ounevinsmoke
Well-Known Member
The underlined is not soils last advantage.
IS RDWC really better than soil? If so how?
- Thread starter Darknes01
- Start date
ApexseasOG
Well-Known Member
Coming from an ex hydro guy, I can tell you that yes, plants in hydro grow faster and bigger but that's not always necessarily better. I never knew how unique, smelly and tasty certain strains can be until I smoked herb grown in organic soil. The colors are deeper, the smells are more pronounced and the cured bud just feels more "matured" IMO. Even if you were considering a commercial grow, I personally wouldn't go the hydro route. As a small business owner I can tell you that quantity doesn't always equate to more profit. People will know if you're selling them a product that's subpar and depending on who's your target consumer you might have better results offering a better product for a higher price. You would sell less quantity at a higher price but you'll have more loyal customers that you can count on coming back. In my experience with my business (not cannabis related), quality retains more customers than price. I rather have a customer that knows that what we have is a better product and who is willing to pay for it than someone who is just looking for the best deal out there; you can't count on that customer coming back because when he finds something cheaper that's where he'll go and there's always going to be someone doing the same thing you're doing for less because well people are cheap and love to cut corners. Anyway hope it helps.
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
Newb Question - could the aggressive use of nutes contribute to hermaphrodism?
re: I worked with a woman who was:
an awarded bodybuilder
a private personal trainer from 6am-8am
a dancer in a big 30 lbs fuzzy suit (kid's show I worked on)
in training for the fire dept.
All at once.
Amazing athlete - also taking supplements & used steroids in her bodybuilding past --- or in our language - nutes.
She had a distinct moustache, and a rough, contralto voice as well as other traits (not getting too personal with an old friend's details here!).
I'm still very new, but sometimes when I read some of these recipes I'm reminded of bodybuilders and their roid regimens and I have to wonder if hermaphrodites could bethe result edit - partially caused by pushing plants too hard in any medium?
re: I worked with a woman who was:
an awarded bodybuilder
a private personal trainer from 6am-8am
a dancer in a big 30 lbs fuzzy suit (kid's show I worked on)
in training for the fire dept.
All at once.
Amazing athlete - also taking supplements & used steroids in her bodybuilding past --- or in our language - nutes.
She had a distinct moustache, and a rough, contralto voice as well as other traits (not getting too personal with an old friend's details here!).
I'm still very new, but sometimes when I read some of these recipes I'm reminded of bodybuilders and their roid regimens and I have to wonder if hermaphrodites could be
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ApexseasOG
Well-Known Member
Extreme stress can cause hermaphroditism. Hermaphroditism ,in cannabis at least, is a result of a survival mechanism. In my experience though, I have never had a plant herm because of “nute burn”. Regardless of that, your tea recipe is not meant to “feed” the plant but rather feed the microbes in the soil (or at least that’s my understanding of how teas should be used). If anything will burn your plants will be the soil and the nutrients it contains. Hope that helps.
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
Considerably, thanks!
--- I'm in 5g fabric / FFOF with 1 top dress, and another to come in a week or two.
No nutes at all, 7/7 very healthy females, 52 days from seed.
Plan A is to top dress FFOF only through this grow so that I know what the soil can do before I get weird with it.
Plan B is to top dress 3/7 girls FFOF only; and top dress the remaining 4 girls FFOF + 1/4 strength Dr Earth Flower Girl, to see if there is a noticeable difference.
ApexseasOG
Well-Known Member
What I’ve learned over the years is to be patient and to keep it simple. I’m still learning about organics but it depends on your base soil and your strain. From what I’ve gathered autos for example don’t need a lot of food and a good base soil is all you really need and plain water. Photos on the other hand might need some replenishing to the bacterial life late in flower to help access those nutrients left in the soil. So to summarize, it depends on what base soil you have and what kind of cannabis you’re growing to make a proper assessment. Either way just keep it simple and be patient; I find those are the two most valuable techniques a grower can have.
Skewbong
Well-Known Member
I can say from experience that I have grown in dirt for about 10 years, and I'm just in veg for my first dwc. I run the same clone, and I've never seen it grow this fast, ever. So bushy, green and thick. I know I'm new to hydro, but ive had more issues with DWC, and I know its my lack of experience, no biggie because I'm accountable to what I did. It's been really fun but I prefer dirt, only because It's what I'm better at and i haven't had an issue since my first grow. Not to sound self righteous because I would still get minor nute burn experimenting while still gaining experience.
Not stealing your thread @Darknes01. Just wondering if i can get a quick answer from the dwc pros. If this is stepping out of line, please let me know.
I'm very curious to see How big I can get a single plant. Does anyone know approximately the max size plant you can grow in a 5 gal dwc? Obviously once the roots fill the bucket, lol, but in general, max veg size before switch?
Not stealing your thread @Darknes01. Just wondering if i can get a quick answer from the dwc pros. If this is stepping out of line, please let me know.
I'm very curious to see How big I can get a single plant. Does anyone know approximately the max size plant you can grow in a 5 gal dwc? Obviously once the roots fill the bucket, lol, but in general, max veg size before switch?
ApexseasOG
Well-Known Member
I've done DWC as well and I believe that has more to do with genetics than anything else. Bucket size, medium, nutrients, and lights do play an important role to maximize genetic potential but imo genetics by themselves rules the outcome. You can have a perfect setup and if your genetics say she'll be short and bushy then she'll be short and bushy. You can manipulate (to an extent) it's height, size and shape with LST, topping, and other techniques but it's genetics will also limit the effectiveness of those techniques as well. Just like us humans, plants also have certain traits limited in their genome; we have a max height we will reach no matter how good we eat or how much basketball we play. Hope it helps.I can say from experience that I have grown in dirt for about 10 years, and I'm just in veg for my first dwc. I run the same clone, and I've never seen it grow this fast, ever. So bushy, green and thick. I know I'm new to hydro, but ive had more issues with DWC, and I know its my lack of experience, no biggie because I'm accountable to what I did. It's been really fun but I prefer dirt, only because It's what I'm better at and i haven't had an issue since my first grow. Not to sound self righteous because I would still get minor nute burn experimenting while still gaining experience.
Not stealing your thread @Darknes01. Just wondering if i can get a quick answer from the dwc pros. If this is stepping out of line, please let me know.
I'm very curious to see How big I can get a single plant. Does anyone know approximately the max size plant you can grow in a 5 gal dwc? Obviously once the roots fill the bucket, lol, but in general, max veg size before switch?
Darknes01
Well-Known Member
I have done a few rounds in RDWC and i gotta say i love the ease of growing in it vs soil, im talking about the day to day part of things.I can say from experience that I have grown in dirt for about 10 years, and I'm just in veg for my first dwc. I run the same clone, and I've never seen it grow this fast, ever. So bushy, green and thick. I know I'm new to hydro, but ive had more issues with DWC, and I know its my lack of experience, no biggie because I'm accountable to what I did. It's been really fun but I prefer dirt, only because It's what I'm better at and i haven't had an issue since my first grow. Not to sound self righteous because I would still get minor nute burn experimenting while still gaining experience.
Not stealing your thread @Darknes01. Just wondering if i can get a quick answer from the dwc pros. If this is stepping out of line, please let me know.
I'm very curious to see How big I can get a single plant. Does anyone know approximately the max size plant you can grow in a 5 gal dwc? Obviously once the roots fill the bucket, lol, but in general, max veg size before switch?
Few examples, I dont have to water every 2 to 3 days, I change water for a 32 site grow setup once every 7 days and it takes me no more then an hour and thats me just waiting around for the water to drain and refill then waiting for my auto dosing pumps to put back the nuts then im off to what i was doing with my life ( and between the water changes i have an auto top off setup that refills with plain water).
Now regarding growth, I can defiantly tell u that it grows much bigger and faster in rdwc vs soil but does it equate much higher yields? im going to say probably not too much, as @ApexseasOG mentioned it comes down to genetics and overall setup but what i would say is that getting to the plants max potential is much easier once you understand rdwc.
current example, i vegged from clones for 30 days and my plants are about 20 to 24" in height and added a new system so as i went out and bought teen clones that are about the same height as mine to flip to flower at the same time. side by side comparison the clones i vegged in rdwc are no joke at least 2 to 3x bigger and bushier then the teens i purchased.
I love tracking data and with RDWC i know exactly what my plants are doing on a daily basis, meaning, I have a bluelab ec ph in my res showing me the current stats at all times, few times a day i look at the ppm and ph and can easily tell my plants status by those numbers, for example, my ppm was 800 the day before and during a 24hr period it dropped to 690ppm meaning they are eating and drinking and plants look happy. after a while u get a sense of what your plants should be eating per day and in rdwc its easy to spot issues if the numbers are not moving the way they should be.
I can go on forever on how much i prefer rdwc vs soil but i guess everyone gets used to their system and thinks its the best ( maybe im in that stat now? lol)
Skewbong
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for the info @ApexseasOG , @Darknes01. Great knowledge. I know the genetics of my mother, and she can grow like a mofo, as I've grown the same plant many times from seed, but I inadvertently pheno'd her from a batch and kept her as my mother plant.
This last grow, just weighed this morning, absolutely smashed the weight compared to the other one I was growing. I was growing big bud and bubblicious. All 5 were in 5 gal fabric pots, 2 BB, 3 bubble. Genetics are soooo crucial, i agree 100000%. I fed them the exact same nutes and got a PALTRY 1.5 grams from the big bud...it sucked, but bubblicious came in at a whopping 11.5 ounces from 308 watts. MARS TSW2000.
BUBBLICIOUS is what I'm running in my dwc, and I know the amount of root mass is relative to bud production, I just don't want to run out of bucket space. Oh well, ill give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again growmies!!! I'll post some pics in a bit...we all like bud porn
This last grow, just weighed this morning, absolutely smashed the weight compared to the other one I was growing. I was growing big bud and bubblicious. All 5 were in 5 gal fabric pots, 2 BB, 3 bubble. Genetics are soooo crucial, i agree 100000%. I fed them the exact same nutes and got a PALTRY 1.5 grams from the big bud...it sucked, but bubblicious came in at a whopping 11.5 ounces from 308 watts. MARS TSW2000.
BUBBLICIOUS is what I'm running in my dwc, and I know the amount of root mass is relative to bud production, I just don't want to run out of bucket space. Oh well, ill give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again growmies!!! I'll post some pics in a bit...we all like bud porn
Darknes01
Well-Known Member
are you running an rdwc or dwc ? if your running an rdwc then if ur roots get out of hand they will clog up your return lines and cause flooding lol. anyway u can always do some minor root trimming if its gotten out of hand alreadyThank you so much for the info @ApexseasOG , @Darknes01. Great knowledge. I know the genetics of my mother, and she can grow like a mofo, as I've grown the same plant many times from seed, but I inadvertently pheno'd her from a batch and kept her as my mother plant.
This last grow, just weighed this morning, absolutely smashed the weight compared to the other one I was growing. I was growing big bud and bubblicious. All 5 were in 5 gal fabric pots, 2 BB, 3 bubble. Genetics are soooo crucial, i agree 100000%. I fed them the exact same nutes and got a PALTRY 1.5 grams from the big bud...it sucked, but bubblicious came in at a whopping 11.5 ounces from 308 watts. MARS TSW2000.
BUBBLICIOUS is what I'm running in my dwc, and I know the amount of root mass is relative to bud production, I just don't want to run out of bucket space. Oh well, ill give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again growmies!!! I'll post some pics in a bit...we all like bud porn
Skewbong
Well-Known Member
Just a single 5 gal dwc.are you running an rdwc or dwc ? if your running an rdwc then if ur roots get out of hand they will clog up your return lines and cause flooding lol. anyway u can always do some minor root trimming if its gotten out of hand already
EvilScotsm@n
Well-Known Member
I'm a hydro grower from day 1 and will never change for lots of reasons.
I'll never deny that a properly done, organic soil grow will provide a cleaner, tastier smoke.
I provide an organic grower with cuttings and there's no question. You can tell it was grown organically. Fuckin lovely stuff.
But in terms of yield vs time and strength I'll vote hydro every time.
Can drop autos at over a pound in hydro quite easily. I can teach a monkey how to do it.
It can also be done in soil but you need to be next level, Jedi master material to pull it off.
Takes a lot more knowledge and a lot more skill to get hydro results in soil.
To do it in hydro though your just following numbers on sticks like a simpleton.
Number on stick goes up add more water.
Number on stick goes down add more nutes.
Not much else to it really. Can just set it and forget it once you figure out how to dose properly.
I'll never deny that a properly done, organic soil grow will provide a cleaner, tastier smoke.
I provide an organic grower with cuttings and there's no question. You can tell it was grown organically. Fuckin lovely stuff.
But in terms of yield vs time and strength I'll vote hydro every time.
Can drop autos at over a pound in hydro quite easily. I can teach a monkey how to do it.
It can also be done in soil but you need to be next level, Jedi master material to pull it off.
Takes a lot more knowledge and a lot more skill to get hydro results in soil.
To do it in hydro though your just following numbers on sticks like a simpleton.
Number on stick goes up add more water.
Number on stick goes down add more nutes.
Not much else to it really. Can just set it and forget it once you figure out how to dose properly.
Darknes01
Well-Known Member
Real life dwc issues lol,
Some how F'in gnat's got into my room and infested 12 of my plants, they lay eggs in the Rockwool,now after multiple h2o2 rinses, sticky pads I think I might of won but plants are not eating at all, 2 days and ppm is exactly the same (in my setup, with just plain water auto top off) if plants are eating my ppm drops.
Very sad right now, don't know what to do
Some how F'in gnat's got into my room and infested 12 of my plants, they lay eggs in the Rockwool,now after multiple h2o2 rinses, sticky pads I think I might of won but plants are not eating at all, 2 days and ppm is exactly the same (in my setup, with just plain water auto top off) if plants are eating my ppm drops.
Very sad right now, don't know what to do
The biggest advantage to hydro I see besides a bit bigger yield per crop is that if you knock a couple weeks off a cycle then by the end of the year that's one whole crop.
DWC or RDWC is cool and does veg super big plants super fast. I ran dwc for years but when scaling up it's kinda a pain so went to coco. I treat this like a business in a way so losing a crop just won't work for me. That's what scares me about rdwc. Too many failure points that can make you lose a crop and kinda expensive for the initial set up. Also it's a pain to veg in one area and move to another for RDWC so a lot of guys end up vegging in flowering room for a bit and if you start taking weeks away from a flower room by the end of the year that's a lost run.
I have changed a lot of guys minds about hydro bud not smelling or being as good. It's all about only giving the plants what they need not pushing 2000ppm just cause the plants aren't showing adverse reactions.
EDIT: just thought of something else that hydro growers do that might effect some growers taste is that they recirculate their water and prob don't change it out enough. When I did dwc and didn't do frequent water changes the buds still came out really good, I can't say for sure of the taste quality it's been 13 years ago. It was better than anything around me back then, but I'd say my dtw coco is better.
DWC or RDWC is cool and does veg super big plants super fast. I ran dwc for years but when scaling up it's kinda a pain so went to coco. I treat this like a business in a way so losing a crop just won't work for me. That's what scares me about rdwc. Too many failure points that can make you lose a crop and kinda expensive for the initial set up. Also it's a pain to veg in one area and move to another for RDWC so a lot of guys end up vegging in flowering room for a bit and if you start taking weeks away from a flower room by the end of the year that's a lost run.
I have changed a lot of guys minds about hydro bud not smelling or being as good. It's all about only giving the plants what they need not pushing 2000ppm just cause the plants aren't showing adverse reactions.
EDIT: just thought of something else that hydro growers do that might effect some growers taste is that they recirculate their water and prob don't change it out enough. When I did dwc and didn't do frequent water changes the buds still came out really good, I can't say for sure of the taste quality it's been 13 years ago. It was better than anything around me back then, but I'd say my dtw coco is better.
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Skewbong
Well-Known Member
As promised...big jars are bubblicious, small jars are big bud. Firs bud is bubblicious, and second is big bud. I just grabbed 2 random buds to pose for the picture.Thank you so much for the info @ApexseasOG , @Darknes01. Great knowledge. I know the genetics of my mother, and she can grow like a mofo, as I've grown the same plant many times from seed, but I inadvertently pheno'd her from a batch and kept her as my mother plant.
This last grow, just weighed this morning, absolutely smashed the weight compared to the other one I was growing. I was growing big bud and bubblicious. All 5 were in 5 gal fabric pots, 2 BB, 3 bubble. Genetics are soooo crucial, i agree 100000%. I fed them the exact same nutes and got a PALTRY 1.5 grams from the big bud...it sucked, but bubblicious came in at a whopping 11.5 ounces from 308 watts. MARS TSW2000.
BUBBLICIOUS is what I'm running in my dwc, and I know the amount of root mass is relative to bud production, I just don't want to run out of bucket space. Oh well, ill give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again growmies!!! I'll post some pics in a bit...we all like bud porn
Bushbaby11
Well-Known Member
Hydro will piss all over soil everytime, regarding same set up, temps etc
Hydroponics produces huge plants, you can do in soil too but hydro vs soil id go hydro all day long if you know what you're doing, enough oxygen, nutes and make sure you're ph is in check
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Maybe for yield.... but potency, taste, smell....nah
Bushbaby11
Well-Known Member
Majority of people agree with that, me included but i have had people say they prefer hydro grown