If the November bill gets passed, what does that mean for us growers?

gobbly

Well-Known Member
it's illegal to grow plants... C'mon, any improvement is improvement. Keep up the fight.

Anyone know if there are any specific criteria for what would constitute driving under the influence if it becomes as legal as alcohol to consume? Will mouth swabs on the side of the road become common, is there some guideline for measuring how intoxicated someone is by THC? Are these issues even addressed?
 
it seems to me that everyone that is for legalization backs the bill because they'll will have more access to marijuana and think it will be less expensive. just another example of people wanting the government to do something for them that they can't do themselves for what ever reason. Right now we the people control the medical marijuana laws, the patients. Since 1996 has marijuana gotten more expensive or less expensive? You would think cheaper since its become so much easier to obtain a medical marijuana recommendation and hydroponics stores are popping up everywhere to serve the growing number of growers. So way hasn't this effect cause the price to go down? Thats like saying If more people bought soda it would get cheaper, not true cause the person selling the soda still needs to make money
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
it's illegal to grow plants... C'mon, any improvement is improvement. Keep up the fight.

Anyone know if there are any specific criteria for what would constitute driving under the influence if it becomes as legal as alcohol to consume? Will mouth swabs on the side of the road become common, is there some guideline for measuring how intoxicated someone is by THC? Are these issues even addressed?
They'll have to rely on roadside sobriety tests, or at least that's what they do in other states. If you fail the roadside test they give you a piss test, fail that and it's dui drugs.
 

DEPS

Member
It should be the same deal, if you're growing now then you should have nothing to worry about. The charges should be less severe if you DO get caught, which is unlikely. However, I doubt the bill will pass, think of all the innocent Californians who are going to turn it down vs. the stoners... There are a great deal of stoners but not enough to get it done. The only reason medical marijuana was legalized was because half the people who voted didn't evendknow what the fuck Marijuana was, they just read that it could be used for medicinal purposes so they agreed. Think about it. I'll give it a 35% pass at the most so don't even get excited. Californians need to be educated/
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
it seems to me that everyone that is for legalization backs the bill because they'll will have more access to marijuana and think it will be less expensive. just another example of people wanting the government to do something for them that they can't do themselves for what ever reason. Right now we the people control the medical marijuana laws, the patients. Since 1996 has marijuana gotten more expensive or less expensive? You would think cheaper since its become so much easier to obtain a medical marijuana recommendation and hydroponics stores are popping up everywhere to serve the growing number of growers. So way hasn't this effect cause the price to go down? Thats like saying If more people bought soda it would get cheaper, not true cause the person selling the soda still needs to make money
It's not going down because people aren't using their cards right. If everyone that has a card would go assign a caregiver then the legal supply would increase and price would go down as it outweighs demand. The main problem is most people who have a card just do so to avoid the penalty's of getting caught. The only place it's gotten cheaper is the black market. My street dealer will sell me the same shit the dispensary does for half the price, and I know for a fact he's getting it from the same places.

The supply is there it's just unaccounted for. ;)
 
It's not going down because people aren't using their cards right. If everyone that has a card would go assign a caregiver then the legal supply would increase and price would go down as it outweighs demand. The main problem is most people who have a card just do so to avoid the penalty's of getting caught. The only place it's gotten cheaper is the black market. My street dealer will sell me the same shit the dispensary does for half the price, and I know for a fact he's getting it from the same places.

The supply is there it's just unaccounted for. ;)
Wow! thats another good reason not to vote YES, we all admit people don't use their "card" right. The bill on the ballot still has a number of restrictions regulating the use and possession of marijuana, more then the medical laws has now. its a fact that people are gonna abuse the legalize it laws just like they do the medical laws. the only difference is if its legalized its gonna be federally controlled like tobacco. which means that when ever they feel the need to they can change the laws regarding Recreational use of weed. Maybe not making it illegal again, but making more strict laws to control its usage like alcohol. This doesn't mean slaps on the wrist for breaking legalize it laws. This means more fines, larger fines, more tax, and just as much lawyers and jail time.
 
am a medical user... it doesnt have anything to do with access... its morals
I'm a medical user also. Marijuana, it actually is a medicine. Legalizing it for recreational use would be DEMORALIZING the progress we've made getting the laws the way there are now for medicinal purposes. Forward progress? Forward progress means more laws? Open your mind let your conscience be free.
 
The government already has control of every fucking thing else, why the hell would we give them full control over the weed game? If you want to be legal pay a 100 bucks and bam your legal, the laws now are way better for cardholders, if its taken over by the government there gonna do whatever it takes to get there money, dont be nieve people look at cigarettes and alcohol, do we really want mass warehouse production of weed thats sprayed with pesticides and shit to make it even more addicting than it already is, plus imagine the quality, im a weed connoisseur, and i love smoking on some good that i know was well taken care of by a dedicated grower. If it become legal Next thing you know you will be at the gas station buying a pack of cigaweeds because you have to get high not because you want to. I will definitely be voting no in november. and plus im a grower and im trying to get my money boy! call me selfish call me whatever you want but the fact still remains that if it legalized and state controlled the weed game will be fucked for the potheads and we can all say goodbye to this underworld that we all love so much. also you have to think about what its going to do to the education system, weed is already pretty readily available, imagine if it was fully legalized, the access to kids would be ridiculously easy (even more so than it is now). I for one love my weed but i know when my kid comes to the age where hes gonna start experimenting with shit be tough as shit on him when it comes to weed because face it, its a de motivator and it makes you lazy and as parents (at least me) i strive for success in my son, and want him to stay away from all the things that made it tougher for me to really get what i wanted in life. well thats my rant and opinion on this matter i know some of you will completely disagree and some will completely agree, but as i stand i will be voting NO come november to keep the weedgame in the hands of the people not this fucken corrupt system we call a democracy.



VOTE NO THIS NOVEMBER ON THE LEGALIZATION AND GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER OF MARIJUANA AND TELL UNCLE SAM TO TAKE A LONG WALK OFF A SHORT BRIDGE!
 

Weedoozie

Well-Known Member
The government already has control of every fucking thing else, why the hell would we give them full control over the weed game? If you want to be legal pay a 100 bucks and bam your legal, the laws now are way better for cardholders, if its taken over by the government there gonna do whatever it takes to get there money, dont be nieve people look at cigarettes and alcohol, do we really want mass warehouse production of weed thats sprayed with pesticides and shit to make it even more addicting than it already is, plus imagine the quality, im a weed connoisseur, and i love smoking on some good that i know was well taken care of by a dedicated grower. If it become legal Next thing you know you will be at the gas station buying a pack of cigaweeds because you have to get high not because you want to. I will definitely be voting no in november. and plus im a grower and im trying to get my money boy! call me selfish call me whatever you want but the fact still remains that if it legalized and state controlled the weed game will be fucked for the potheads and we can all say goodbye to this underworld that we all love so much. also you have to think about what its going to do to the education system, weed is already pretty readily available, imagine if it was fully legalized, the access to kids would be ridiculously easy (even more so than it is now). I for one love my weed but i know when my kid comes to the age where hes gonna start experimenting with shit be tough as shit on him when it comes to weed because face it, its a de motivator and it makes you lazy and as parents (at least me) i strive for success in my son, and want him to stay away from all the things that made it tougher for me to really get what i wanted in life. well thats my rant and opinion on this matter i know some of you will completely disagree and some will completely agree, but as i stand i will be voting NO come november to keep the weedgame in the hands of the people not this fucken corrupt system we call a democracy.



VOTE NO THIS NOVEMBER ON THE LEGALIZATION AND GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER OF MARIJUANA AND TELL UNCLE SAM TO TAKE A LONG WALK OFF A SHORT BRIDGE!
Excuse me, but I found a few problems with your logic here.

1. People who have smoked "good" weed are not going to smoke shwag intentionally.

2. Though your "cigaweed" idea is a likely scenario, good quality cannabis is always going to be sought after by all stoners, smokers, and tokers. Because of this, the market for bad quality "cigaweed" will not be lucrative in relation to the majority of the consistent cannabis smokers. Also, the legal cannabis market would call for professionals who know the plant entirely which means more jobs for us growers and cannabis connoisseurs which in turn would cause the market to be under the power of people who respect cannabis. Another known trait of large, commercial grow operations is that quality falters because, as we know, the cannabis plant requires specific and detailed attention in order to grow to it's full potential. For these reasons I think the small-scale grows will be more successful, at least until the commercial grows learn how to grow cannabis like experienced cannabis growers do.

3. Cannabis is not physically addictive, only habitually addictive in some people so there is nothing the growers can do to make their product any more addictive. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.
  • United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

  • Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

  • Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

  • Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.
4. Yes, weed is readily available currently. But ask any teen in the US what is easier for them to obtain through purchase, alcohol or marijuana. I'm positive that most of them would say buying marijuana is easier since buying alcohol requires a stores age screening process whereas a dealer would be more likely to sell to whoever has the cash. Therefore, rescheduling cannabis and regulating it would make marijuana as hard to buy as alcohol for underage citizens. So access for the kids wouldn't be easy at all, it would be even harder since the penalties for buying controlled substances for underage people are quite high.

5. I disagree completely in regards to marijuana being a "de motivator" or that it makes you lazy. I'm sure that it all depends on the person. Most people who claim and blame that cannabis is the reason for their laziness or lack of motivation were already like that to begin with, the cannabis is just their scapegoat. Those are the stoners who give all of us a bad name.

6. If you really care that your son be successful in that he stays away from all the things that made it tougher for you to really get what you wanted in life then you should just be honest with him. Tell him straight up your experience when he is ready/old enough and he will most likely learn through your experience so he doesn't have to go through it himself. Lying to him will only make him lose his respect for you and not listen to you when he finds out.

7. You proved you're voting No because you will be losing financially since you are making profits from the black market cannabis economy as is. In my opinion, that does make you selfish so yes, I'm calling you selfish as well as an irresponsible citizen.

8. The constitution says it all, man. I still remember the Preamble word for word from 8th grade: "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and provide blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America."

Just because most of our nations citizens neglect to learn their constitutional rights doesn't mean that we don't have any. The current system works through a judicial branch that is upheld by people who argue with bias. Many of these people use the tact of trying to get their opponents to "forget" and give up their rights in order to get ahead either financially or in relation to power. Think of lawyers, what I just described is a huge part of their job. The original government our founding fathers created has morphed into this mangled mess because we, their posterity, have "forgotten" why they set up the government like they did. Though we made a few good improvements (i.e. Bill of Rights, equality despite gender or ethnic differences, no slavery), we have made some pretty bad mistakes (i.e. Prohibition part 1, Patriot Act, Prohibition part 2).

Even Benjamin Franklin said, "a nation that will give up it's freedom for security deserves neither." So EPIC FAIL, Patriot Act.

It is our responsibility as citizens to fix problems within our nation. If our democracy is being corrupted by a few in power, the population needs to get aware of it because as soon as we do, strong emotions will cause action that in turn will cause change. Its up to us to figure out how to make the change a positive one. This requires time and thought...do we have what it takes or are we just going to let them do whatever they want no matter how it may effect any one else, including the Earth?

Let's stop fucking up for money and fix this shit.
 

Seaghost

Active Member
3. Cannabis is not physically addictive, only habitually addictive in some people so there is nothing the growers can do to make their product any more addictive. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

4. Yes, weed is readily available currently. But ask any teen in the US what is easier for them to obtain through purchase, alcohol or marijuana. I'm positive that most of them would say buying marijuana is easier since buying alcohol requires a stores age screening process whereas a dealer would be more likely to sell to whoever has the cash. Therefore, rescheduling cannabis and regulating it would make marijuana as hard to buy as alcohol for underage citizens. So access for the kids wouldn't be easy at all, it would be even harder since the penalties for buying controlled substances for underage people are quite high.

5. I disagree completely in regards to marijuana being a "de motivator" or that it makes you lazy. I'm sure that it all depends on the person. Most people who claim and blame that cannabis is the reason for their laziness or lack of motivation were already like that to begin with, the cannabis is just their scapegoat. Those are the stoners who give all of us a bad name.

6. If you really care that your son be successful in that he stays away from all the things that made it tougher for you to really get what you wanted in life then you should just be honest with him. Tell him straight up your experience when he is ready/old enough and he will most likely learn through your experience so he doesn't have to go through it himself. Lying to him will only make him lose his respect for you and not listen to you when he finds out.

7. You proved you're voting No because you will be losing financially since you are making profits from the black market cannabis economy as is. In my opinion, that does make you selfish so yes, I'm calling you selfish as well as an irresponsible citizen.

8. The constitution says it all, man. I still remember the Preamble word for word from 8th grade: "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and provide blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America."

Just because most of our nations citizens neglect to learn their constitutional rights doesn't mean that we don't have any. The current system works through a judicial branch that is upheld by people who argue with bias. Many of these people use the tact of trying to get their opponents to "forget" and give up their rights in order to get ahead either financially or in relation to power. Think of lawyers, what I just described is a huge part of their job. The original government our founding fathers created has morphed into this mangled mess because we, their posterity, have "forgotten" why they set up the government like they did. Though we made a few good improvements (i.e. Bill of Rights, equality despite gender or ethnic differences, no slavery), we have made some pretty bad mistakes (i.e. Prohibition part 1, Patriot Act, Prohibition part 2).

Even Benjamin Franklin said, "a nation that will give up it's freedom for security deserves neither." So EPIC FAIL, Patriot Act.

It is our responsibility as citizens to fix problems within our nation. If our democracy is being corrupted by a few in power, the population needs to get aware of it because as soon as we do, strong emotions will cause action that in turn will cause change. Its up to us to figure out how to make the change a positive one. This requires time and thought...do we have what it takes or are we just going to let them do whatever they want no matter how it may effect any one else, including the Earth?

Let's stop fucking up for money and fix this shit.
I agree myself with your points, very succinct and to the point, bravo!! That quote from old Ben hits the spot also, I wish that more peeps would read the constitution and learn it, it is the FRAMEWORK of our county.

That's one of the major issues IMO today is that schools really do not teach these very basic tenets and ideals that this country was founded on. Remember, all of our forefathers whether original settlers from England or immigrants from other countries came here for a reason, whether it was to escape tyranny or other issues.

As always, peace out :weed:
 

Weedoozie

Well-Known Member
I agree myself with your points, very succinct and to the point, bravo!! That quote from old Ben hits the spot also, I wish that more peeps would read the constitution and learn it, it is the FRAMEWORK of our county.

That's one of the major issues IMO today is that schools really do not teach these very basic tenets and ideals that this country was founded on. Remember, all of our forefathers whether original settlers from England or immigrants from other countries came here for a reason, whether it was to escape tyranny or other issues.

As always, peace out :weed:
Thank you!
I was afraid I may have typed too much for the average RIU person so I'm very happy someone read it :)
Yes, I agree that if more people knew the constitution from being taught in school, our country would be better off. IMO, reform is necessary in this case.
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
Excuse me, but I found a few problems with your logic here.

1. People who have smoked "good" weed are not going to smoke shwag intentionally.

2. Though your "cigaweed" idea is a likely scenario, good quality cannabis is always going to be sought after by all stoners, smokers, and tokers. Because of this, the market for bad quality "cigaweed" will not be lucrative in relation to the majority of the consistent cannabis smokers. Also, the legal cannabis market would call for professionals who know the plant entirely which means more jobs for us growers and cannabis connoisseurs which in turn would cause the market to be under the power of people who respect cannabis. Another known trait of large, commercial grow operations is that quality falters because, as we know, the cannabis plant requires specific and detailed attention in order to grow to it's full potential. For these reasons I think the small-scale grows will be more successful, at least until the commercial grows learn how to grow cannabis like experienced cannabis growers do.

3. Cannabis is not physically addictive, only habitually addictive in some people so there is nothing the growers can do to make their product any more addictive. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

  • United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.



  • Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.



  • Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.



  • Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

4. Yes, weed is readily available currently. But ask any teen in the US what is easier for them to obtain through purchase, alcohol or marijuana. I'm positive that most of them would say buying marijuana is easier since buying alcohol requires a stores age screening process whereas a dealer would be more likely to sell to whoever has the cash. Therefore, rescheduling cannabis and regulating it would make marijuana as hard to buy as alcohol for underage citizens. So access for the kids wouldn't be easy at all, it would be even harder since the penalties for buying controlled substances for underage people are quite high.

5. I disagree completely in regards to marijuana being a "de motivator" or that it makes you lazy. I'm sure that it all depends on the person. Most people who claim and blame that cannabis is the reason for their laziness or lack of motivation were already like that to begin with, the cannabis is just their scapegoat. Those are the stoners who give all of us a bad name.

6. If you really care that your son be successful in that he stays away from all the things that made it tougher for you to really get what you wanted in life then you should just be honest with him. Tell him straight up your experience when he is ready/old enough and he will most likely learn through your experience so he doesn't have to go through it himself. Lying to him will only make him lose his respect for you and not listen to you when he finds out.

7. You proved you're voting No because you will be losing financially since you are making profits from the black market cannabis economy as is. In my opinion, that does make you selfish so yes, I'm calling you selfish as well as an irresponsible citizen.

8. The constitution says it all, man. I still remember the Preamble word for word from 8th grade: "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and provide blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America."

Just because most of our nations citizens neglect to learn their constitutional rights doesn't mean that we don't have any. The current system works through a judicial branch that is upheld by people who argue with bias. Many of these people use the tact of trying to get their opponents to "forget" and give up their rights in order to get ahead either financially or in relation to power. Think of lawyers, what I just described is a huge part of their job. The original government our founding fathers created has morphed into this mangled mess because we, their posterity, have "forgotten" why they set up the government like they did. Though we made a few good improvements (i.e. Bill of Rights, equality despite gender or ethnic differences, no slavery), we have made some pretty bad mistakes (i.e. Prohibition part 1, Patriot Act, Prohibition part 2).

Even Benjamin Franklin said, "a nation that will give up it's freedom for security deserves neither." So EPIC FAIL, Patriot Act.

It is our responsibility as citizens to fix problems within our nation. If our democracy is being corrupted by a few in power, the population needs to get aware of it because as soon as we do, strong emotions will cause action that in turn will cause change. Its up to us to figure out how to make the change a positive one. This requires time and thought...do we have what it takes or are we just going to let them do whatever they want no matter how it may effect any one else, including the Earth?

Let's stop fucking up for money and fix this shit.
Well there's another major failure in this country, and that was the double-taxation of tobacco so the states could get rich. First by the federal government, then by the states, then again in sales tax. We left England to stop double taxing and then here we are. This bill is another fine example of that.
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
and if this doesn't say it all right here. Nothing does. This is the first listing on google for tobacco taxes. Left-wingers still want to say this is about stopping smoking, saving lives, and funding healthcare? It's about building bridges and blowing smoke up your ass.

Tobacco Taxes: A Win-Win-Win for Cash Strapped States

Feb 10, 2010 ... Increasing Tobacco Taxes is a Win-Win-Win for Cash-Strapped States. See how your state can benefit at tobaccofreekids.org/winwinwin.
www.[B]tobacco[/B]freekids.org/winwinwin/ - Cached - Similar
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Well there's another major failure in this country, and that was the double-taxation of tobacco so the states could get rich. First by the federal government, then by the states, then again in sales tax. We left England to stop double taxing and then here we are. This bill is another fine example of that.
Actually this proposition is not double taxing anything.
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
Actually it is. There will be state taxes, excise taxes, local taxes, and sales taxes. Then if this gets rescheduled it will be taxed federally as well. Hell that's worse than tobacco and this is supposed to be safer?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
5. I disagree completely in regards to marijuana being a "de motivator" or that it makes you lazy. I'm sure that it all depends on the person. Most people who claim and blame that cannabis is the reason for their laziness or lack of motivation were already like that to begin with, the cannabis is just their scapegoat. Those are the stoners who give all of us a bad name.
It's only a de-motivator in certain people, such as myself. I'm sure we all know people who wake and bake and go about their day just fine. I've found it's quite simple to get around that though. Only smoke when you have nothing important to do. It's not complicated.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Actually it is. There will be state taxes, excise taxes, local taxes, and sales taxes. Then if this gets rescheduled it will be taxed federally as well. Hell that's worse than tobacco and this is supposed to be safer?
well I guess you could say that about just about anything. Should we make everything illegal then?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
VOTE NO THIS NOVEMBER ON THE LEGALIZATION AND GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER OF MARIJUANA AND TELL UNCLE SAM TO TAKE A LONG WALK OFF A SHORT BRIDGE!
This is NOT a government take over of cannabis. Sure there are rules imposed, but that's not a whole lot different than anything else. The government regulates food, does that mean there has been a government take over of food? Should we make food illegal to prevent the government from "controlling" it?

The idea that we should continue prohibition because there might be regulations on it is as ridiculous as what I just said above. This proposition dramatically decreases the amount of control the government has on cannabis. Right now it is illegal to recreationally use cannabis at all. To claim that ending prohibition increases government regulation is an absurd argument. Prohibition itself is the highest level of government control there is.

I'm still seeing way too many peoples philosophical ideas about how things should be getting in the way of how things could be realistically. So many people voting against an end to prohibition because the ballot measure isn't perfect. I'd like to ask everyone who feels that way one question. Where is the perfect legalization bill you wrote on the ballot?

Just remember. If you're voting against this bill then you're agreeing with the cops to continue prohibition. It's that simple.
 
Top