In America today, who has it worse?

darrellduaner

Active Member
if you believe in god, how come you look both ways when crossing the street?
if you believe in god, how come you go to the doctor?
if you believe in god, why are you not happy when a loved one dies? did you think they were going to hell?
if you believe in god, why are you such a PRICK!?
if you believe in god, why dont you kill your children before they get a chance to be corrupted by the world?
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
if you believe in god, how come you look both ways when crossing the street?
if you believe in god, how come you go to the doctor?
if you believe in god, why are you not happy when a loved one dies? did you think they were going to hell?
if you believe in god, why are you such a PRICK!?
if you believe in god, why dont you kill your children before they get a chance to be corrupted by the world?
God offers free will.

I actually think that the best religious based proof of the nonexistent God is the religious claim of the existence of the Devil.

If God is all powerful and has destroyed large swathes of humanity for being evil then surely God would destroy the Devil.

If the Devil is powerful enough to escape God's wrath then God is not God.
 

darrellduaner

Active Member
God offers free will.

I actually think that the best religious based proof of the nonexistent God is the religious claim of the existence of the Devil.

If God is all powerful and has destroyed large swathes of humanity for being evil then surely God would destroy the Devil.

If the Devil is powerful enough to escape God's wrath then God is not God.
i thought god had a plan and is omniscient. besides, arent we in this shitty mess because god wants the devil to be proven wrong? idk shit i was trolling more or less
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
I've had a few spirited debates with some on this forum that homosexuals have a bit of relief to the discrimination they face because their sexuality isn't able to be known without their disclosure.

This is true, I do not wish to rehash if it is good or not.

But that has gotten me to thinking. Another group that faces discrimination in this country is atheists.

We have no (to my knowledge) atheists in either branch of the legislature, none on the highest court, and the idea of an atheist being able to be elected president is laughable.

I think many conservative Republicans would sooner vote for Obama than someone who is an atheist, at least Muslims believe in a God, is what they undoubtedly would say.

I'm sure some localities and probably state government's have elected officials who are atheists.

It seems most of you here are atheists, and i put myself there as well.

How come we never talk about that?
Poor white trash like me
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
Then I must
Shit, white trash has it made.

State paid health care, food stamps, WIC, and subsidized housing in rural areas is pretty nice.
Then I must not be poor white trash cause I have none of that...what's a WIC ?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Shit, white trash has it made.

State paid health care, food stamps, WIC, and subsidized housing in rural areas is pretty nice.

It's funny how people use euphemisms eh? The State does not pay for those things, the people that the state steal the money from do.

This(forced redistribution) is not done out of compassion, it is a calculated way to maintain control and manipulate.
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
It's funny how people use euphemisms eh? The State does not pay for those things, the people that the state steal the money from do.

This(forced redistribution) is not done out of compassion, it is a calculated way to maintain control and manipulate.
The state is going to take the money regardless.

If i take money from you it is my money now. Same with the state.

That's like saying Bill Gates doesn't have any money, all "his" billions are really just the funds of Windows users.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The state is going to take the money regardless.

If i take money from you it is my money now. Same with the state.

That's like saying Bill Gates doesn't have any money, all "his" billions are really just the funds of Windows users.

Not really. So a murderer is going to murder anyway and then it magically becomes, "not murder" ?

Bill Gates benefits from coercive government protectionism, but that aside, I'd say most people purchase his software out of some form of an agreed to purchase rather than an edict backed by "or else".

Why do you excuse acts that the state does, when you or I would be criminals for doing the same thing?
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
Why do you excuse acts that the state does, when you or I would be criminals for doing the same thing?
When you steal from me you are going to use the windfall for entirely self interested purposes.

When the state takes money from me through taxation I will concede that they are going to spend the money on some things I do not agree with.

But they are also going to spend some of the money on roads and schools and services that, though possibly wasteful and possibly corrupt to some degree, it does not serve the interests of just one person and I am not without benefit from it to some extent.

Personal theft leave the victim 100% worse off and 0% better.

The tax payer at least gets a say in the matter and gets some benefit.

Apples and oranges, the comparison on it's face is absurd.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The State does not pay for those things, the people that the state steal the money from do.
how can it be stealing when the people they took it from had to consent first?

woops, forgot you were a mentally retarded child for a second there.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Some laws are based in restituting a real victim of a real crime, wherein the victim suffered a loss.

Many more laws are based in arbitrary acts of control over others by a parasitic and / or ruling class or their minions.
Wherein the victim's property rights are effected (including their body).

That is how law is supposed to work, but as you say, it got fucked in the ass long ago.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
When you steal from me you are going to use the windfall for entirely self interested purposes.

When the state takes money from me through taxation I will concede that they are going to spend the money on some things I do not agree with.

But they are also going to spend some of the money on roads and schools and services that, though possibly wasteful and possibly corrupt to some degree, it does not serve the interests of just one person and I am not without benefit from it to some extent.

Personal theft leave the victim 100% worse off and 0% better.

The tax payer at least gets a say in the matter and gets some benefit.

Apples and oranges, the comparison on it's face is absurd.
The comparison is accurate. You are wrong, both logically and morally.
What is absurd is the way people have been trained to excuse theft by some people while condemning theft by others.

What you have done is put forth a utilitarian argument to attempt to justify a kind of behavior (the theft backed by force) that is somehow wrong when some people do it and right when others do it, which is of course absurd.

The deceit is obvious, your cognitive dissonance is strong Luke. (Darth Vader voice)

Even if the state sometimes uses the proceeds of a theft to do things that people value or things that are "good", it is irrelevant.

IF the actions taken by the thief after the theft were somehow a justification of the theft, that would mean you or I could steal all of Uncle Bucks Gerbils, stand out in front of Wendy's and give them away to poor kids who'd love a pet. The smiling faces of the poor kids petting "their" new gerbils, doesn't make the gerbils no longer Uncle Bucks gerbils. They still belong to him as the rightful owner even if by stealing them from him, you've somehow made somebody else happier. The only way you can transfer ownership of something in a logical and morally valid way is thru a voluntary transfer AGREED TO BY BOTH parties.

Any goods and services that are derived thru theft cannot be justified as the means is corrupt. Besides in a free market (the real kind, not the crony bullshit kind of free market) you can have the goods and services that people want, without the theft. So why tolerate theft and call it something else when your master does it slave?
 
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londonfog

Well-Known Member
The comparison is accurate. You are wrong, both logically and morally.
What is absurd is the way people have been trained to excuse theft by some people while condemning theft by others.

What you have done is put forth a utilitarian argument to attempt to justify a kind of behavior (the theft backed by force) that is somehow wrong when some people do it and right when others do it, which is of course absurd.

The deceit is obvious, your cognitive dissonance is strong Luke. (Darth Vader voice)

Even if the state sometimes uses the proceeds of a theft to do things that people value or things that are "good", it is irrelevant.

IF the actions taken by the thief after the theft were somehow a justification of the theft, that would mean you or I could steal all of Uncle Bucks Gerbils, stand out in front of Wendy's and give them away to poor kids who'd love a pet. The smiling faces of the poor kids petting "their" new gerbils, doesn't make the gerbils no longer Uncle Bucks gerbils. They still belong to him as the rightful owner even if by stealing them from him, you've somehow made somebody else happier. The only way you can transfer ownership of something in a logical and morally valid way is thru a voluntary transfer AGREED TO BY BOTH parties.

Any goods and services that are derived thru theft cannot be justified as the means is corrupt. Besides in a free market (the real kind, not the crony bullshit kind of free market) you can have the goods and services that people want, without the theft. So why tolerate theft and call it something else when your master does it slave?
you sure have a thing with gerbils. Scary shit
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
The comparison is accurate. You are wrong, both logically and morally.
What is absurd is the way people have been trained to excuse theft by some people while condemning theft by others.

What you have done is put forth a utilitarian argument to attempt to justify a kind of behavior (the theft backed by force) that is somehow wrong when some people do it and right when others do it, which is of course absurd.

The deceit is obvious, your cognitive dissonance is strong Luke. (Darth Vader voice)

Even if the state sometimes uses the proceeds of a theft to do things that people value or things that are "good", it is irrelevant.

IF the actions taken by the thief after the theft were somehow a justification of the theft, that would mean you or I could steal all of Uncle Bucks Gerbils, stand out in front of Wendy's and give them away to poor kids who'd love a pet. The smiling faces of the poor kids petting "their" new gerbils, doesn't make the gerbils no longer Uncle Bucks gerbils. They still belong to him as the rightful owner even if by stealing them from him, you've somehow made somebody else happier. The only way you can transfer ownership of something in a logical and morally valid way is thru a voluntary transfer AGREED TO BY BOTH parties.

Any goods and services that are derived thru theft cannot be justified as the means is corrupt. Besides in a free market (the real kind, not the crony bullshit kind of free market) you can have the goods and services that people want, without the theft. So why tolerate theft and call it something else when your master does it slave?
You're correct. The only problem is that a country could not function if it was only financed through voluntary contributions.

So we couldn't have roads, schools, military, and all sorts of other things that society needs but no one or group would build due to lack of profit motive.

The sad thing is there is no place for folks like you to go and live in the "state of nature."

Perhaps it is worth it, Rob, because it has existed in fairly recent times and people put in a government every time.
 
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