vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
For sure, I actually didn't even know my email went through becuase it said their mailbox was full, then I got that. Must be an "Apache Killer" lololol
Invasion of Red and Blue LEDs: Humble Beginnings
- Thread starter PetFlora
- Start date
maybe something like "let's serve the big european market where we are located first"?
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
True.......................But how hard is it to use universal voltage driver(s) on the new fixture?? In the end it's their loss, just saying
vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
Especially with America about to legalize or decriminalize it? Its like the wild west out here, and you don't want to make yourself a viable option off the bat for the biggest potential market in the world?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Here's an important post from another site over 2+ years ago that guided me out of the RB craze...
"The spectrum of light the plant uses efficiently changes with the intensity.
At low light levels red is used more than blue, just like the chlorophyll charts.
As the light gets brighter more and more blue is used.
The break point is reached about 50% of max leaf capacity then green starts coming on. As the intensity continues up red and blue remain steady but green use continues to grow until at maximum it is almost half of all the light energy being used.
>
This is one reason why, even with the rather shitty, lopsided spectrum produced by HPS, one can still get good results with them:
I'm glad we've finally gotten some good studies on green light over the past several years, as has been mentioned previously (link) by a few of us.
While 'every lumen (or rather, PPFD) is sacred', I'm of the camp that would prefer a higher level of (adjustable) full-intensity, multi-spectrum (i.e. 'white') light incorporated into the main fixture, for that very reason.
And with the recent increases in the efficiency of neutral whites, there's no reason why you can't get perfectly good results with just a two-channel, adjustable led fixture (neutral white, and red), supplementing with the aforementioned only as needed.
>
As one can see, the CREE Neutral White (I call it 'Goldilocks', because it's almost 'just right' ) has a RSPD that still allows nearly ~25% of its total power in the blue range (and plants only really 'need' ~8-10%), and more that 1/3 of which (i.e. the area under the curve) is over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!) - which is much better than even your typical 'Enhanced HPS'.
Couple that with strong white light (green-response chlorophyll extending throughout and deep into leaf structures, with a net effect at or near that of the (mostly) surface-level blue and reds), which also takes care of most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photo-morphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.
(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):
Something like that would probably meet the needs of ~95% of today's growers."
"The spectrum of light the plant uses efficiently changes with the intensity.
At low light levels red is used more than blue, just like the chlorophyll charts.
As the light gets brighter more and more blue is used.
The break point is reached about 50% of max leaf capacity then green starts coming on. As the intensity continues up red and blue remain steady but green use continues to grow until at maximum it is almost half of all the light energy being used.
>
This is one reason why, even with the rather shitty, lopsided spectrum produced by HPS, one can still get good results with them:
I'm glad we've finally gotten some good studies on green light over the past several years, as has been mentioned previously (link) by a few of us.
While 'every lumen (or rather, PPFD) is sacred', I'm of the camp that would prefer a higher level of (adjustable) full-intensity, multi-spectrum (i.e. 'white') light incorporated into the main fixture, for that very reason.
And with the recent increases in the efficiency of neutral whites, there's no reason why you can't get perfectly good results with just a two-channel, adjustable led fixture (neutral white, and red), supplementing with the aforementioned only as needed.
>
As one can see, the CREE Neutral White (I call it 'Goldilocks', because it's almost 'just right' ) has a RSPD that still allows nearly ~25% of its total power in the blue range (and plants only really 'need' ~8-10%), and more that 1/3 of which (i.e. the area under the curve) is over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!) - which is much better than even your typical 'Enhanced HPS'.
Couple that with strong white light (green-response chlorophyll extending throughout and deep into leaf structures, with a net effect at or near that of the (mostly) surface-level blue and reds), which also takes care of most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photo-morphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.
(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):
Something like that would probably meet the needs of ~95% of today's growers."
Red1966
Well-Known Member
The Chinese companies are not "U.S. owned". Yes, when you sell a used product, you get less than when it was new. You bought crappy Chinese lights and want to blame everyone else. Learn from YOUR mistake and get over it.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
I used HIGH pressure sodium (1200w) + red & blue (200w) in a side by side. All clones. Side with R&B was slightly better looking (bigger buds) but no discernible difference in quality.
Swiller
Well-Known Member
Slow your roll there red, if you were born in 1966, you are not showing your age, or like jumping to invalid conclusions, have some patience, and I'll fill you in here.
I purchased an Onyx Bloom new $450, and it is working fine. Got a 24 Surexi F3 LED 3 bar lamp for $325. I also purchased a SG602 (retailed new for over $1000) for cheap on craigslist for $225. Then noticed a used Advanced LED Extreme Flower 360 watt (retailed new for over $1000) on Ebay for $135...got that one too.
I read a whole lot before spending my hard earned money, which includes posts from peeps just like you red, thank you.
I do not regret any LED purchase so far. It is my firm belief HPS is going the way of the incandescent home light bulb. There is simply too much wasted energy being produced as heat.
FranJan
Well-Known Member
PetFlora did you know some "open minded" people use both types of LEDs in order to produce the best MMJ possible? Silly boy, stop trying to be right like some DA putting an innocent person in jail try to be correct instead. OK? In other words, OPEN YOUR MIND AND SHUT YOUR SIMPLE-ASS MOUTH! Grrrrrrr. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds Sonny Jim. And opinions are not facts 
.
From Illumitex. Open your mind and see the possibilities PF. Stop trying to get people to drink your Kool-Aid. And yes PetFlora, re-edu-ma-cation is hard so maybe you should take a nap before you begin.
450 nm BLUE
The 450nm spectrum enacts regulation by cryptochromes and phototropins, mediating various plant responses, such as phototropic curvature, inhibition of elongation growth, chloroplast movement, stomatal opening and seedling growth regulation. Can be directly absorbed by chlorophyll in photosynthesis. Recommended as supplemental light for seedlings and young plants during the vegetative stage of their growth cycle, especially when “stretching” must be reduced or eliminated.
525 nm GREEN
The Illumitex 525nm wavelength LED can be used as a tool for eliciting specific plant responses such as stomatal control, phototropism, photomorphogenic growth and environmental signaling. When combined with blue, red and far-red wavelengths, 525nm completes a comprehensive spectral treatment for understanding plant physiological activity.
624 nm RED
This 624nm region has the highest photosynthetic relative quantum yield for a range of plants. At the same time, its action on red-absorbing phytochrome is considerably weaker compared to that of 660 nm red light and can be used to balance the phytochrome equilibrium towards lower values (closer to those of daylight) than those achievable with 660 nm red light, especially when used together with 730 nm red light.
660 nm DEEP RED
The 660nm wavelength has a very strong photosynthetic action and also exhibits the highest action on red-absorbing phytochrome regulated germination, flowering and other processes. Most effective for light cycle extension or night interruption to induce flowering of long-day plants or prevent flowering of short-day plants. Most energy-efficient source for photosynthesis among all available supplemental LEDs.
730 nm FAR RED
Although the 730nm wavelength is outside the photosynthetically active range, it has the strongest action on the far-red absorbing form of phytochrome, converting it back to the red-absorbing form. It becomes necessary for plants requiring relatively low values of the phytochrome photoequilibrium to flower. Can be used at the end of each light cycle to promote flowering in short-day plants.
See monos are your friends not your enemies. People just need to figure out what works and what doesn't. White is a tool. Not "The Way" Herr Flora.
PS You do know your precious whites starts off as a mono? LOL I love that actually. LOL
PPS Have you apologized to Puff for all the beautiful plants he has grown without "white" light? Didn't think so. Wolves I say. LOL
PPS You just got invaded
.From Illumitex. Open your mind and see the possibilities PF. Stop trying to get people to drink your Kool-Aid. And yes PetFlora, re-edu-ma-cation is hard so maybe you should take a nap before you begin.
450 nm BLUE
The 450nm spectrum enacts regulation by cryptochromes and phototropins, mediating various plant responses, such as phototropic curvature, inhibition of elongation growth, chloroplast movement, stomatal opening and seedling growth regulation. Can be directly absorbed by chlorophyll in photosynthesis. Recommended as supplemental light for seedlings and young plants during the vegetative stage of their growth cycle, especially when “stretching” must be reduced or eliminated.
525 nm GREEN
The Illumitex 525nm wavelength LED can be used as a tool for eliciting specific plant responses such as stomatal control, phototropism, photomorphogenic growth and environmental signaling. When combined with blue, red and far-red wavelengths, 525nm completes a comprehensive spectral treatment for understanding plant physiological activity.
624 nm RED
This 624nm region has the highest photosynthetic relative quantum yield for a range of plants. At the same time, its action on red-absorbing phytochrome is considerably weaker compared to that of 660 nm red light and can be used to balance the phytochrome equilibrium towards lower values (closer to those of daylight) than those achievable with 660 nm red light, especially when used together with 730 nm red light.
660 nm DEEP RED
The 660nm wavelength has a very strong photosynthetic action and also exhibits the highest action on red-absorbing phytochrome regulated germination, flowering and other processes. Most effective for light cycle extension or night interruption to induce flowering of long-day plants or prevent flowering of short-day plants. Most energy-efficient source for photosynthesis among all available supplemental LEDs.
730 nm FAR RED
Although the 730nm wavelength is outside the photosynthetically active range, it has the strongest action on the far-red absorbing form of phytochrome, converting it back to the red-absorbing form. It becomes necessary for plants requiring relatively low values of the phytochrome photoequilibrium to flower. Can be used at the end of each light cycle to promote flowering in short-day plants.
See monos are your friends not your enemies. People just need to figure out what works and what doesn't. White is a tool. Not "The Way" Herr Flora.
PS You do know your precious whites starts off as a mono? LOL I love that actually. LOL
PPS Have you apologized to Puff for all the beautiful plants he has grown without "white" light? Didn't think so. Wolves I say. LOL
PPS You just got invaded
ballist
Well-Known Member
Red/blue form the basis of plant growth. Using white light is another way of providing red/blue plus a number of other wavelengths. Some of the other wavelengths will be used while others will be dissipated as heat. At the moment we can produce white light more efficiently than red. Blue is already the most efficient emitter and used to produce red or white depending on phosphor. The most efficient systems appear to be white based systems at present but is there any real conclusive proof that they perform better?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Fran, it's hard to argue with you, cause... well...
I know the following is above your pay grade, but
it's more for others whom you confuse with cut and pasted " facts"...
When sailors did not consume vitamin C during their long ocean voyages they developed scurvy
Now what the hell does that have to do with growing mj?
Indeed
MJ is a fruiting plant (buds= fruit)
They will be healthy when given a FULL spectrum of light (quality food and environment being a constant)
If they don't, the plant will survive as best it can, BUT, its' genetic make-up will be altered to the degree of the missing spectrum (or food abuses). Should this continue over generations a predisposition develops. IE German Shepards are predisposed to hip dysplasia, which is passed down through each subsequent generation. My dad had to put his Shep down due to this condition
Subsequent seeds will reflect being grown under incomplete lighting as much as they would with incomplete (or exaggerated food formulas...
And while there is much truth in your examples, each mono chart you took the time to c & p is incorporated into a quality WHITE led
Depending on how much (or little) of each is in the white diodes, they can be tweaked with a bit of R or B to COMPENSATE
I know the following is above your pay grade, but
it's more for others whom you confuse with cut and pasted " facts"...
When sailors did not consume vitamin C during their long ocean voyages they developed scurvy
Now what the hell does that have to do with growing mj?
Indeed
MJ is a fruiting plant (buds= fruit)
They will be healthy when given a FULL spectrum of light (quality food and environment being a constant)
If they don't, the plant will survive as best it can, BUT, its' genetic make-up will be altered to the degree of the missing spectrum (or food abuses). Should this continue over generations a predisposition develops. IE German Shepards are predisposed to hip dysplasia, which is passed down through each subsequent generation. My dad had to put his Shep down due to this condition
Subsequent seeds will reflect being grown under incomplete lighting as much as they would with incomplete (or exaggerated food formulas...
And while there is much truth in your examples, each mono chart you took the time to c & p is incorporated into a quality WHITE led
Depending on how much (or little) of each is in the white diodes, they can be tweaked with a bit of R or B to COMPENSATE
Cupid Stunt
Member
This has to be some of the most bat shit crazy stuff I have ever read on a forum...Dogs have a predisposition to hip dyspasia so plants who dont get white light will be altered as well over generations....
sound like you need to change your nutes and they are affecting your logic on reason
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FranJan
Well-Known Member
With 4 medical licenses to my name there are many things above my pay grade but that wasn't one of them. And this is what I'm talking about Pet. Marijuana is a flowering herb, not fruit. That is your opinion and YOU treat it like fact.
FranJan
Well-Known Member
It's a flowering herb and all your craziness doesn't change that.
And your white LEDs aren't true broad spectrum. Only parts of the output is useful to a plant. You're lost PF and people should not be listening to your wannabe Jorge Cervantes bullshit. Sorry but that's the way it looks from here. Now here go play with a real white LED, and at only 480.00 apiece a real bargain for you rich folks out there. Later, I got laundry and biking to do.
http://www.thorlabs.de/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=MBB1L3
And your white LEDs aren't true broad spectrum. Only parts of the output is useful to a plant. You're lost PF and people should not be listening to your wannabe Jorge Cervantes bullshit. Sorry but that's the way it looks from here. Now here go play with a real white LED, and at only 480.00 apiece a real bargain for you rich folks out there. Later, I got laundry and biking to do.
http://www.thorlabs.de/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=MBB1L3
THANK You!
Cupid Stunt
Member
I'm sure the irony is lost on you calling others ignorant all the while making fallacious comments without any factual data too back them up...
no one is disputing white light is good for cannabis...but you made a huge statement pertaining to genetic mutation if plants weren't given white light over successive generations as if it were factual and have declined the opportunity to provide evidence of this viewpoint...so why would you make such a broad statement without any knowledge of this actually occurring...?