Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I sometimes wonder how people who talk like you manage to get by. That was one shit stupid argument.
Just because we've fucked up our environment doesn't mean we have to accept that pipeline. logic fail
Is the Keystone cancelation a good thing?
- Thread starter Budley Doright
- Start date
Just because we've fucked up our environment doesn't mean we have to accept that pipeline. logic fail
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
Kind of off topic, I was on the way down to Somerset, KY today and had to pull into a surprise roadside inspection checkpoint at a weigh station (the weigh station was closed but DOT was pulling trucks in and checking us for insurance, up to date CDL, hours of service violations and pretty much whatever else they felt like looking for) and while I'm waiting for an officer, I happened to notice another officer was checking trucks fuel tanks with a white stick....WTF?
When he came to check my fuel tank, I asked him what that was all about, he said he's looking to see if anyone is using off road diesel (it's dyed red and exempt from certain taxes). What the hell lol, fucking scamming truck drivers.
Hey here's some pics in Kentucky on the way here. I'm just chilling in the truck at some mom n pop truck stop sipping on a Bud Light, going to go to sleep pretty soon
Kdoggy
Well-Known Member
No i just dont live on fairy dust unlike yourself. Face it we need oil , americas thirsty and your going to get it somewhere. Get your head out of the sand...or is that where you want the oil from going forward. Until you no longer use anything made from oil you need pipelines sorry.
doublejj
Well-Known Member
if we quit subsidizing the fossil fuel industry and invest in green energy we can cut the pipeline....time to move on from oil/coal.
Kdoggy
Well-Known Member
I hope thats the solution just seems green isnt as green as they make it out to be. Everything we make has a cost and how can we know the true costs because governments just love to hear green and throw our tax dollars at it. Id like to see more thermal were sitting on a fireball that we cant harness very well.
doublejj
Well-Known Member
solar has gotten vastly more efficient in recent years and continues to get better and better. Every new home built in California must have solar. Its measures like this that will turn the tide.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
You seem to be attempting to read my mind (thought process) while lacking a mind..... irony right!
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Another logic fail.
Just because I drive a car doesn't mean I have to accept that pipeline. Try to say something that makes sense.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What are you trying to say? "Green isn't green" wtf? Is your second sentence some sort of economic statement? "mumble mumble costs mumble true costs mumble mumble government mumble mumble TAXES". What are you trying to say? Geothermal has the ability to cover about 10% of our energy needs, btw.
printer
Well-Known Member
And I am all for figuring it out. I am a geek, I read a lot, I could not care one bit for hockey, football, games people pay adults millions of dollars to play. But I am the minority, them the majority. At work you are more likely to hear people talking about the score last night than how we are going to achieve an acceptable life for all people on the planet. Moving things to volcanoes only makes them garbage dumps and you end up using fuel to get it all there. and there are not all that many active ones. We need to figure out how to get our garbage into a subduction zone where one tectonic plate moves under the other. Still will cost fuel to get the stuff there. Maybe just high value garbage like nuclear. The added heat to the core would barely be detectable. Might even solve our energy problems.
printer
Well-Known Member
It is a good thing as far as cars exploding. The only other problem is is seeping into the environment and sticking to stuff. There was some work done in order to make it into pucks. So rather than a sticky liquid they could be moved in hopper cars. If there is a derailment they bring in a front end loaded and guys with shovels to clean up the mess.Yes I’m aware of the type of oil that was transported and where it originated, it swings through my city. If your alluding to the fact tar sands oil is a good thing. you may want to take a trip through the area if you haven’t, it’s quite the eye opener. Also chat with the indigenous people down stream of the operations, it’s heartbreaking that we do that to the people for money and power. All oil extraction is raping the land and needs to stop. A big start to replacements would be to charge what the actual cost of the whole process including remediation (if even possible) is.
So you do realize there might be an answer to the streams where coho salmon have been dying off (up to 90%) that run close to roadways? They finally figured out than an additive in the tires to make them last longer and increase mileage is toxic to them. The indigenous people used to catch the fish for thousands of years. We could get rid of the roads. The cities and farms really are in the way for the buffallo herds to make a comeback on the prairies. You would be hard pressed to find a place 'White Man' built something that did not harm our native friends. Where I live the land was the traditional land of four or five bands.
The oceans are awash with plastic fibers from our synthetic clothes. Every time you wash them bits are released. Could wear cotton. But cotton is a thirsty crop and sucks up water that would go down to the water table. We can go on and on. Our society is not benign to the environment. And I can keep going with almost any product we make. The electronics you are using now. Electronic manufacturing seems like a clean product until you dig down into how the stuff is made. Everything has a cost.
printer
Well-Known Member
Green isn't green as in the dam making hydroelectric power leaches mercury out of the land it flooded (usually on indiginous land, messes up their fishing). The vegetation that rots makes methane. The downstream land may have relied on flood and drought cycles to make it fertile and the controlled release may muck that all up. The obvious one of fish spawning.
So I looked up geothermal solving 10% of our energy needs. I could not quite find that anywhere.
printer
Well-Known Member
Hey, ship it by rail. More CO2 up in the air.
printer
Well-Known Member
I scrounged for rocks at some roadway cuts like this out in cottage country. Walking at the side of the road, there were the remains of deer every twenty feet.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Yes everything has a cost your right? So keep digging up the land and injecting chemicals into the ground because everything has a cost? I just think that a bigger effort could be made to reduce and eventually end the need for oil, I know, it’ll probably never happen but I can hope
. A start would, as I’ve said before, make it available but at its true cost and that includes remediation costs and no subsidies and tax breaks. Offer those to carbon neutral sources. But I digress, this is about a pipeline and sadly I doubt eliminating that will have any effect on the issue at hand and that is global warming.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That would be: "10% IF we have some technical break-throughs".
How Geothermal Energy Works
Learn how heat from the Earth is converted into electricity in this comprehensive overview, including a discussion of the geothermal resource, its environmental and societal impacts, and its potential for future expansion.
An MIT study estimated that the United States has the potential to develop 44,000 MWs of geothermal capacity by 2050 by coproducing geothermal electricity at oil and gas fields—primarily in the Southeast and southern Plains states. The study projected that such advanced geothermal systems could supply 10 percent of U.S. baseload electricity by 2050, given R&D and deployment over the next 10 years
Hydro-power has too large of a footprint on the environment of sensitive areas. I'm no fan of it for that reason. Also, I don't want that pipeline for the same reason. If rail is unsafe then make it safer. I oppose nuclear energy too. To me, oil and all fossil fuels are just stop gap energy sources until we get our act together on a combination of sources, that would include solar, wind, tidal, ocean waves, geothermal. . Energy supply is only one part of the solution. Carbon neutral society means changing how we live, work and play. Also changes in how we deliver and manage energy delivery. I'd rather we invest in that than the effing pipeline.
The following may be dated but I think it does a pretty good job of breaking down the potential for different energy solutions:
Sustainable Energy — without the hot air David JC MacKay
printer
Well-Known Member
As I said earlier, my trade was in the resource extraction/manufacturing sector. So I have a good idea that everything costs. Even sustainable farming is a concern. One of the first sayings of my trade was something along the lines of "The best solution to pollution is dilution." When first thought of it was if you could spread it around until it does not account for much the problem is solved. But by the time I was in college it was more that we needed to get it down to harmless levels. And along with getting the process down to lower costs and create the greatest efficiency the other side of the coin was to manage the waste products.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yep, yep, yep,Yes everything has a cost your right? So keep digging up the land and injecting chemicals into the ground because everything has a cost? I just think that a bigger effort could be made to reduce and eventually end the need for oil, I know, it’ll probably never happen but I can hope
The price of energy should include the cost of dealing with the waste. A car, for example, it spews its waste into the air as if that's the end of it.