In-ground soil preparation

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FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
I grow outside in the ground organically. This upcoming season will be my third outdoor grow in the same space. Over the last two, years, I have been amending the soil and hopefully improving each time. I continue to research looking for ideas or methods I should incorporate into soil improvement.

The soil on my property is hard clay about three feet down and then sandy. I’ve been using a pick axe, shovel and a soil ripper to break up and amend the soil to maybe 12” deep. (I bought an electric cultivator/tiller this year.). When I transplant, I dig about a 18” deep hole that’s around 12” wide and fill with Royal Gold Mendo Mix mixed with my amended soil. My thinking was that this will help the plant better transition to its new environment.

I’ve recently read several posts on RIU where folks are digging 3’ deep by 2’+ wide holes and filling it with super soil or equivalent. I thought my method of amending the whole area was typical, but now I’m questioning that assumption. To be honest, I really don’t want to dig a bunch of three feet deep holes and have to R&R the soil every year. I was hoping that I could just supplement the existing soil each year with composted manure, guano, worm casings, blood meal, bonemeal, etc and avoid soil replacement.

I’m wondering if I can get good grows if I were to break up and amend my soil down to 18” and dig 24” deep by 12” wide holes when transplanting the girls outside.

I’m looking for input and advice regarding what I’m proposing to do versus digging the bigger deeper holes and filling with super soil.

I’ve included pics from last year’s grow.


Thanks!

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NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
I grow organically in the ground too. This was my first year but it went very well.

My approach was to test my native soil and amend as needed. I ended up digging 3' diameter holes about 18" deep and backfilling with composted cow manure mixed with the native soil plus a few amendments.

The seedlings were transplanted in early June, they were planted in Coast of Maine Stonington Blend soil.

Results were excellent. I fed them compost tea regularly and topdressed here and there. Ended up with 10 foot plants.

Plan for next year is to use the same soil so no digging. Will add nutrients as needed and will test soil this winter to see what it needs.

If you're having success with your method then I wouldn't necessarily dig and backfill 3' deep planting holes. Only the tap root will go that far down anyway--most of the roots are within the yop foot or so
You can just add amendments and rake/water in.

Have you tested your soil?

One school of thought is it's better not to be disturbing the soil too much by digging. I think this is true--if your goal is to nurture a rich living soil teeming with healthy micro-organisms.
 
F

FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the feedback and information. It was very helpful.

I haven’t tested ever tested my soil. I’ll have to do that. I’m planning to add composted manure in a few days, something I haven’t done previously. Should I wait to have the soil tested sometime after adding the manure (~Feb/March) or before adding?

Interesting thought on not digging the soil, cause it is my goal to have a rich living soil. Unfortunately for this year, I’ve already run my cultivator through the soil.

Again, thanks for the great info!

David
 
NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
I would test first. Be sure to get several samples and combine the soil so you get a good average.

While it certainly wouldn't hurt to add composted manure now, it might be more beneficial to wait until next spring.

Then once you have your soil test results you can adjust pH, add any needed macro and micro nutrients.

The "no-till" philosophy basically holds that digging/tilling disturbs the soil structure, so you just layer stuff on top. I'm sure a little aeration wouldn't hurt though if you want to help get your amendments down into the soil, or just rake and water them in.

You have good worm action in there? If not you may want to introduce some in the spring. They're great for aeration and eating/digesting various goodies in the soil and making the nutrients readily available to the plant roots.

And read up on compost tea--my plants thrived on that stuff. I kept it pretty simple--mostly just composted cow manure with a few additional things added at certain times like humic acid, kelp meal, molasses, fish bone meal (heading into bloom phase).

I'm no expert--still learning lots, but was encouraged with first-time results and aim to do even better next year.
 
Freedom seed

Freedom seed

Well-Known Member
Just a few thoughts on growing in the ground:

Digging a hole the size of a bus and filling it with branded potting soil from a big box store makes great groundhog habitat.

Raised beds may be warmer in the spring but the ground is warmer in the fall.

In sand, top dress your organics. In clay work them in with a shovel. Ammend whatever diameter you want the finished plants to be. If you want plants 6’ in diameter, then do 6’ circles. A rotortiller destroys soil

Let the roots go looking for (organic) food. Farmers in hash producing areas report that using chemical fertilizer causes potency to go down. Science claims otherwise, that N is N and P is P. Also the purity of the chemical fertilizer is often overlooked. The smoke tells the truth.

Keep it cheap and simple. I add crushed limestone and basalt, composted manure, organic materials (rotted wood and leaf duff raked out of the bush), fish skeletons, biochar, bone char, coffee grounds, hardwood ash, rusty nails, etc. All for free. I like to ammend once.

Use natural water that is not full of sodium and flouride.

Good native ground is easy to work with. Added clay fill in a new yard may not be. Be aware of contaminated ground. Keep an eye out for spots where garbage was burnt and buried in the past, etc.

Add the food, the worms will multiply.

Considering that these trees grow just fine on gravelly mountainsides and desert sands, it is impessive what they will do in proper soil.
 
injinji

injinji

Well-Known Member
I grow in the same holes crop after crop. (some of my holes have two crops a year) I'm not 100% organic, as a big part of my mix is spent mushroom growing medium. It's less than 500 bucks for one of the big dump trucks. When it's time to soup up the soil, I add mushroom compost, coffee ground compost, Holly-tone and other organic plant foods, gypsum, lime, Epson salts, blood and bone meal, course and fine vermiculite and a few things that are slipping my mind at the moment. I don't spend real money on my grows so it changes according to what I find on sale or what I have on hand. In the bad old days when I used manure composts for economic rather than ecological reasons I used a lot of wood ash and pee ferts.

I have to pack everything in, so I make it hot. I can do up to five holes out of a five gallon bucket with my "I'm too old for this shit" mix. But you do have to let it sit for a couple three weeks before putting your plants in.
 
NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
One other thing I forgot to mention--consider adding something like perlite or volcanic rock to improve aeration, as it sounds like your native soil is pretty dense. If I had it to do over again I would've added some to my mix, although the plants seemed happy anyway.

I think the key think for you would be getting a soil test (only $15 at my state university cooperative extension lab) so you know what you're dealing with and what you should add to optimize for cannabis. If you tell them what you're growing they'll probably give you recommendations for exactly how much, say, limestone to add to raise your pH, etc.

Where are you by the way? Based on your pics I'd guess California?
 
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FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
NewEnglandFarmer said:
One other thing I forgot to mention--consider adding something like perlite or volcanic rock to improve aeration, as it sounds like your native soil is pretty dense. If I had it to do over again I would've added some to my mix, although the plants seemed happy anyway.

I think the key think for you would be getting a soil test (only $15 at my state university cooperative extension lab) so you know what you're dealing with and what you should add to optimize for cannabis. If you tell them what you're growing they'll probably give you recommendations for exactly how much, say, limestone to add to raise your pH, etc.

Where are you by the way? Based on your pics I'd guess California?
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Thanks again for the info! Yup, Bakersfield, CA.

There’s a local garden supply company that does soil testing, but I’m not sure what all they test. I think their focus is lawns, but they mention flower beds too. I’m gonna give them a call on Tuesday. First 5 soil samples are free too!

I have added some Perlite, but I think I need to add more. I’ve added worm casings last year, but I have not dumped in any live worms. Adding that to my list.

I have researched compost tea and really wanted to use it last season, but I didn’t have a cool enough place to brew it and was worried about possibly poisoning the plants. I’m converting my shed into a temp and humidity controlled room for drying and will be able to brew compost tea. I think my buds would have been bigger and better with the addition of compost tea.
 
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FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
Thank you everybody for the information you have shared! It is extremely helpful for a noob like me. I’m going to create a grow journal, and look forward to learning from those with knowledge and insight from folks like y’all!

David
 
NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
FishingwithDave said:
There’s a local garden supply company that does soil testing, but I’m not sure what all they test. I think their focus is lawns, but they mention flower beds too. I’m gonna give them a call on Tuesday. First 5 soil samples are free too!
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Free is great but make sure you're getting all the right data you need (macro and micro nuturients, pH, ideally recommendations for how much of various amendments to add to reach optimum levels for cannabis) from a quality lab. Check this list out from your area: http://cekern.ucanr.edu/Environmental_Horticulture/Soils_Testing_Laboratories/

FishingwithDave said:
I have researched compost tea and really wanted to use it last season, but I didn’t have a cool enough place to brew it and was worried about possibly poisoning the plants.
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Don't think you need to worry about hurting your plants with compost tea unless you put something weird in there or it goes rancid somehow. But if you aerate it and don't let it sit stagnant for days that's not likely (if it smells or looks nasty don't use it!).

"How many of you that sit and judge me ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?"--gotta love Buck Owens. Never been there but like to check it out sometime. Must've been hotter than hell last summer...and did you get smoked out too?
 
M

MidwestGorilla219

Well-Known Member
I grow in mostly clay and my holes are 3' wide and about 15-18" deep. I would recommend planting a winter/spring cover crop in your native soil if your clay soil drains poorly, then mulch the native soil with woodchips once the growing season starts. After a few years you should have good soil with little effort and the cover crops will produce more biomass and work as mulch through summer.
 
F

FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
NewEnglandFarmer said:
Free is great but make sure you're getting all the right data you need (macro and micro nuturients, pH, ideally recommendations for how much of various amendments to add to reach optimum levels for cannabis) from a quality lab. Check this list out from your area: http://cekern.ucanr.edu/Environmental_Horticulture/Soils_Testing_Laboratories/

I found that list, but none of those places are in Kern County. Given all the Ag here, I would have thought there’d be some local testing. One of them offers a pick service in Bakersfield so hopefully thats

Don't think you need to worry about hurting your plants with compost tea unless you put something weird in there or it goes rancid somehow. But if you aerate it and don't let it sit stagnant for days that's not likely (if it smells or looks nasty don't use it!).

I was worried about it going rancid and introducing bad bacteria to my grow because of the high temps we experience in the Summer.

"How many of you that sit and judge me ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?"--gotta love Buck Owens. Never been there but like to check it out sometime. Must've been hotter than hell last summer...and did you get smoked out too?

Two regrets I have are not having seen Buck Owens or Merle Haggard perform live, especially Haggard. Didn’t know how great of a musician and how great his bands were until he passed away.

We did get really smoked out for what seemed like months. Smoke was so thick at times that it was like fog. Ash was sticking to my buds too! Hope we don’t see fires like that ever again.
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NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
FishingwithDave said:
I was worried about it going rancid and introducing bad bacteria to my grow because of the high temps we experience in the Summer.
Click to expand...
Hmmm...I've never heard of that issue with heat but then again I'm not a tea expert, just have done some research and had good success with it. I suspect if you keep it aerated the "good" bacteria in the compost will reproduce and thrive and crowd out anything undesirable. I typically brew for just 24-36 hours and apply immediately after I just off the aerator.
FishingwithDave said:
Two regrets I have are not having seen Buck Owens or Merle Haggard perform live, especially Haggard. Didn’t know how great of a musician and how great his bands were until he passed away.
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Need to check out Haggard more...never listened much to him. I remember Owens from Hee-Haw as a kid in the seventies, but really it was Dwight Yoakam's version of "Streets of Bakersfield" that made me appreciate Owens. One of the greatest American songs of all time in my opinion.
FishingwithDave said:
We did get really smoked out for what seemed like months. Smoke was so thick at times that it was like fog. Ash was sticking to my buds too! Hope we don’t see fires like that ever again.
Click to expand...
I hate to say this but I'm afraid with the climate trends big fires are going to be a regular thing out west and the problem will steadily worsen. My dad's in Mariposa and he got smoked out bad for weeks from the Creek Fire. He's dodged the bullet a number of times but at some point he won't...

BTW, here's a copy of my soil test from last spring. You should check and make sure you get something that has at least this basic data:

soil-test-may-2020.png
 
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F

FishingwithDave

Well-Known Member
@NewEnglandFarmer I’ve reached out to a couple of soil testing labs and have spoken to one so far. Waypoint charges $55 to analyze the soil and provide a basic analysis similar to the one you posted. To get a report with recommendations for amending, the cost rises to $114. If I also test my vegetable garden area, the cost would $188. Hoping I find something a little less expensive.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Outdoor grower here as well. No so much on the fancy terms. LOL. Just know what works here.

I'm an avid user of B@@gie Br$w tea. Mostly as a dry amendment. Too hot in my potted plants as prepared. In ground it is best as foliar for me when prepared. It does turn in a day, two at most in temps over 80F. I suggest using it when it first gets a good protein foam. Suggested brew times are generalizations. Air input and temp affect the time needed.

I also grow in a raised bed. Emptied to base now. Heavy concentrations of hard clay here. I dug 5 gal holes and filled with my potting mix. Great growth. I pull my root balls after dried. In spring I use a manual garden weasel to loosen the soil in holes and drop transplants in. Top off the holes with fresh soil mix and 1/2 the amendments used for the same amount of fresh mixed soil. 7 th season. No issues yet. 009.jpg
 
NewEnglandFarmer

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
FishingwithDave said:
@NewEnglandFarmer I’ve reached out to a couple of soil testing labs and have spoken to one so far. Waypoint charges $55 to analyze the soil and provide a basic analysis similar to the one you posted. To get a report with recommendations for amending, the cost rises to $114. If I also test my vegetable garden area, the cost would $188. Hoping I find something a little less expensive.
Click to expand...
Rats, basic soil test is $18 at UMaine Extension. Hard to believe UC doesn't offer similar service. Worth a call to your Cooperative Extension or Ag. Dept.?
 
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C

cherrybobeddie

Well-Known Member
FishingwithDave said:
Thanks again for the info! Yup, Bakersfield, CA.

There’s a local garden supply company that does soil testing, but I’m not sure what all they test. I think their focus is lawns, but they mention flower beds too. I’m gonna give them a call on Tuesday. First 5 soil samples are free too!

I have added some Perlite, but I think I need to add more. I’ve added worm casings last year, but I have not dumped in any live worms. Adding that to my list.

I have researched compost tea and really wanted to use it last season, but I didn’t have a cool enough place to brew it and was worried about possibly poisoning the plants. I’m converting my shed into a temp and humidity controlled room for drying and will be able to brew compost tea. I think my buds would have been bigger and better with the addition of compost tea.
Click to expand...
They will ask you what you are growing. Be prepared. Tell them tomatoes.
 
C

cherrybobeddie

Well-Known Member
NewEnglandFarmer said:
Hmmm...I've never heard of that issue with heat but then again I'm not a tea expert, just have done some research and had good success with it. I suspect if you keep it aerated the "good" bacteria in the compost will reproduce and thrive and crowd out anything undesirable. I typically brew for just 24-36 hours and apply immediately after I just off the aerator.

Need to check out Haggard more...never listened much to him. I remember Owens from Hee-Haw as a kid in the seventies, but really it was Dwight Yoakam's version of "Streets of Bakersfield" that made me appreciate Owens. One of the greatest American songs of all time in my opinion.

I hate to say this but I'm afraid with the climate trends big fires are going to be a regular thing out west and the problem will steadily worsen. My dad's in Mariposa and he got smoked out bad for weeks from the Creek Fire. He's dodged the bullet a number of times but at some point he won't...

BTW, here's a copy of my soil test from last spring. You should check and make sure you get something that has at least this basic data:

View attachment 4787238
Click to expand...
Oh Yeh. I like the Bakersfield sound. Merle, Buck and Dwight. don't forget Buck Owens. I really like Merle Haggard's chill factor album got that on vinyl.
 
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