I'm in desperate need of help!

Hi guys,

This is the first time in my growing experience when I'm dealing with something I can't seem to wrap my head around what it is and it's making me crazy.

I have 5 grows under my belt and other than some Mg deficiencies, Phosphorus def's and some nute burns, I haven't had any problems.

I've been always using Biobizz AllMix as a medium and their organic nute line.

I did 2 White Widow grows, 1 Northern Lights, 1 Purple kush auto grow, and 1 Auto Ak 47 grow and all of them were really great. The WW grows were the best as a got 600grams of both of them in a 4x4ft tent with a 600wHps.

After the last grow I changed apartments and I wanted to start another grow. I germinated another batch of 12 WW Royal Queen Seeds and 3 CBD Auto seeds(local breeder but good genetics).They germinated well and I planted them all in small 4 ounce pot with some Biobizz Allmix. They all sprouted within a couple of days and were under a 250wMH light at a 20inch distance. I've been watering them with 2 ounces R.O water every 2 or 3 days.

I'm storing my soil bags in the same room as the grow tent and one day I started noticing fungus gnats roaming around my soil bags so I put up some yellow sticky traps. They are doing the jobs but I can't seem to get rid of them completely.

Fearing that my soil could have larvae in it, I filled my 27 ounce pots that I was going to transplat to, and left them in the grow tent to dry out completely before transplanting which they did.

After 10 days in the small pots, I transplanted all the plants in the larger 27ounce pots, sprinkling some mychorizae on the root zones before potting. I then wattered all the plants with 10ounces of R.O water each mixed with 0.5ml Aptus Soil Attack, 1ml/L Root Juice, 1ml/L BioHeaven, and 1ml/L Acti-vera. Very mild nute combo in my experience which I use only use once with transplant at such an early stage (first time using Soil Attack due to fear of gnat larvae).

Six days after the transplant and this how my plants are looking.

The CBD auto's started showing burnt leaf edges, leaf tips are curling under, growth rate slowed down and new growth is spindly and looks weak. I forgot to mention that the CBD seeds were germinated first so they are 4 days ahead of the WW's. This means that the CBD plants are 16 days old and the WW's are only 12 days old.

The WW's were growing kind of slow from the begining and some of them are starting to develop the same condition as the CBD's.

NOTE: This is actually my 3rd attempt at the new place to grow and all of the previous attempts were stopped due to the same symptomps. At some point all the leafs seem to burn and continue to curl under and the plants seem to stop developing altoghether. I've bought new soil everytime but everytime I get gnats in the rooms where I store my soil bags(same room as my grow tent). I usually don't get any gnat adults in my tent but when I did get 1 or 2 in the tent they got trapped on the sticky traps.

I don't seem to be able to catch a break and I'm getting very frustrated as I love growing but don't get to do it due to this freaking thing which I don't know what's causing it.

Anyone got some imput?

P.S: The bigger plants are the Auto CBD's.

That sucks man. I've been using he same FFOF for 10 months and haven't seen 1 fungus gnat. I have seen predatory mites roaming when i let the soil stay too moist, but they seek and destroy gnat larvae and other bad stuff. I do give them EWC tea sometimes and that has a lot of microbes, and maybe the mites came from there. Also I only use organic nutes to keep the micro life happy, and never adjust ph. I just let the microbes in the soil buffer the ph for me. So far so good

But it sounds like they might be breeding in you soil bags. Especially if they're stored in your grow room with the warmer temps. Did you first notice gnats after storing the soil bags in the grow room?

Buy different soil that doesn't come with free gnats. Make sure any bags you buy are well sealed with no tears where gnats can lay eggs while the bags sit around waiting to be sold.

They look like they are burning a bit but that small one with the yellow leave looks like it's starving. Could be the gnat larva eating all the root tips in there so it can't get nutes.

You should have sticky traps in damn near every pot to get as may of the adults as you can.

Get some DE and mix it into the top of the soil and water from the bottom to keep the top dry. That and sticky traps should get them under control. And keep the bags out in the shed or at least far away from the plants.

Better than mites but still a PITA.

Good luck!

OldMedUser said:

Buy different soil that doesn't come with free gnats. Make sure any bags you buy are well sealed with no tears where gnats can lay eggs while the bags sit around waiting to be sold.

They look like they are burning a bit but that small one with the yellow leave looks like it's starving. Could be the gnat larva eating all the root tips in there so it can't get nutes.

You should have sticky traps in damn near every pot to get as may of the adults as you can.

Get some DE and mix it into the top of the soil and water from the bottom to keep the top dry. That and sticky traps should get them under control. And keep the bags out in the shed or at least far away from the plants.

Better than mites but still a PITA.

Good luck!

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I agree with what your saying, but my mites are beneficial predatory mites that kill all kinds of stuff besides just gnat larvae. They're not the mites you don't want. And ya like OldMedUser said, keep the soil out of the grow room and in a cooler environment like the shed. And you may want to start with fresh soil. I don't know if I'd trust the stuff in the bags you have now.

I don’t think the growth problem is gnat related. If it were you would have a lot more on the traps that one or two. You could Coat the soil surface with Diatomaceous earth Freeze the mix if you have the ability. Change mixes for sure. I agree with Padawan and have never seen gnats in FFOF.

Are you sure those pots have good drainage? I would transplant all to proper nursery cans, smart pots, bags.

You say this is the third attempt? Did the previous plants die completely? Any pics of them near death?

Merlin1147 said:

I don’t think the growth problem is gnat related. If it were you would have a lot more on the traps that one or two. You could Coat the soil surface with Diatomaceous earth Freeze the mix if you have the ability. Change mixes for sure. I agree with Padawan and have never seen gnats in FFOF.

Are you sure those pots have good drainage? I would transplant all to proper nursery cans, smart pots, bags.

You say this is the third attempt? Did the previous plants die completely? Any pics of them near death?

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The pots have good drainage as I've put a layer of keramizit on the bottom. Also, the soil wasn't compactated in the pots and I've let it dry completely before transplating.

The first time I had this problem is when I first moved some auto's from the old place (they were 1 month old and they were starting to flower) to the new place. I was keeping the soil at the old place and there were no gnats and the plants were doing just fine.

Once I moved them to the new place, in about 1 week the plants starting developing the same issues. The second weekend the development of the plants completely stopped. Over the third week they started looking more burnt and all the leaves were drooping and crawling under. I considered them dead. Unfortunately, I didn't keep photo logs of this.

One more thing I'm thinking about is this:
The new place is an apartment building and I live at ground level. Under all my windows there are some vents for the basement of the building. Everyother day I get a funky smell in my bathroom and a sewege fly 'invasion' (those little black flies).

Could it be some air born pathogen, virus, fungae that is coming from the basement and I'm pulling into my grow room with my extractor?

Also, interesting fact, this also happens about 2 weeks after the plants are moved into the apartment, or since they sprout in the apartment. As I mentioned, I previously sprouted and kept the plants at the older place for up to a month and 2 weeks after I brought them to the new place, this sh*t started.

OldMedUser said:

Buy different soil that doesn't come with free gnats. Make sure any bags you buy are well sealed with no tears where gnats can lay eggs while the bags sit around waiting to be sold.

They look like they are burning a bit but that small one with the yellow leave looks like it's starving. Could be the gnat larva eating all the root tips in there so it can't get nutes.

You should have sticky traps in damn near every pot to get as may of the adults as you can.

Get some DE and mix it into the top of the soil and water from the bottom to keep the top dry. That and sticky traps should get them under control. And keep the bags out in the shed or at least far away from the plants.

Better than mites but still a PITA.

Good luck!

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Unfortunately, I can't verify how the soil is stored by the vendor.


Question: Let's say that the soil is clean and that there are no free gnats in it. Should I seal the bags and keep them airtight, should I store them without sealing keeping them in an upright position to alow the soil to breath or should I lay them down on the floor? Doesn't seeling the bags keep the moisture in them and could cause it to mold?

PadawanWarrior said:

That sucks man. I've been using he same FFOF for 10 months and haven't seen 1 fungus gnat. I have seen predatory mites roaming when i let the soil stay too moist, but they seek and destroy gnat larvae and other bad stuff. I do give them EWC tea sometimes and that has a lot of microbes, and maybe the mites came from there. Also I only use organic nutes to keep the micro life happy, and never adjust ph. I just let the microbes in the soil buffer the ph for me. So far so good

But it sounds like they might be breeding in you soil bags. Especially if they're stored in your grow room with the warmer temps. Did you first notice gnats after storing the soil bags in the grow room?

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No mites whatsoever.

I've seen a couple of them roaming around even before bringing the bags in and it got worse as time passed.

shrooms31 said:

Everyother day I get a funky smell in my bathroom and a sewege fly 'invasion' (those little black flies).

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This sure is a puzzle. So of course I had to go google methane, sulfur dioxide and other sewer gas damage on plants. Maybe. How about an in-line carbon filter on the intake. Phresh makes one I made the mistake and bought one once thinking it was for odor control. Much lighter and cheaper.

shrooms31 said:

Unfortunately, I can't verify how the soil is stored by the vendor.


Question: Let's say that the soil is clean and that there are no free gnats in it. Should I seal the bags and keep them airtight, should I store them without sealing keeping them in an upright position to alow the soil to breath or should I lay them down on the floor? Doesn't seeling the bags keep the moisture in them and could cause it to mold?

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The bags come sealed so you should seal them up after opening to keep it moist. Some bags of soil may not get sold for a few years, freeze every winter and thaw every spring.

shrooms31 said:

Everyother day I get a funky smell in my bathroom and a sewege fly 'invasion' (those little black flies).

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There's your source I bet.

I had gnat problems when I first bought this place 17 years ago. The grow room in the basement had an opening under the stairs beside it to get access to the sump pump. Tried everything to get rid of those little pricks for the first few years to no avail. I finally noticed that the sticky traps closest to that sump always got a lot more adult gnats stuck to them than the others. I hung one in the sump hole and by the next day it was damn near black with them. They were breeding in the f'n sump!

I made a cover out of chipboard and cut some holes for louvered vents I got at the local farm/building supply. They have window screen on the back of them but gnats can get thru that so I added anti static wipes taped on the back of them. Cut a big hole and covered that with heavy clear plastic so I could look in and see the sump in case the pump died. Got that at the hardware store where they sell it by the foot as picnic table plastic. I put door sealing strip all around the edge and small screws to hold it in place. No more gnat problems once I got rid of the ones in the room with traps and DE.

All the air to my grow room comes thru those vents and the two in the pic weren't enough so added two more since and need to cut more wood from the bottom step to allow better air flow to get under there.

It got all ugly at the bottom from a flood we had one spring about 6 years back when I had 8" of water in the basement.





I would cover your vents with something to keep any bugs from getting thru. Double layer of cheesecloth or even a towel should do it. Sounds nasty having that happen and I'd be demanding a rent reduction at least tho you probably don't want inspectors wandering around in there.

Good luck.

One harmless thing that works as general pest control is nicotine water. I grow tobacco and boil a few leaves and spray it on plants. I don't know how it would work with nats specifically but it generally makes pests go somewhere else. It doesn't have to be homegrown tobacco. Anything will do.

@OldMedUser

Both of the places are mine so rent free fortunately.

The building administrator called in a dezinsection last month and they sprayed the basement of the building but to no avail.

I'm going to buy another bag of soil from another vendor and store it at the other place. I'm also going to sprout some seeds this week and start a trail run there. I have a medium sized cabinet with a diy CFL light rig that I'm going to use for the first two weeks and then put up a tent if all goes well.

The soil bags that I have, have been already sent off to a farm. The guys there are going to spread it on a black tarp and keep it in the sun a few days. Will do a trail run there aswell with that soil just to see if drying the soil (which I previously did before transplanting), is enough to kill the larvae. If I rule this out, then there's surely something wrong with the gases that come from the basement of the building. Maybe it's not the gases but some airborne pathogen. Can't really tell.

Imagine that the vent is right under the window to my grow room and if I get close to it from outside I can really feel the air coming out of the basement with quite alot of power. Then, ofcourse, it gets drawn right into my grow room.

The building's basement does have a history of leaking pipes and even broken sewage pipes which flooded the basement.

Also lived at ground level at the other place but i know for sure that that basement is dry and it's sprayed with dezinsectants and dezinfectants every two months.

I will water with some hydrogen peroxide tomorrow as the soil is getting dry about 2-3 inches down. I know I shouldn't due to the fact that I grow organic but I consider this run another fail and I want to rule out the gnats.

shrooms31 said:

I will water with some hydrogen peroxide tomorrow as the soil is getting dry about 2-3 inches down. I know I shouldn't due to the fact that I grow organic but I consider this run another fail and I want to rule out the gnats.

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Peroxide is just water with an extra oxygen molecule so it won't violate any organic rules and breaks down to just water again with no residue of any kind. As long as you're using food grade peroxide and not the 3 - 10% stuff you can get at drug stores. Those have preservatives in them to keep the peroxide from breaking down.

Mixed reviews about the effectiveness of peroxide killing off gnats. Works kind of like chemo that way. Kills the bad stuff if strong enough but there's collateral damage done to healthy tissue as well.

Good luck with those little buggers!

@OldMedUser

Thanks for the imput man. I really appreciate it!

Can't wait for the trail run as I feel like I've been deprived of a thing that's very important to me..growing.

Happy growing and good thoughts!

Gnatrol is the only way to go.... I get it pretty cheap from a guy on EBAY. They do ship International.
https://www.gnatrol.com/

Jypsy Dog said:

Gnatrol is the only way to go.... I get it pretty cheap from a guy on EBAY. They do ship International.
https://www.gnatrol.com/

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Looks like good stuff. Wonder how much I'd need to treat my 80x50 meter dugout to kill all the damn mosquitoes.

Too much I'm sure.

Again

shrooms31 said:

in about 1 week the plants starting developing the same issues.

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its not fungus gnats causing the problem. Look elsewhere. If it were you would be catching 100s on the traps not 1 or 2 and you would have had the symptoms in the old location. If they got infested in the new location it would have taken longer for the damage to show up.

imo gnats aren't a big deal and not causing your problem. If larvae was affecting your roots you'd have sticky traps covered in gnats. i've had them a couple times and they go away with sticky traps and letting the soil dry out.

personally, i think your pots are just small. i go to 3 gallons when plants are smaller than that. easier to over/under feed/water when pots are too small.

shrooms31 said:

there's surely something wrong with the gases that come from the basement of the building.

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Ya think? I would get it fixed for your own sake if not for the plants. You wasting your time worrying about the gnats in this acute situation. Everything you’ve posted about your situation points to something in the location causing the problem.

microbes are your friend