challenge. Besides we would have to have clones from the same mother of the same strain to even begin. The logistics of that are not something I care to deal with.

I hope you enjoy a good grow and harvest.

I'm going to continue with my breeding. Just now harvesting seeds from crosses of Pakistani Citral Kush + Durban Poison, Pakistani Citral Kush + Panama, Panama + Candida CD1, Ruderalis + Candida CD1, Panama + Durban Poison, and a few more. I'm going to be busy pheno hunting through the Pakistani Poison I just made. After I find what I want I'll be working to stabilize the cross. So unfortunately I won't be able to indulge you in a challenge at this time as my grows for at least the next year are booked up. But I'll try and get you some seed stock when I'm confident with my work. I don't look at this as a contest. It's something I like to do and I share whatever I can for free.

DinoTech said:

Now thats a challenge I will accept. Tomo lets go over some ground rules and I am more than willing to do a challenge grow with you. But it all needs to be documented and I will even provide video of the entire grow so I wont get accused from some of the HID trolls that I switch out my lights for LEDs just for the picture.

it is weird tho how so many people on this forum think that because its purple its outdated. The commercial growers use white light for the employees mostly. Not the plants. I mean the science is solid I don't understand how people here don't get it. Its like the flat earthers. Whew I tell ya. The world is round people. If you need to be taught the science then that is another topic i don't want involved in. I went to school.

Time for Rocket League and some shots. Talk to you all tomo.

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Wow. The funny just keeps coming.

BTW, folks - this guy is an electrical enginer


"Talk to you all tomo"??? What? Were there no glitter emojis you could have thrown in???

DinoTech said:

Wrong.

1) That is not false. You need to do some studying (not on youtube).

2)That implies LED's are more efficient. HID's will grow great buds.

Why are you trying so hard to make me look bad? Must have hit a nerve or something. I apologize if I upset your mood. Was not my intentions to start a fight.

Those are my own words formed from the science I have learned. Huh? Maybe I would make a good salesman then.

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Dude you are SOOOO fucking wrong there its laughable. LEDS are 40-50% efficient. Thats is a fact. HID is 30-35% efficient. That is another FACT. That whole 90%/10% thing is just crap you pulled out of your ASS and it makes you look like an idiotic fanboy.

Yes, LEDs are more efficient, by as much as 35%, in terms of uMols/J. That is another fact.