is 722 too low a ppm for the first week of flowering?

Hi Guys,
I've seen people post that the more you feed, the faster the plants will grow. This is true up to a certain point.

In truth, there's a plateau that's reached where more food does not increase growth...and only risks lockout and burn. So more isn't always better.
JD

This is a great convo /popcorn

JohnDee said:

Hi Guys,
I've seen people post that the more you feed, the faster the plants will grow. This is true up to a certain point.

In truth, there's a plateau that's reached where more food does not increase growth...and only risks lockout and burn. So more isn't always better.
JD

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Where did you get that chart?

Also, I wanted to point out that if you have a nutrient solution @ 65F it will register lower in ppm if that same solution was 75F.

Imo you just kind of have to watch your plants for what they need, and if it takes 400 ppm cool and if it takes 2500 cool, just gotta pay attention

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mr2shim said:

Where did you get that chart?

Also, I wanted to point out that if you have a nutrient solution @ 65F it will register lower in ppm if that same solution was 75F.

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I added calmag yesterday. That is why my ppm is higher now than yesterday.

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Hi Mr2shim,
I was afraid someone was going to ask that. I looked but don't have the link. It was a non-ganja horticultural site.

I did do a quick search using "yield response curve" and found a different site that includes a slightly different, but very similar yield/response curve.

So all the guys who are burning their plants and getting low growth are way over on the right shoulder of the curve.

Even guys who push nutrients till they get a bit of burn and then back off a tad, aren't optimizing their growth rate...since they are way over to the right on the plateau. They could back off even more: and get the same growth rate, save money on nutrients and have a wider safety margin.

http://www.nrm.uk.com/files/documents/NRM_Plant_Tissue_Analysis.pdf?phpMyAdmin=e74c3ed609ea3e3b1031074d884358e6

Cheers,
JD

JohnDee said:

Hi Mr2shim,
I was afraid someone was going to ask that. I looked but don't have the link. It was a non-ganja horticultural site.

I did do a quick search using "yield response curve" and found a different site that includes a slightly different, but very similar yield/response curve.

So all the guys who are burning their plants and getting low growth are way over on the right shoulder of the curve.

Even guys who push nutrients till they get a bit of burn and then back off a tad, aren't optimizing their growth rate...since they are way over to the right on the plateau. They could back off even more: and get the same growth rate, save money on nutrients and have a wider safety margin.

http://www.nrm.uk.com/files/documents/NRM_Plant_Tissue_Analysis.pdf?phpMyAdmin=e74c3ed609ea3e3b1031074d884358e6

Cheers,
JD

Click to expand...

I don't push to burn then back off. I increase when the plants look like they need more of something then I add small amounts daily to my system until they look happy again. Sometimes this ends up high ppm sometimes it's low at like 600 all the way through flowering.

What I Have noticed though with an og I grow, that it's colas will not reach full potential unless push it's a little high in nitrogen during the end of flowering phase not push to burn. But nice dark leaves.

Like this picture, I've tried going easier on it and it yield better when pushed a bit. In the same res blue dreams leaves are yellowing up. Second pic is bd.

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A high nutrient level reduces water uptake, by keeping it on the low end the plants can can transpire optimally and take what they need.

First few runs on hydro I used 400 to 1100 ppm, especially at peak vegging and peak flowering(budding). Basically on or slightly above the sweetspot where water and nutrient uptake is balanced. I'm currently doing a 480ppm run (except first week veg and last week flower), latest pic here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/supercropping-and-canopy-control.413359/page-61#post-10395099

I need to add nutrients more often now, but that does result in a more consistent ratio, and the high water uptake allows me to top off so often I barely need to refrez my rez. Not saying it's better yield wise or anything, just wanted to do a low ppm run and see what happens. Week 6-7, so far so good.

my plant drinks half my rez each day and I run 1600ppm nutes but slowly build my nutes up and I also use nutes that make my plant hungry for more nutes (humic acid).

thought I would drop this thread link here. Thanks again guys..

https://www.rollitup.org/p/10399191/

Yodaweed said:

my plant drinks half my rez each day and I run 1600ppm nutes but slowly build my nutes up and I also use nutes that make my plant hungry for more nutes (humic acid).

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I'm also replacing about 5 gallons of water a day out of 8 to 10 total gallons in the res.

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Yodaweed said:

my plant drinks half my rez each day and I run 1600ppm nutes

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You need a bigger rez

It's totally understandable people want big buds, big fruits, but that's not something just mj growers want, it's a much larger priority in the food industry. With the ever increasing population it is no less than a matter of life and death.

Huge commercial greenhouses don't want to use any more nutes than needed. Besides the cost of the nutes, limits on the max amount of pollution force them to get the max yields with as little amount of nutrient use and waste as possible.

Point is, it's been tested,over and over, and still is today. For anyone interested in the balance between water/nutrients/yield I higly recommend reading some books on nutrient usage in commercial greenhouses. Sure cannabis is a unique plant, it's still plant and most things apply.

Besides the decreased water uptake, another test outcome I remember well is that even though you can push a plant to take up more nutrients, it doesn't necessarily mean it will produce more yield, it'll build up a larger reserve (which in optimal indoor conditions is overkill).

All in all it's best to look at the plants first then the meters. Just because the ppm dropped doesn't mean it actually 'needs' a higher ppm.

damn right I need a bigger rez im gonna break my back changing this damn water farm.

Yodaweed said:

damn right I need a bigger rez im gonna break my back changing this damn water farm.

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yeah bit of a hassle but some people don't mind i guess

A nice bonus from my chiller setup is that I can use it too empty the rez, I just pull a hose to/from my bathroom and open a valve. Chiller is outside the grow closet (actually pumping nute solution through closet wall to chiller and back) so I don't even have to open the door.

Still, it's a good thing you have to change often. Better refresh and/or top-off often than run with an imbalanced soup for longer time and risk nutrient antagonism.

Someday I will get the Hanna Photometer (NPK amongst others) and get some more insight than just ppm.

So i have an HM EC meter (not sure of mod number) and it reads 1450 on display. At .5 is the ppm's not 725 ppm's maybe this is were I'm getting confused?

I run lucas in coco and my ppm before moab or koolbloom are right around there 750-800