inbred depression

So as you can tell from the chart, I've changed my mind AGAIN. Well, I'm getting some blackberry, so I rearranged.
The big bud X northern lights is doing well. I will likely change my mind a bunch of times before I am through.
I have a promising looking Blue Mystic male, but I am undecided on the California Orange Female. If a nice one doesn't show, I'm going to cross with the best Blue Mystic Female, and save some pollen for another try with a new group of the Orange.

Even if what I get at the end of all this, isn't the best thing ever, at least I'll have gotten several years of being lit, and a nice hobby to futz with.

No offense, but I don't see a point to your chart..

its hard for the small scale grower as someone mentioned because of space for many plants and good male selection and also time back crossing takes a long time. so because of this i mostly make s-1's or fem crosses of established stabilized clone only strains equivalent to fem f-1's. stable uniform growth with hybrid vigor and no weakness through inbreeding.

The chart just shows which traits I am trying to stack.

You can gather a ton of seeds from a generation, and just grow them out in different groups. This helps with the small grow thing. 4 groups of 25 is the about the same as one group of 100.

I am in no rush. I have about a year into it so far, and best case I figure it will be a couple of more years just to get the genetics I want piled together to start to try to find that one magic one to try to start stabilizing. As long as I am careful not to drop the traits I am tracking along the way, eventually it should work. Real Bonzai take many years, that's the sort of mindset I have.

This kind of project isn't for everybody, and it isn't the best way to do it, however, given enough time and work, I still think it should work.

If it were easy, everyone would do it.

Besides, like I have said before, I doubt I will screw it up to the point where the buds aren't smokable.

bicycle racer said:

its hard for the small scale grower as someone mentioned because of space for many plants and good male selection and also time back crossing takes a long time. so because of this i mostly make s-1's or fem crosses of established stabilized clone only strains equivalent to fem f-1's. stable uniform growth with hybrid vigor and no weakness through inbreeding.

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That's a valid plan too. I'm just one of those people that has to tinker.

I'm not sure what a "established stabilized clone only strains" is.
If it is established and stabilized, why would it be clone only?

if you have the patience great like you said 2 to 3 years but if you succeed in getting what you want then it is worth it. i plan at some point to get into the seed business i plan on specializing in simple f-1 hybrids of known stable strains and fem clone only socal s-1's and clone only crosses femf-1's. easy for me to produce predictable uniform plants this way. im growing some clone only fem hybrids right now and there doing well. they are pre 98 bubba kush crossed to bannana kush larry og kush blue dream and sfv og kush i also popped some regular f-1's of purple urkel crossed to white widow if i get a workable male im going to cross the urkel widows to the bubba crosses to get a four way cross that should behave as f-1's as the genetics of the four strains are all quite different. should make for potent plants with alot of fresh genes and vigor. this method removes any issue with inbreding. i may get into backcrossing later on but there are hundreds of strains and hybrids im going to produce in this manner which will take time there are many great clones not available in seed form yet.

tinkering is good thats how new ideas and discoveries come about especially in the un-regulated cannabis industry. most people are quick to say no you cant do that without actual experimentation because of something they read that may or may not be correct or apply to cannabis. creativity and abstract ideas are just as important as an analytical mind in finding new discoveries or methods in all aspects of botany imo.

Thats good, its ALOT easier to lock in traits that resulted from a cross than it is to try to pull traits pure to one of the P1's and stabilize them..
And yea, if you can keep the P1's alive then you could batch the seeds.. Its almost relativistic in a way, time and space not being independant of each other and all..

Right on Grubs .. I like the long term plan ! Breed the best to the best .. and I believe U will end up w/ a very nice strain .. Curious to see how it goes ..over the long run ! I agree .. u r gonna have some good smoke along the way

Thanks all, I really appreciate it.

Part of it is that I figure that with any luck, I'll have a little hobby garden for the next many, many years anyway, so why not? I'm in no rush, and I don't have to take any commercial interests into consideration, so I can try for what I want in a plant.

And even if you fail at creating a true strain, you still get loads and loads of decent strainish seeds.. Its almost a shame how many will go to waste since the smart move would be to keep them to yourself rather than take a risk on selling them, or even giving them away..

born2killspam said:

Thats good, its ALOT easier to lock in traits that resulted from a cross than it is to try to pull traits pure to one of the P1's and stabilize them..
And yea, if you can keep the P1's alive then you could batch the seeds.. Its almost relativistic in a way, time and space not being independant of each other and all..

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Correct, 2 P1s will make a F1 hybrid, which will be very similar to each other. When you cross the F1s, you get more variation. If you pick the members of F2 that show the desired trait, then you know the genes are there, and can start working from there. If none of the F2 show the desired trait, you can recross the F1s until it does.

born2killspam said:

And even if you fail at creating a true strain, you still get loads and loads of decent strainish seeds.. Its almost a shame how many will go to waste since the smart move would be to keep them to yourself rather than take a risk on selling them, or even giving them away..

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Yeah, but I figure it will be a nice treat for me and those in my "circle". Besdies, it's way too early for me to worry about what to do with it after it is done. I'll believe it and figure out what to do with it after I have smoked a whole lot of it.

Grubs said:

Correct, 2 P1s will make a F1 hybrid, which will be very similar to each other. When you cross the F1s, you get more variation. If you pick the members of F2 that show the desired trait, then you know the genes are there, and can start working from there. If none of the F2 show the desired trait, you can recross the F1s until it does.

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Two 'true breeding' P1's will create uniform F1's.. Skunk1xAfgani should give you very uniform F1's.. Flavor_of_weekXFlavor_of_last_week, not so much.. I'm notexactly familiar with your stock.. My growing experience is with Skunk1, NL5, a bit of WW, and some sativa strain my dads been making a few seeds with since the 60's/70's..

born2killspam said:

Two 'true breeding' P1's will create uniform F1's.. Skunk1xAfgani should give you very uniform F1's.. Flavor_of_weekXFlavor_of_last_week, not so much.. I'm notexactly familiar with your stock.. My growing experience is with Skunk1, NL5, a bit of WW, and some sativa strain my dads been making a few seeds with since the 60's/70's..

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Yeah, that's what I meant, but he said it better. If the P1s aren't true for the trait, it's really a F??

whats up grubs..NOT TRYING TO HIJACK, but thought i whould ask...does anyone know if pistols ( size&thickness) have anything to do with resin production??....i have noticed that my plants with many/thick pistols have less resin/THC then the ones that have few & thin pistols..also can one breed for both thick pistols & resin/THC production??? thanks...MEANGREEN..

you more or less overtime can breed for whatever trait you want look at domesticated dogs all were wolves but now you got pomeranians and great danes that are very different its just a matter of time knowledge and patience.

MEANGREEN69 said:

whats up grubs..NOT TRYING TO HIJACK, but thought i whould ask...does anyone know if pistols ( size&thickness) have anything to do with resin production??....i have noticed that my plants with many/thick pistols have less resin/THC then the ones that have few & thin pistols..also can one breed for both thick pistols & resin/THC production??? thanks...MEANGREEN..

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It's no hyjack, if someone knows the answer, I'd like to know too.

bicycle racer said:

you more or less overtime can breed for whatever trait you want look at domesticated dogs all were wolves but now you got pomeranians and great danes that are very different its just a matter of time knowledge and patience.

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and ... MJ plants are a LOT simpler genetics than Great Danes

According to Marijuana Botany:

Dominate/Recessive

Tall Stem/Short Stem
Pinnate leaves/webbed leaves
Green cylax/Purple cylax
Large seed/small seed
Diffuse root system/taproot root system.