Is the Rev full of shit about humic and fulvic acids?
- Thread starter Buggins
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scroglodyte
Well-Known Member
some people eat humic and/or fulvic as a supplement. does kill their microbes.
FR33MASON
Active Member
A highly acidic environment will inhibit microbial growth. But we are talking pH levels of 6 or lower, depending on overall environmental conditons. But it is the fluctuation in pH levels that can wreak havoc on your soil's ecosystem. Most organisims depend on a certain homogenous environment and an unstable factor in that environment can but not allways, cause everything from retarded root development to in this case, the bio-generating effects of your soil.
The less energy an organisim has to use to continually adapt to a changing environment, the more energy it will store for other functions such as flowering.
I run aquarims and ponds with peat moss, mopani, and plants which provide plenty of humic and tannic acids for my water and I have allways had awesome results with all my plants all through out my home and garden. My soil sits around a pH of 6.5 - 6.8.
The less energy an organisim has to use to continually adapt to a changing environment, the more energy it will store for other functions such as flowering.
I run aquarims and ponds with peat moss, mopani, and plants which provide plenty of humic and tannic acids for my water and I have allways had awesome results with all my plants all through out my home and garden. My soil sits around a pH of 6.5 - 6.8.
Buddy Hemphill
Active Member
Nullis
Moderator
I haven't read any Skunk recently but I've read plenty of previous issues and I'd say the magazine is pretty decent. Rev usually doesn't talk much bullshit. Without reading the exact article in question it's hard to say anything. I'd have to read it myself to judge whether or not it seems to me your perspective of it is appropriate (maybe you mis-understood).
The chelates you want to avoid are the synthetic ones (EDTA, DTPA) which are in virtually all of the liquid Fox Farm's nutrients (except Big Bloom). I can't say what too much humic\fulvic acid does, but I've used it moderately and that has worked for me.
The chelates you want to avoid are the synthetic ones (EDTA, DTPA) which are in virtually all of the liquid Fox Farm's nutrients (except Big Bloom). I can't say what too much humic\fulvic acid does, but I've used it moderately and that has worked for me.
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
Anytime you resort to using something in a bottle, you are moving away from the fundamentals of organic agriculture. That being said, a TON of companies make high quality organic products that are sold in bottles. In my opinion, I am perfectly comfortable buying and using simple products from well known manufacturers, for example Maxicrop seaweed, or organic molasses.
However, when it comes to the products sold in hydro stores labeled as "organic" with long ingredient lists, containing multiple animal by-products, emulsions and extracts from who knows where, and under what conditions... I would not use these, and in reality they are far away from feeding the soil (real organics), as opposed to feeding the plant.
Its kinda sad to think that we all are trying to grow our medicine organically, and the products we use to do this are being produced by destroying the planet we all call home.
Its just better to make your own fertilizers as much as possible, and in all honesty who cares if your smoke could have been 1-3% stronger because you bought this and this and this and this...
...yeah dude plastics and factories pumping out fish juice from an over fished ocean is DANK! (sarcasm)
Time to start experimenting with fertilizers of the future (and the ancient past...)
Real Organics, True Sustainability.
Plants and the Planet.
Peace and compost.
However, when it comes to the products sold in hydro stores labeled as "organic" with long ingredient lists, containing multiple animal by-products, emulsions and extracts from who knows where, and under what conditions... I would not use these, and in reality they are far away from feeding the soil (real organics), as opposed to feeding the plant.
Its kinda sad to think that we all are trying to grow our medicine organically, and the products we use to do this are being produced by destroying the planet we all call home.
Its just better to make your own fertilizers as much as possible, and in all honesty who cares if your smoke could have been 1-3% stronger because you bought this and this and this and this...
...yeah dude plastics and factories pumping out fish juice from an over fished ocean is DANK! (sarcasm)
Time to start experimenting with fertilizers of the future (and the ancient past...)
Real Organics, True Sustainability.
Plants and the Planet.
Peace and compost.
Buddy Hemphill
Active Member
Maxicrop liquid has CHLORINE in it....
bad shit!
Chlorine WILL KILL your bennies. This isnt even debatable.
Buddy Hemphill
Active Member
from maxicrops site
[h=6]Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed[/h][h=2]Directions[/h]Soaking Seeds and BulbsSoak overnight in solution of one capful to one gallon of water. After planting, water with solution of one capful to one gallon of water.
SeedlingsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water each week.
Cuttings and RootingsStand in heavy solution overnight using two capfuls to one gallon of water. Water with solution of one capful to one gallon of water.
Vegetables, Fruits, Outdoor Plants, Flowers and Potted PlantsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water every week.
LawnSpray solution of two capfuls to one gallon of water (to cover 1,000 ft.) per month (minimum five applications per season).
Indoor PlantsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water every week.
[h=2]0 - 0 - 1[/h]Guaranteed Analysis
Soluble Potash (K2O): 1.0%
Derived from Ascophyllum Nodosum Seaweed
Chlorine (Cl) not more than 1.0%
[h=6]Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed[/h][h=2]Directions[/h]Soaking Seeds and BulbsSoak overnight in solution of one capful to one gallon of water. After planting, water with solution of one capful to one gallon of water.
SeedlingsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water each week.
Cuttings and RootingsStand in heavy solution overnight using two capfuls to one gallon of water. Water with solution of one capful to one gallon of water.
Vegetables, Fruits, Outdoor Plants, Flowers and Potted PlantsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water every week.
LawnSpray solution of two capfuls to one gallon of water (to cover 1,000 ft.) per month (minimum five applications per season).
Indoor PlantsWater with solution of one capful to one gallon of water every week.
[h=2]0 - 0 - 1[/h]Guaranteed Analysis
Soluble Potash (K2O): 1.0%
Derived from Ascophyllum Nodosum Seaweed
Chlorine (Cl) not more than 1.0%
Buggins
Active Member
Ok, so my scanner refuses to produce an image that's legible, so I'll just type out some direct quotes from the article, and if you're interested, I urge you to pick up this month's issue of Skunk magazine and read for yourself.
Here are some highlights. Remember, this is all in reference to organic liquid nutes, and not synthetics. Nobody debates the fact synthetics will hurt organic living soil mixes.
Some direct quotes from "The Rev" in this issues...
"Some mellow chelation happens when you use molasses in a true living organic tea: again, all good at those levels. But whenever you pour on the chelation acids, especially ascorbic acid (vitamin c), humic acid, and fulvic acid, you do some serious harm to the microbial bio-equilibrium of your living container mix by killing many bacteria throughout"
"When you use a regular regiment of highly chelated liquid organic nutrients, in containers, I call that "Soup Style" organics growing. If you try and use that philosophy of force feeding (chelating) the plants using organic acids like humic, fulvic, and ascorbic acids, in a living container soil mix, you will severely damage the whole bio-equilibrium and destroy all the supernatural qualities your livings soil mix would otherwise be capable of."
"When you are growing true living organics style using a living soil mix in your containers, then you DO NOT (emphasis the author's) want to use any heavily chelated liquid organic nutrients on that soil mix, ever, not even once.
"I hear about this problem...the plants seem to starve and yields hurt fairly badly. You are either adding raw phosphorous, or you are killing your microlife with straight chelated liquid nutrient additions..."
"I don't think HPS bulbs work very well with a living soil mix and cannabis when it comes to growing, and especially late flowering. What you are looking for here is a mini version of natural sunlight in your growing lamps, however, since that isn't possible yet, I have found Eye Blue Metal Halide spectrum to be the closest. And it works awesome for flowering; and growing too, when using a living soil mix like true living organics preaches. If you feel the need to use a HPS light, get one that is more balanced with enhanced blue spectrum elements".
Now please don't anyone think this is an attack on the author or the author's philosophy. I'm simply questioning it because it goes against a lot of the principals of organic cannabis cultivation that I've been learning recently, and I want to know if this is sound advice, or just the ramblings of a guy trying to carve out a niche for himself in the cannabis literature world by being different from conventional wisdom. I tend to think it's not the latter, but I can't say it's the former either.
What do you all think?
Here are some highlights. Remember, this is all in reference to organic liquid nutes, and not synthetics. Nobody debates the fact synthetics will hurt organic living soil mixes.
Some direct quotes from "The Rev" in this issues...
"Some mellow chelation happens when you use molasses in a true living organic tea: again, all good at those levels. But whenever you pour on the chelation acids, especially ascorbic acid (vitamin c), humic acid, and fulvic acid, you do some serious harm to the microbial bio-equilibrium of your living container mix by killing many bacteria throughout"
"When you use a regular regiment of highly chelated liquid organic nutrients, in containers, I call that "Soup Style" organics growing. If you try and use that philosophy of force feeding (chelating) the plants using organic acids like humic, fulvic, and ascorbic acids, in a living container soil mix, you will severely damage the whole bio-equilibrium and destroy all the supernatural qualities your livings soil mix would otherwise be capable of."
"When you are growing true living organics style using a living soil mix in your containers, then you DO NOT (emphasis the author's) want to use any heavily chelated liquid organic nutrients on that soil mix, ever, not even once.
"I hear about this problem...the plants seem to starve and yields hurt fairly badly. You are either adding raw phosphorous, or you are killing your microlife with straight chelated liquid nutrient additions..."
"I don't think HPS bulbs work very well with a living soil mix and cannabis when it comes to growing, and especially late flowering. What you are looking for here is a mini version of natural sunlight in your growing lamps, however, since that isn't possible yet, I have found Eye Blue Metal Halide spectrum to be the closest. And it works awesome for flowering; and growing too, when using a living soil mix like true living organics preaches. If you feel the need to use a HPS light, get one that is more balanced with enhanced blue spectrum elements".
Now please don't anyone think this is an attack on the author or the author's philosophy. I'm simply questioning it because it goes against a lot of the principals of organic cannabis cultivation that I've been learning recently, and I want to know if this is sound advice, or just the ramblings of a guy trying to carve out a niche for himself in the cannabis literature world by being different from conventional wisdom. I tend to think it's not the latter, but I can't say it's the former either.
What do you all think?
Buddy Hemphill
Active Member
tuh tuh tarded
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
Nah, it cannot be dissected that simply. The Rev's words can be mistrewn here.
I do not really have the energy to analyze the entire thing, but I do happen to agree with a few things here. For one, the Horti Eye MH is a pretty nice bulb, and provides a very similar spectrum to natural sunlight. Also, his word choices of 'heavily chelated' and such are on point.
I believe what he is attempting to say is to focus on creating a thriving, living soil food web in the most natural way you can(whilst still being indoors) without the additional aspects of adding 'anything from a bottle'.
Though I do not agree with everything he has said, I tend to see the argument he is attempting to convey here and I like the direction he is trying to lead people...focusing on the most natural way of growing possible.
But that's just my own humble opinion, and this coming from someone who originally flamed 'The Rev' when I originally heard such blasphemy
Kronron
Member
I wonder if he is talking about more the additives associated with the product not the ingredients themselves.. I use a soluable form of humic/fulvic amino acids blended with powdered kelp, and will continue too.. Humic and fulvics are a must for organics, seems to make the nutes more availible. I also use in my aact teas and I would think if it kills microbs my tea bucket wouldnt be bubbling over ..lol.. Im sure his point was just misunderstood? dunno
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
No, he really is not wrong about everything he stated....it is just wildly blown out of context.
He was careful in how he chose his words...and those word choices should not be overlooked (such things as "pour on" and "heavily chelated". He does not say that humics and fulvics are an absolute no-no, he is merely saying they should be used in lesser amounts...because in higher/extremwe concentrations it will kill off most of the microbial life...and he is right about that.
Go dump a bottle of Hygrozyme in a gallon of water and water your plants...I guaranteee you that you will have some major problems
He was careful in how he chose his words...and those word choices should not be overlooked (such things as "pour on" and "heavily chelated". He does not say that humics and fulvics are an absolute no-no, he is merely saying they should be used in lesser amounts...because in higher/extremwe concentrations it will kill off most of the microbial life...and he is right about that.
Go dump a bottle of Hygrozyme in a gallon of water and water your plants...I guaranteee you that you will have some major problems
Buggins
Active Member
No, he really is not wrong about everything he stated....it is just wildly blown out of context.
He was careful in how he chose his words...and those word choices should not be overlooked (such things as "pour on" and "heavily chelated". He does not say that humics and fulvics are an absolute no-no, he is merely saying they should be used in lesser amounts...because in higher/extremwe concentrations it will kill off most of the microbial life...and he is right about that.
Go dump a bottle of Hygrozyme in a gallon of water and water your plants...I guaranteee you that you will have some major problems
I don't know, that's not what I get from the article. Take this quote for example:
- If you try and use that philosophy of force feeding (chelating) the plants using organic acids like humic, fulvic, and ascorbic acids, in a living container soil mix, you will severely damage the whole bio-equilibrium and destroy all the supernatural qualities your livings soil mix would otherwise be capable of
Seems to me like he's saying if you use bottle organic nutes, it's a bad idea. And the fact that he repeats it so many times too, it's like he's trying to drive home the point that bottle nutes are not good, even if they're organic.
I've read and re-read the article many times, and I honestly don't think I'm taking anything out of context.
Buddy Hemphill
Active Member
Nah, it cannot be dissected that simply. The Rev's words can be mistrewn here.
I do not really have the energy to analyze the entire thing, but I do happen to agree with a few things here. For one, the Horti Eye MH is a pretty nice bulb, and provides a very similar spectrum to natural sunlight. Also, his word choices of 'heavily chelated' and such are on point.
I believe what he is attempting to say is to focus on creating a thriving, living soil food web in the most natural way you can(whilst still being indoors) without the additional aspects of adding 'anything from a bottle'.
Though I do not agree with everything he has said, I tend to see the argument he is attempting to convey here and I like the direction he is trying to lead people...focusing on the most natural way of growing possible.
But that's just my own humble opinion, and this coming from someone who originally flamed 'The Rev' when I originally heard such blasphemy
Yes it can!...lol..
You mean one of those $250 bulbs?...well hell yeah!!.. they should work good. But if you are gonna say "use MH in flower" maybe clarify using the most expensive bulb out there.
You can use stuff from a bottle and have a kick ass soil food web.
Is there something in that article thats NOT tuh tuh tarded?...lol.....jk
each to his own though!!!!