I may have to start watching this dyke more often!

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
That's the conservative mantra, "I've got mine, fuck you". They can't see that a society that works, helps everyone to do better. Yes, it is taxes that provide that opportunity for those that are less endowed with fortune. Somehow the conservatives that already have theirs, don't want to help anyone with less. Let's not forget there are millions that have squat. They are on some barely survival mode of government assistance. This country, once the richest on earth, (Not now I fear), should fund everyone that wants a college education, if they can pass the entrance exam, which would be predicated on the national average SAT scores. A country that only rewards the wealthy, Is a country destined for failure. Crank up your history memory and see what Unwarranted wealth and debauchery has wrought. We are well on the way to the end of that path. Government spending on the military and bailing out bankrupt businesses have decimatated the wealth of the average citizen while making the wealthiest even wealthier. A system that is hell bent on policing the world can not survive financially. I believe we have passed the tipping point, and when China starts calling in our loans, the bankruptcy signs may finally wave over Washington.
Click to expand...
Homeschoolers smoke public education students in tests. Fire the teachers and let private schools rehire the worthy ones...watch scores soar.

Involuntary taxation pays for the Government to kill people overseas in your name and torture them too.

It also pays to incarcerate people for attempting to own their body or growing a plant, the USA has the highest rate of prisoners by population % of any country

It pays ,thru "farm" subsidies for people not to grow certain crops.

It pays for Homeland Stupidity to feel up our women at airports and violate 4th amendment rights

It pays for snot nosed kids to whine about "their" college money being pulled
while smoking dope on your dime

It causes people to never really "own" their homes, as government has declared them collateral and has an automatic lien on them, without your consent

And yet with all that taxation the bozos have still put you $ 12.5 trillion in debt that they admit to, probably alot more if all of the off the books things were included.

...careful what you wish for when you praise taxation. When people are now on 4th generation welfare, the system is broken.

It does a person no good to get a handout, rather than a hand up. What's stopping you from organizing private charitable efforts ? How many homeless have slept on your couch this past month?
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
tinyTURTLE said:
see, in a different brain, the thought of helping provide education funds by paying your property taxes would engender a sense of pride. you have chosen resentment instead. Somebody's propery taxes paid for your education and mine and pretty much everybody's. Ignorance is not OK, and your taxes help educate people in my country, thank you for helping make the USA a better place.
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Unfortunately you did not get a proper education that enables you to comprehend a simple statement. People who own houses pay more than their fair share. Simple enough for someone who has the ability to take a thought process to the next level.

Because someone like you is a slacker and is unable to provide for themselves and their family, you think it's okay to force others to take care of you. Are you going to tell me that is what you learned in school? Stealing is okay as long as it benefits you?

Oh yes lets please continue to use property taxes to help fund education instead of using a fair tax to pay for it. Someone works all their life to put a roof over their head. No matter how bad it gets you still have a roof over your head right? Nope think again. If you don't pay your property taxes you loose the house. But forcibly taking someones house away from THEM to pay for YOUR education is somehow okay?

A person is on a fixed income and some developer revitalizes the neighborhood. That person gets the boot. No longer able to afford the FORCED higher property taxes on a fixed income (elderly), selling is the only answer. But you think it's okay because YOU are entitled to an education using THEIR money. Using a fair and broad tax base, except for food and medicine, means slackers like you and their family will still get a free ride but, everybody pays and the burden on homeowners is gone.
Stay with me now you're almost there. Keep in mind the size of the government will shrink since there will no longer be a need for the Appraisal Department. Smaller government means less taxes need to be collected from the private sector. That means more money to be circulated and more jobs.

The answer isn't robbing Peter to pay Paul. School is out.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
That's the conservative mantra, "I've got mine, fuck you". They can't see that a society that works, helps everyone to do better. Yes, it is taxes that provide that opportunity for those that are less endowed with fortune. Somehow the conservatives that already have theirs, don't want to help anyone with less. Let's not forget there are millions that have squat. They are on some barely survival mode of government assistance. This country, once the richest on earth, (Not now I fear), should fund everyone that wants a college education, if they can pass the entrance exam, which would be predicated on the national average SAT scores. A country that only rewards the wealthy, Is a country destined for failure. Crank up your history memory and see what Unwarranted wealth and debauchery has wrought. We are well on the way to the end of that path. Government spending on the military and bailing out bankrupt businesses have decimatated the wealth of the average citizen while making the wealthiest even wealthier. A system that is hell bent on policing the world can not survive financially. I believe we have passed the tipping point, and when China starts calling in our loans, the bankruptcy signs may finally wave over Washington.
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lmao Conservatives donate MORE money than liberals. Why don't you open your eyes instead of complaining because YOU stood there and let yourself get bleed to death. The government is taking your money and creating ineffective, bloated agencies and you wonder where your wealth went?

"Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227). -- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood."


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
Another post by Rob Roy which I can only nitpick. The rest I have to agree with.

I will nitpick the statement that home schoolers smoke public education students in most tests. That is true, but do we need to discuss the more crippling social disadvantages that come with home schooling?

My lady and I both want to home school our kids, but simpy can not cripple them socially like that. Again, with you in sentiment 100%, not so much in practice

EDIT - I especially agree with this statement: "...careful what you wish for when you praise taxation."
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
dukeofbaja said:
Another post by Rob Roy which I can only nitpick. The rest I have to agree with.

I will nitpick the statement that home schoolers smoke public education students in most tests. That is true, but do we need to discuss the more crippling social disadvantages that come with home schooling?

My lady and I both want to home school our kids, but simpy can not cripple them socially like that. Again, with you in sentiment 100%, not so much in practice

EDIT - I especially agree with this statement: "...careful what you wish for when you praise taxation."
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It's sort of a 'chicken or egg' argument here, Duke.

I propose that weird home schooled kids would be labeled as weirdos regardless of their school environs.

And it is quite possible that weird home schooled kids are not placed in public education scenarios precisely because they are already weird; either by nature or nurture. Such kids are usually chewed up and spit out in the schoolyard.

Socialization can be accomplished through other means than indoctrination at government schools.

One also must remember that not all home schooled kids turn out to be social outcasts. Many home schooled kids are perfectly normal.
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
Great points. And unlke a few others who post here, I actually understand what you say all the time. No ambiguity and I salute you for that. 'Normal' is in the eye of the beholder, so the chicken and egg scenario here is very true.

Nonetheless, my children will go to public schools, and I will be 'un-indoctrinating' them as need be. I bet I will still feel bad when I have to tell them the true story of Thanksgiving though...

EDIT - Or 'manifest destiny'
 
tinyTURTLE

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Parker said:
Unfortunately you did not get a proper education that enables you to comprehend a simple statement. People who own houses pay more than their fair share. Simple enough for someone who has the ability to take a thought process to the next level.

Because someone like you is a slacker and is unable to provide for themselves and their family, you think it's okay to force others to take care of you. Are you going to tell me that is what you learned in school? Stealing is okay as long as it benefits you?

Oh yes lets please continue to use property taxes to help fund education instead of using a fair tax to pay for it. Someone works all their life to put a roof over their head. No matter how bad it gets you still have a roof over your head right? Nope think again. If you don't pay your property taxes you loose the house. But forcibly taking someones house away from THEM to pay for YOUR education is somehow okay?

A person is on a fixed income and some developer revitalizes the neighborhood. That person gets the boot. No longer able to afford the FORCED higher property taxes on a fixed income (elderly), selling is the only answer. But you think it's okay because YOU are entitled to an education using THEIR money. Using a fair and broad tax base, except for food and medicine, means slackers like you and their family will still get a free ride but, everybody pays and the burden on homeowners is gone.
Stay with me now you're almost there. Keep in mind the size of the government will shrink since there will no longer be a need for the Appraisal Department. Smaller government means less taxes need to be collected from the private sector. That means more money to be circulated and more jobs.

The answer isn't robbing Peter to pay Paul. School is out.
Click to expand...

so, don't pay your taxes. I'm sure your neighbors won't miss you.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
tinyTURTLE said:
so, don't pay your taxes. I'm sure your neighbors won't miss you.
Click to expand...

I'd miss him, he sounds like he'd be a good neighbor. Trust me, there are far worse neighbors out there.

tinyTurtle, I don't quite understand where you are coming from. It seems that you agree "they" will harm you, if you fail to obediently pay the tax they place on your home. Do you condone "them" taking a persons home? Is that just?

Does anyone really own their home, under this system, if an automatic lien is placed on it, with or without the "owners" consent?

I'd really like to hear your thoughts and kindly reply to the questions.
Keep in mind there is a difference between "everybody does it" type RATIONALIZATIONS and REASONS.

Give me reasons to back your beliefs, so I can understand where you're coming from?
 
tinyTURTLE

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I'd miss him, he sounds like he'd be a good neighbor. Trust me, there are far worse neighbors out there.

tinyTurtle, I don't quite understand where you are coming from. It seems that you agree "they" will harm you, if you fail to obediently pay the tax they place on your home. Do you condone "them" taking a persons home? Is that just?

Does anyone really own their home, under this system, if an automatic lien is placed on it, with or without the "owners" consent?

I'd really like to hear your thoughts and kindly reply to the questions.
Keep in mind there is a difference between "everybody does it" type RATIONALIZATIONS and REASONS.

Give me reasons to back your beliefs, so I can understand where you're coming from?
Click to expand...
It's a system we live in, not under. I'm not saying everybody does it, i'm just saying that things ARE the way they ARE for a REASON. PEOPLE who owned HOMES and PROPERTY and BUSINESS long before you came around DECIDED to do things this way. PUBLIC SERVICES are PROVIDED to the COMMUNITY in this way. It isn't an ARBITRARY system that's there to PUNISH people, it is a SYSTEM that people VOTED on in a DEMOCRATIC fashion. IF you disagree so strongly, maybe try to make changes from WITHIN the SYSTEM by TAKING PART in the PROCESS rather than fruitlessly RANTING into CYBERSPACE.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
tinyTURTLE said:
It's a system we live in, not under. I'm not saying everybody does it, i'm just saying that things ARE the way they ARE for a REASON. PEOPLE who owned HOMES and PROPERTY and BUSINESS long before you came around DECIDED to do things this way. PUBLIC SERVICES are PROVIDED to the COMMUNITY in this way. It isn't an ARBITRARY system that's there to PUNISH people, it is a SYSTEM that people VOTED on in a DEMOCRATIC fashion. IF you disagree so strongly, maybe try to make changes from WITHIN the SYSTEM by TAKING PART in the PROCESS rather than fruitlessly RANTING into CYBERSPACE.
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I know you have no way to verify it, but I will say, I AM an activist, both in the system and outside the system, have been for awhile too. I've been elected before and have done all the "send a letter to your Congressman" stuff too. I've spoken at hearings in my State house etc., all of that stuff. As well as participated in and organized multiple out of the system activists events to advance liberty.

In short, I've done alot and will continue to, because I BELIEVE in freedom, for everybody. I also BELIEVE it is not up to me to define how another must live or threaten their property if they don't comply with MY belief.

Did these people that were around "long before my time" have the right to commit somebody else's home? I'd say no, they crossed the line, they made decisions about property that wasn't theirs. That's wrong. No more right than telling me I MUST do charity work or be punished. I elect to do charity work on my own, by the way.

I maintain that a good outcome cannot be justified by a bad method. Using the threat of force to MAKE somebody do anything is inherently evil. The only time force should be applied or threatened is to get somebody that has INITIATED force to stop.

You have essentially said, since we've always done things this way, we should continue it. I disagree. The world is not flat anymore, it's time we realized that.

So when will you answer my questions? Do you condone the initiation of force against otherwise peaceful people?

Are you okay with a peaceful persons home automatically being collateral against their wishes?

Please answer the questions. I've addressed yours.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
The Federal govt. is only designed to provide BASIC necessities like roads and schools.

Everything else is supposed to be accomplished by individual states.

Obama is a nightmare in this regard. Bush was a bad dream, but Obama's a nightmare.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
The Federal govt. is only designed to provide BASIC necessities like roads and schools.

Everything else is supposed to be accomplished by individual states.

Obama is a nightmare in this regard. Bush was a bad dream, but Obama's a nightmare.
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Schools? I thought the feds were out of that in the beginning.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The government started growing out of control the day they started the income tax almost 100 years ago. Give the government 10 times more money than it had before and you can guarantee it will grow too large to be concerned with the citizen anymore and more concerned with its own power. Everything Government does nowadays is to ensure it has more and more control over us, makes sure it controls the most important aspects so that no one can have an alternate way of living.

For tinyturtle, if you like to pay taxes so much, why don't you just give govt 100% of your paycheck and then just submit your whole life to government control? Obviously you believe that Government knows how to run your life better than you do. A patriot does not say the things you do, you are not a patriot in ANY sense of the word, you are a brainwashed and indoctrinated slave. People decided to do away with tyrannical government long long before they ever decided to implement them, by your own logic we should not have the government we have now.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
tinyTURTLE said:
so, don't pay your taxes. I'm sure your neighbors won't miss you.
Click to expand...
They'd miss me because, unlike you, I am a man who takes care of himself and doesn't expect handouts. Maybe someday when you get a career and mature you'll learn about personal responsibility. I don't want to babysit you anymore. Earn a living for yourself without my money.
 
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